Did Samson Commit Suicide or Was It an Act of War?

The Narrow Way · Aug 2, 2021

(Not sure if I put this in the right place, if not, Mods, please move it.)
Sometimes people will use the story of Samson to support the teaching that you can commit suicide and not be lost.

I don't believe that Samson committed SUICIDE at all. The Israelites and the Philistines were CONSTANTLY in war...and Samson knew that if he could pull down those to foundation pillars the entire building would collapse and he would take out more Philistines at his death than in his entire lifetime.

Jdg 16:28 And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.

Jdg 16:29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Jdg 16:30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

What Samson did, was an ACT OF WAR, a selfless act of war, where he sacrificed his life for the good of his Country...his last words were his prayer to God to give him the strength to carry out the mission. And God heard his prayer.

God never helps anyone to commit suicide as suicide is NEVER His will for ANYONE. Suicide is SELF-MURDER, and the Bible is clear that there will be no MURDERERS in Heaven.

Jesus is my Superhero · Aug 2, 2021

A State religion will always excuse violence in service to the State, to even include suicide in the service of the State. The Reformation. Need I say more?

Judaism was always a State religion in the O.T. Look what happened at Masada, The destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. Two examples of suicide being acceptable in the service of a higher cause than self.

In the N.T. though, I don't recall Jesus turning to His sword bearer at any time and demand he slay those standing before Him because they didn't see things His way.
Jesus never made an excuse for violent behavior but always preached peace...even to death.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 2, 2021

Samson didn't commit suicide in the same way Jesus did not commit suicide. etc.

Sabertooth · Aug 2, 2021

"Suicide," by definition, is self-killing, but not necessarily self-murder.

There are really two questions here:

Will God forgive a Christian of a willful sin that they are unable to repent from?
Is every instance of suicide self-murder??

#1 brings us back to Eternal vs. Conditional Security, but I would not gamble with my Eternal standing on that question.

#2 is a little more nuanced.
Just as all acts of homicide are not murder, I believe that all acts of suicide are not murder.
I believe that there are six types of suicide:

wanton self-murder,
delusional self-murder,
self-sacrifice,
erroneous self-sacrifice,
negligent suicide &
"escape" suicide.

And one can be reckless for the same six reasons. That is, they might live, but death is a likely outcome.

#1 is the most commonly considered form of suicide. It violates the Fifth Commandment.
#2 is suicide that is induced by mental illness or psychotropic drugs.
#3 applies to Samson and the Saved soldier who jumps on a grenade to spare his friends [John 15:13]. (An unSaved soldier isn't prepared to meet his/her maker.) It is also the basis for the term, "suicide mission."
#4 is like #3 when it really isn't necessary.
#5 is when somebody doesn't think through the consequences of their actions. It can be due to an underdeveloped "executive function," etc.
#6 is suicide in the effort to escape acute pain. It is like jumping out of an elevated window while engulfed in flames.

The Bible only speaks clearly to #1 & #3. The verdict on the rest is not known (for Saved people) and will likely be Judged on a case-by-case basis.
(It really doesn't matter how you die, if you are not Saved.)

Ignatius the Kiwi · Aug 2, 2021

I take Samson's action to be a sacrifice rather than a suicide. He was not motivated like the suicide to take his own life, but rather the lives of the enemies of Israel. If that meant his own life had to end in the process then he was willing to pay that price for the security of his people and faithfulness to God's law.

Jesus is my Superhero said:
A State religion will always excuse violence in service to the State, to even include suicide in the service of the State. The Reformation. Need I say more?

Judaism was always a State religion in the O.T. Look what happened at Masada, The destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. Two examples of suicide being acceptable in the service of a higher cause than self.

In the N.T. though, I don't recall Jesus turning to His sword bearer at any time and demand he slay those standing before Him because they didn't see things His way.
Jesus never made an excuse for violent behavior but always preached peace...even to death.

All states in all times will justify and excuse violence in service to the state. Religion has nothing to do with it. In the New Testament I recall Jesus fashioning a whip out of cords to clear the money changers from the temple and Saint Paul affirming the authority of the Roman Empire to use the sword to discipline lawlessness and that it was for our own good.

Jesus is my Superhero · Aug 2, 2021

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
All states in all times will justify and excuse violence in service to the state. Religion has nothing to do with it. In the New Testament I recall Jesus fashioning a whip out of cords to clear the money changers from the temple and Saint Paul affirming the authority of the Roman Empire to use the sword to discipline lawlessness and that it was for our own good.

I understand that you're referencing positions of authority and I can agree with this aspect. But how can you say religion hasn't had anything to do violence? How can witch hunts such as what happened in Bamberg, Germany during the Reformation, or the Spanish inquisition be explained away outside of religion? Or, Calvin in Geneva?

Most of us do not hold positions of authority in government and therefor have no justification in performing or commanding acts of violence.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Aug 2, 2021

Jesus is my Superhero said:
I understand that you're referencing positions of authority and I can agree with this aspect. But how can you say religion hasn't had anything to do violence? How can witch hunts such as what happened in Bamberg, Germany during the Reformation, or the Spanish inquisition be explained away outside of religion? Or, Calvin in Geneva?

Most of us do not hold positions of authority in government and therefor have no justification in performing acts of violence.

Religion has much to do with violence. My only contention is that not all violence is illegitimate. I'm not of the opinion that it was wrong for the Spanish to reconquer Spain. Or that the Crusaders were wrong to take Jerusalem and seek to take Egypt as well.

Pacifism seems entirely at odds with the tradition of Christianity as a whole.

Jesus is my Superhero · Aug 2, 2021

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Pacifism seems entirely at odds with the tradition of Christianity as a whole.

This is the point I'm trying to make. A State religion will always justify violence against the other. This isn't the teachings of Jesus. His sermon on the Mt. opposes such action.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Aug 2, 2021

Jesus is my Superhero said:
This is the point I'm trying to make. A State religion will always justify violence against the other. This isn't the teachings of Jesus. His sermon on the Mt. opposes such action.

Well yes, of course. But any state entity will do as much, doesn't matter if the thing is religious or not.

As to what Jesus preached on the Sermon on the Mount, does that correspond to the way earthly governments are supposed to run or what we as individuals are to do? No government on Earth can be run by the principles of the Gospel. This does not mean Christians if they find themselves in a position of authority have to absolve themselves from the responsibility to rule or to take care of those directly under them.

So I don't understand this specific hostility towards state religion as such. If state religion is forbidden for the Christian, politics in general is forbidden to the Christian and if that is the case we leave our destinies in the hands of enemies who do not have our best interests or the faith at heart.

That's something historic Christianity thankfully didn't do.

Jesus is my Superhero · Aug 2, 2021

The whole world is under the sway of Satan. Remember how Satan was able to tempt Jesus in the wilderness with all the kingdoms of the world? If Satan couldn't deliver, it wouldn't have been a temptation.
Thus, all world governments are under the sway of the evil one and so are any State religions by definition. Jesus said to Pilate that His kingdom wasn't of this world. Do you recall His interrogation
by Pilate?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Aug 2, 2021

Jesus is my Superhero said:
The whole world is under the sway of Satan. Remember how Satan was able to tempt Jesus in the wilderness with all the kingdoms of the world? If Satan couldn't deliver, it wouldn't have been a temptation.
Thus, all world governments are under the sway of the evil one and so are any State religions by definition. Jesus said to Pilate that His kingdom wasn't of this world. Do you recall His interrogation
by Pilate?

I could conclude just as easily from this sort of interpretation that we are to be utterly Gnostic with regards to our actions and what matters is our spiritual or mental commitment to God more than physical actions mean to God. Which means we can do whatever we like in this body, all that matters is if we are spiritually committed to Christ.

It's an utterly platonic distinction and unless you're willing to advocate Monasticism or a complete Amish separation from the regular world, how then can you argue it is illicit for Christians to participate in the system and influence it in the ways they can?

If Christians are going to organize themselves into any sort of community then they are living in this world. They are putting rules and strictures into effect which are followed or not followed and can either result in praise or punishment for the sake of the Church. The lack of commitment to the rules or strictures leads to the disestablishment of the community and thus as we see Christian standards eroded in law in modern secular society we see the breakdown of Christianity in the Western world.

Governments are merely a secular extension of the community, of how humans choose interreact and regulate each other's behavior and evidently God has viewed as better to be under a government or some sort of authority than to be under none or have complete anarchy. It does not follow from the Gospel that Christians must abstain from participating in these systems.

Jesus is my Superhero · Aug 2, 2021

As Christians we are told to be in the world, but not of the world. We are also commanded to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. God is Love, plus all those fruits of the Spirit. Having a relationship with God is paramount through our High Priest Jesus Christ. Enjoy El Shaddai with all of your being and may the peace of Christ be comforting to you.

renniks · Aug 2, 2021

The Narrow Way said:
(Not sure if I put this in the right place, if not, Mods, please move it.)
Sometimes people will use the story of Samson to support the teaching that you can commit suicide and not be lost.

I don't believe that Samson committed SUICIDE at all. The Israelites and the Philistines were CONSTANTLY in war...and Samson knew that if he could pull down those to foundation pillars the entire building would collapse and he would take out more Philistines at his death than in his entire lifetime.

Jdg 16:28 And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.

Jdg 16:29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Jdg 16:30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

What Samson did, was an ACT OF WAR, a selfless act of war, where he sacrificed his life for the good of his Country...his last words were his prayer to God to give him the strength to carry out the mission. And God heard his prayer.

God never helps anyone to commit suicide as suicide is NEVER His will for ANYONE. Suicide is SELF-MURDER, and the Bible is clear that there will be no MURDERERS in Heaven.
View attachment 303590

Kinda seems like both to me. But then, you could say the same about Jesus, so Samson is in good company.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Aug 2, 2021

Jesus is my Superhero said:
As Christians we are told to be in the world, but not of the world. We are also commanded to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. God is Love, plus all those fruits of the Spirit. Having a relationship with God is paramount through our High Priest Jesus Christ. Enjoy El Shaddai with all of your being and may the peace of Christ be comforting to you.

Thank God the early Christians did not follow your conclusions.

Did Samson Commit Suicide or Was It an Act of War?

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