Christian Witches

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

TheWhat? said:
I almost died, literally, being drained of my life. I posted about it in another thread.

Where is the post? I didn't see it. Are you okay?

~bella

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
I understand all of that. Disenfranchisement was the primary reason I walked away. I was looking for something authentic and couldn't find it. It didn't exist elsewhere either.

I was agnostic and nearing atheism. The turning point wasn't a tradition or hidden message. It was love and a lot of time. The message is simple. The bloat is man's doing.

These days I live the questions. Why do I feel this way? What am I doing and what is serving? Things along lines. I probably wouldn't do that if I remained where I was. I'd be more accepting and less discriminating. It served a purpose.

~bella

Deconversions weird thiers a time in it that you realized you havn't really believed in a long time but never really accepted that yourself. It's diffrent from atheist to atheist but I had a hard time I really liked my religion. But once you declare yourself atheist it's kind of a battle you have to fight alone for a while.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

jacknife said:
Deconversions weird thiers a time in it that you realized you havn't really believed in a long time but never really accepted that yourself. It's diffrent from atheist to atheist but I had a hard time I really liked my religion. But once you declare yourself atheist it's kind of a battle you have to fight alone for a while.

You're going through the motions and doing what's familiar. It takes a lot of honesty to recognize you're 'dead'. The tree has withered and you're clueless.

Being awake is a continuum. The world lulls you to sleep and beckons you to close your eyes or play make believe to survive.

Rumi said, "don't go back to sleep." It takes awhile to understand what he meant and why applies today.

What did you like most about your religion?

~bella

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
You're going through the motions and doing what's familiar. It takes a lot of honesty to recognize you're 'dead'. The tree has withered and you're clueless.

Being awake is a continuum. The world lulls you to sleep and beckons you to close your eyes or play make believe to survive.

Rumi said, "don't go back to sleep." It takes awhile to understand what he meant and why applies today.

What did you like most about your religion?

~bella

I've been thinking about this and honestly? I miss the church. Not just the fellowship per say (they kinda ditched me before I even deconverted ) but it was this grand old building with these amazing stained glass windows i still look at them when I pass by.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

jacknife said:
I've been thinking about this and honestly? I miss the church. Not just the fellowship per say (they kinda ditched me before I even deconverted ) but it was this grand old building with these amazing stained glass windows i still look at them when I pass by.

That isn't strange. What do you associate with the physical space?

~bella

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
That isn't strange. What do you associate with the physical space?

~bella

Penny's.
EDIT. I should add onto that when I was a child goofing off at church my mother would throw a penny at me. I could never tell where they came from, but my mom would tell me that they were from God. And dumb kid that I was believed her.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

jacknife said:
Penny's.
EDIT. I should add onto that when I was a child goofing off at church my mother would throw a penny at me. I could never tell where they came from, but my mom would tell me that they were from God. And dumb kid that I was believed her.

How cute. That’s happy memory. No wonder you’re drawn to it.

~bella

Citizen of the Kingdom · Jul 31, 2021

There is scripture that says not how one sees God is how you will meet Him, but there is one that says how you judge is how you will be judged. Not sure if that’s the same thing or not.

Miles · Jul 31, 2021

Let's say I enjoy walking in the woods while pondering the meaning of life, and somebody tells me that I shouldn't because "That's what witches do". Should I stop? No. Witchcraft has no power over me, and changing my life around it would give witchcraft power where it has no right to be. I'm not going to call myself a witch, because I'm not one, but walking around in the woods while pondering the meaning of life is perfectly acceptable.

Although I find the idea of Christian Yoga to be a little odd, and don't practice it myself, I disagree with the notion that Christians who do so are worshiping pagan gods or anything of the sort. Yoga poses, and symbols like the pentagram, have no meaning to us as individuals other than the meanings that we assign to them. Not to mention that things like exercise, stretching, standing in particular poses, or whatever existed long before Yoga was a thing. Maybe call it something more descriptive and less potentially misleading.

jacknife said:
... the origins of the pentagram for example

This one is interesting, in part because the pentagram wasn't associated with Satanism until recently (the mid 20th century, if I'm not mistaken). It was long used in Christian culture, to symbolize the wounds of Christ and represent the star of Bethlehem. Pointing up or pointing down, the orientation didn't seem to matter. The pentagram, in various rotations, can be found in medieval Christian literature and on the walls of old church buildings. It also existed long before, representing various things through the years. Some people choose go assign it an occult meaning, but there's nothing inherently occult or unchristian about it.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
There is scripture that says not how one sees God is how you will meet Him, but there is one that says how you judge is how you will be judged. Not sure if that’s the same thing or not.

When she mentioned that I thought of the old adage, “we don’t see things as they are but how we are.” Moving beyond our interpretation in deference to His requires the Holy Spirit’s input.

Your connection to judgment is apropos. When we see as He does our judgment is clearer and aligned with the Holy One.

~bella

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

Miles said:
Let's say I enjoy walking in the woods while pondering the meaning of life, and somebody tells me that I shouldn't because "That's what witches do". Should I stop? No. Witchcraft has no power over me, and changing my life around it would give witchcraft power where it has no right to be. I'm not going to call myself a witch, because I'm not one, but walking around in the woods while pondering the meaning of life is perfectly acceptable.

Although I find the idea of Christian Yoga to be a little odd, and don't practice it myself, I disagree with the notion that Christians who do so are worshiping pagan gods or anything of the sort. Yoga poses, and symbols like the pentagram, have no meaning to us as individuals other than the meanings that we assign to them. Not to mention that things like exercise, stretching, standing in particular poses, or whatever existed long before Yoga was a thing. Maybe call it something more descriptive and less potentially misleading.

This one is interesting, in part because the pentagram wasn't associated with Satanism until recently (the mid 20th century, if I'm not mistaken). It was long used in Christian culture, to symbolize the wounds of Christ and represent the star of Bethlehem. Pointing up or pointing down, the orientation didn't seem to matter. The pentagram, in various rotations, can be found in medieval Christian literature and on the walls of old church buildings. It also existed long before, representing various things through the years. Some people choose go assign it an occult meaning, but there's nothing inherently occult or unchristian about it.

Yes! That's what i mean occult simply means hidden lots of intresting details such as that can be found through it's study. Occult isn't necessarily anti-Christian. It blew my mind when I learned that it had roots in Christianity.

Sketcher · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Christian Witches: New Age in the Church

I saw this on YouTube and thought I’d share it for others to chew on.

Lead me in your truth and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation; for you I wait all the day long. —Psalm 25:5

In terms of just the specifics she addressed in the video, I generally agree. From what I learned about a Christian missionary to people of an occult/New Age background, there are witches who call themselves Christian, but mainly because one or both of their parents went to church. And that label doesn't always stick, these people can be very fluid in terms of what they believe, practice, and identify as.

I would want to know how she differentiates "stretching" from "yoga". I agree that yoga is in fact united with Hinduism (which New Age is ultimately an outgrowth from), but I don't believe that demons can be summoned accidentally. I'm trying to sympathize with her in that Christians who try to have it both ways can end up playing with fire, but there has to be a delineation between occult practices and clean ones. She unfortunately didn't give one in that video.

Looking at their ministry's website, they do appear to have some beliefs that are simply wrong, and I have a sense that they are overly strict about some other things not mentioned. If we limit the scope to the video itself though, she is rightly calling out New Age beliefs and practices as wrong.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

Sketcher said:
In terms of just the specifics she addressed in the video, I generally agree. From what I learned about a Christian missionary to people of an occult/New Age background, there are witches who call themselves Christian, but mainly because one or both of their parents went to church. And that label doesn't always stick, these people can be very fluid in terms of what they believe, practice, and identify as.

Some people are eclectic and use Christianity as their pantheon. I've known a few like that.

I would want to know how she differentiates "stretching" from "yoga". I agree that yoga is in fact united with Hinduism (which New Age is ultimately an outgrowth from), but I don't believe that demons can be summoned accidentally. I'm trying to sympathize with her in that Christians who try to have it both ways can end up playing with fire, but there has to be a delineation between occult practices and clean ones. She unfortunately didn't give one in that video.

When you've crossed the line there's no going back. You're not innocent. You know the root and its akin to backsliding. But for those who haven't taken the leap its a little different. They aren't knowingly courting the demonic.

Her stance is more precautionary because of her background. I'm the same. There's a lot I don't touch for those reasons.

Looking at their ministry's website, they do appear to have some beliefs that are simply wrong, and I have a sense that they are overly strict about some other things not mentioned. If we limit the scope to the video itself though, she is rightly calling out New Age beliefs and practices as wrong.

My purpose of posting the video was to garner reflection. Sometimes we're too trusting. I'm not surprised by your stance. I expected it.

~bella

JustSomeBloke · Jul 31, 2021

Being a Christian often isn't easy. You pray, then you wait, then you repeat, sometimes for months or years on a single vexing issue. From that point of view, I can understand the appeal of being a witch. Finding a spell and using it must feel so much easier than praying, having faith that God will work all things for good, and waiting, sometimes for a very long time. Whereas if you're a witch, and the spell works, then the gratification could be almost instant. But there's a problem. If you're not praying to our heavenly father, then who or what is the power coming from? Who or what is fulfilling your spell? I believe there's a price to pay for having your spell fulfilled, and the price is that you have to sell your soul. As Jesus said, the gate is narrow, and few find it (Matthew 7:13-14). And Jesus was himself tempted, but resisted (Matthew 4:1-11). There's a proper procedure for bringing our troubles and needs to God, and it doesn't involve spells.

P.S. I don't see any issues with Yoga as a tool for improving fitness and flexibility, and although I've never tried it I'd be interested in having a go.

bèlla · Aug 1, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
But there's a problem. If you're not praying to our heavenly father, then who or what is the power coming from? Who or what is fulfilling your spell?

Few know its satan. They think they’re dealing with a benevolent force. They don’t believe they’re walking in darkness. They’ve taken a different path to God.

I believe there's a price to pay for having your spell fulfilled, and the price is that you have to sell your soul.

That’s a different matter. You don’t sell it haphazardly. A bargain is made and the person knows who they’re dealing with.

Whereas, spell-casting has 3 approaches: white, grey, and black. White is non coercive. Grey is situational. Black is no holds barred. Most new agers fall in the first two camps. God knows they’re ignorant. They don’t know they’re deceived.

I’ve noticed a sharp increase in the topic. The books are everywhere and there’s lots of references on Pinterest. That wasn’t the case two years ago.

~bella

JustSomeBloke · Aug 1, 2021

bèlla said:
Few know its satan. They think they’re dealing with a benevolent force. They don’t believe they’re walking in darkness. They’ve taken a different path to God.

That’s a different matter. You don’t sell it haphazardly. A bargain is made and the person knows who they’re dealing with.

Whereas, spell-casting has 3 approaches: white, grey, and black. White is non coercive. Grey is situational. Black is no holds barred. Most new agers fall in the first two camps. God knows they’re ignorant. They don’t know they’re deceived.

I’ve noticed a sharp increase in the topic. The books are everywhere and there’s lots of references on Pinterest. That wasn’t the case two years ago.

~bella

I prefer to not even look into it or learn about it. The less I know, the less likely I am to be tempted, or think that the grass might be greener. All I need to know is that if I'm not praying to our Heavenly Father, then I'm doing something wrong.

bèlla · Aug 1, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I prefer to not even look into it or learn about it. The less I know, the less likely I am to be tempted, or think that the grass might be greener. All I need to know is that if I'm not praying to our Heavenly Father, then I'm doing something wrong.

Why would you be tempted? If you know the truth and believe it is so; why would the deception entice you?

~bella

JustSomeBloke · Aug 1, 2021

bèlla said:
Why would you be tempted? If you know the truth and believe it is so; why would the deception entice you?

For the same reason a Christian might be tempted by anything else. We all have moments of weakness and temptation. It's a large part of being human. It can't be entirely eliminated. I know I don't want to go there, so I shan't even bother looking and learning. I don't want to do the equivalent of standing outside a shop, looking through the window at unchristian stuff.

bèlla · Aug 1, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
For the same reason a Christian might be tempted by anything else. We all have moments of weakness and temptation. It's a large part of being human. It can't be entirely eliminated. I know I don't want to go there, so I shan't even bother looking and learning. I don't want to do the equivalent of standing outside a shop, looking through the window at unchristian stuff.

You can’t be tempted unless you’re susceptible on some level. There’s a lot of things I don’t do for that reason. Being around someone who does wouldn’t influence me nor would the opportunity to engage unless some part of me desired it.

That’s how I’m wired. I think its wise to know your limitations. You have less hardships.

~bella

angelsaroundme · Aug 2, 2021

Taylor Swift put out a music video called Willow where her character joins a magic ritual. There is no swearing and nothing bloody but they are wearing cloaks and masks.

On Instagram she said, "Witches be like 'Sometimes I just want to listen to music while pining away/sulking/staring out a window.' It’s me. I’m witches. Never fear, the 'willow lonely witch remix' is here. "

Previously Taylor said she was Christian so I thought it was relevant to the topic.

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