"Muslim Free" gun range closes down

TLK Valentine

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I would say there's some significant overlap there...

Unless, that is, we want to open the door for any idea (willfully adopted by the gullible) to be classified as a religious belief and therefore afford it legal protection)

As would I -- but I'll trust the courts to tell the difference between religious and secular gullibility.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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As would I -- but I'll trust the courts to tell the difference between religious and secular gullibility.

It doesn't take much in order for someone to get secular ideas rebranded as religious ones.

Scientology (which was basically a made up belief system concocted by a Science Fiction writer) has been an "officially recognized as a religion" by many developed countries for a few decades now (and I think the even the US gives them partial recognition in the way of tax exempt status).

All it would take was for a denomination of Christianity to proclaim "vaccines are against our faith" and it could seriously hamper certain types of public health efforts in specific regions of the country.

That's why I've never been particularly keen on giving special protected statuses to circumstances of choice or ideology...and feel that type of protection should only be provided for circumstances of birth and/or immutable characteristics.


Look how long and high-profile some of the legal battles have been regarding things like contraception access for employees, or fighting over what services can (or cannot) be provided in hospitals that are bought up by the Catholic Health System.


With regards to the impact of gullibility on society, I don't see a particular reason why secular gullibility is any more or less concerning that religious gullibility. In fact, I would say that latter has caused more problems.
 
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TLK Valentine

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It doesn't take much in order for someone to get secular ideas rebranded as religious ones.

I've been saying that for years -- Jim Crow is dead; Long live Saint James Crow.
 
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Subduction Zone

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The two are both singling out a group in order to discriminiate against them. I haven't seen any studies that suggest mask wearing is actually a highly effective medical protection. Seems to me that we ought to have some science to follow before we pretend we are following the science. If the argument were that vaccination was a medical protection for all then we only have the violation of rights vs the actual safeguarding of the public's general health but I don't see the same proof for masks as I see for vaccinations. There ought to be some very convincing evidence that the general health will be effectively safeguarded by a policy before one just strips people's rights from them. In the case of the gun range there is no case to be made that discriminating against Muslims safeguards the health of the populace.
Just because you are not convinced by the evidence that masks work does not mean that there is not convincing evidence. That is why we sometimes have to rely on experts and follow their advice.

Your logical error is likely to be that of a black and white fallacy. No one has argued that masks are perfect. That does not mean that they do not work.
 
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iluvatar5150

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So, all snark aside on this one...(I got my snarky post out of the way above)

In theory, I get it...

Religious affiliation is a circumstance of choice much like anti-vaxxerism and not an immutable characteristic.

I probably agree with you more than I disagree, but I think I'd put religious affiliation somewhere between mutable and immutable. It can be changed, but it often takes a lot of effort on the part of the believer, especially when the adherents often believe that some deity told them that this is the way. Discriminating along religious lines often amounts to punishing people for following orders handed down by an authority greater than you. Then the fact that there's often a strong correlation between religion and ethnicity or culture, means that people get punished for being "born into this way" if not precisely being "born this way".

I'm not sympathetic to the view that religious freedom should trump everything else, but I am sympathetic to the notion that religious beliefs are rather more integral to a person's being than, say, whether or not they like blondes or pineapple on pizza.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I've been saying that for years

It hampers pragmatic policy making efforts to afford certain ideological viewpoints "insulation from scrutiny" or "exemptions to the rules"

For instance, if you're a business owner (or even just a concerned parent), and you want to enforce vaccine requirements for entry to your business, or for schools.

If a person says no, I don't want to get vaccinated...

Whether their reason is religious:
"It's against my faith because certain vaccines were derived from fetal cell research"
"It's against my faith because certain vaccines contain gelatine from pigs"

or secular:
"cuz I watched Alex Jones on InfoWars last night"
"I believe in natural remedies I found on the Mercola website"

...it doesn't really matter, the end result is the same.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I'm not sympathetic to the view that religious freedom should trump everything else, but I am sympathetic to the notion that religious beliefs are rather more integral to a person's being than, say, whether or not they like blondes or pineapple on pizza.

a1WBj5v_460s.jpg
 
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pescador

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It means that since we vaccinated people can't get more than the sniffles from COVID, I can't understand why vaccinated people are willing to wear a mask for those who rejected the vaccine? I just don't share that level of compassion, and I struggle to understand how anyone else does... Seriously.

Is it like an art.? Is it a learned quality..? Or does it just occur naturally in some people...?

I struggle here.

Simply because one gets vaccinated it apparently doesn't affect how the virus is transmitted. You may have only a mild reaction but you can still spread the virus full strength to others. Also, a mask is just a piece of cloth; it's no big deal to wear one, especially if it means the virus won't be transmitted by you to others.

I strongly believe that loving your neighbor is a fundamental practice of all Christians. Remember in the parable the Samaritan offered considerable assistance to the injured man, doing what he could to help him out materially. We should help our "neighbor" in the same way.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Simply because one gets vaccinated it apparently doesn't affect how the virus is transmitted. You may have only a mild reaction but you can still spread the virus full strength to others. Also, a mask is just a piece of cloth; it's no big deal to wear one, especially if it means the virus won't be transmitted by you to others.

I strongly believe that loving your neighbor is a fundamental practice of all Christians. Remember in the parable the Samaritan offered considerable assistance to the injured man, doing what he could to help him out materially. We should help our "neighbor" in the same way.

I only wish I could love at the level that you do. I think you're right up there with the saints, considering that those who haven't been vaccinated have done it deliberately, and don't even want our help.

...It's amazing to me that people are willing to ignore the wishes of others, and force health onto them. It's kind of like recessitating someone with a DNR tag.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Wouldn't it have made better economic sense to just assume that the gun range would be Muslim-free, as most businesses in Oaklahoma are, rather than put up that dumb little sign?

Yes
 
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pescador

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I only wish I could love at the level that you do. I think you're right up there with the saints, considering that those who haven't been vaccinated have done it deliberately, and don't even want our help.

...It's amazing to me that people are willing to ignore the wishes of others, and force health onto them. It's kind of like recessitating someone with a DNR tag.

All Christians are saints.
 
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Landon Caeli

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(Even though it's off-topic)

Do we have to be so 'by the book' all the time? I think it inhibits learning, unless it's *wildly* off topic, to the point it becomes a nuisance or is a deliberate derail.
 
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