Christian Witches

Neogaia777 · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
I encountered this years ago at an evangelical church. I was in a women's bible study and someone mentioned 'Christian yoga'. I was baffled. I'm conversant in Buddhism and Hinduism and wondered how they disconnected it from the root. She argued her point passionately and I filed it away.

I'm not surprised to hear other teachings have crept in. That's one of the reasons I read books instead of listening to sermons. Hearing is my primary learning method. I need to see what I'm taking in. I've caught my share of questionable things by doing so.

I am reminded of how Paul said all things were lawful for him now as a now mature Christian now, and how Peter learned what that meant when they had a little confrontation about it or over it also, etc...

But how they would not do it (or exercise it) (their newfound liberty or freedom) around other fellow believers, if it was going to be too much of a stumbling block for them also, etc...

bèlla said:
Belief is powerful. We lean in the direction with the greatest influence.

~bella

But it's only real true power comes also only from God also, etc...

Otherwise you might just be temporarily deluded only, etc...

God Bless!

d taylor · Jul 31, 2021

Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”

Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
I encountered Christian witches on the pagan side. Syncreticism isn't new and there's a lot of mixture. I've studied enough to recognize it.

People are drawn to witchcraft for seven reasons:

Results
Control
Power
Connection
Autonomy
Pain/Escape
Dissatisfaction
Confusion

When you hear their stories one or more crop up. Why the practices appeal to 'believers' is debatable. I have my suspicions.

~bella

Im not sure what you mean by "pain/escape" and control and power are things that draw people more into the occult then pagan beliefs. But dissatisfaction defently I think a lot of spiritual people get trapped onto paths not really suited for them.

Neogaia777 · Jul 31, 2021

I am wondering here about any of you who might still as of yet still be weak in the faith yet maybe still, etc...?

Do any of you celebrate any Holidays...?

God Bless!

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

Lawrence87 said:
Well it's a book that solidified my conversion to Christianity. It should be said that it is written from an unapologetic Orthodox Christian perspective, so it may not be for everyone.

Thank you for sharing.

Generally he discusses such things as 'Christian Yoga', Pentecostalism, as well as touching on the interest in Eastern meditation and UFOs etc.

I'm reminded of The Screwtape Letters and his brilliant articulation of deception. The exchange is well-crafted and opens up the spirit realm for the novice if we're willing to look close. I'll share two that echo your sentiments nicely.

Screwtape writes: “Now it may surprise you to learn that in His [God’s] efforts to get permanent possession of a soul, He relies on the troughs even more than on the peaks; some of His special favourites have gone through longer and deeper troughs than anyone else.

The reason is this. To us a human is primarily food; our aim is the absorption of its will into ours, the increase of our own area of selfhood at its expense. But the obedience which the Enemy demands of men is quite a different thing.

One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself – creatures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because He has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His.

We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over.”

He also saw a trend towards the 'all religions are the same' line of thought beginning to appear in Christian voices during his time. He proposes that this trend will essentially pave the way for the one world religion of the antichrist. Many of the things he discussed were very fringe at the time, but he was blessed with the foresight to pick up on them and see the direction that they were pointed towards, and since then we have seen many of the things he spoke about come to the mainstream.

I agree. I look forward to reading the book.

Screwtape writes: “Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacraments and charity, he is ours – and the more ‘religious’ (on those terms) the more securely ours.”

~bella

TheWhat? · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Ignorance of the word, God's will, or something else?

The written word is most certainly helpful, but ignorance of the reality.

Why are they disenfranchised in your opinion?

Like I said I'm not an expert in witchcraft per se so this is partly conjecture, but I get the impression that witchcraft, today, primarily appeals to women. There are some aspects of christian tradition which are almost profusely patriarchal, and I think there is a connection.

Personally, I'm of the position that the prophetic gift, minus the silliness often associated with it, is something which should be seen as a natural progression for the believer -- it's integral to what we are as humans and what we lost as a result of the fall, and to keep women in subjection at the cost of their growth in this gift is to deny them a measure of restoration. So, I think women might be tempted moreso than men toward alternatives if they don't know what they're looking for.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

jacknife said:
Im not sure what you mean by "pain/escape" and control and power are things that draw people more into the occult then pagan beliefs. But dissatisfaction defently I think a lot of spiritual people get trapped onto paths not really suited for them.

Many practitioners of others faiths were reared in Christian homes or former believers. We can question the validity of their profession and environment. But nevertheless, the numbers are there.

I recall several polls regarding background and 'what led you here' conversations. Pain was frequently mentioned as was escape. Negative experiences and hypocrisy were usually the culprits.

There's no difference between paganism and the occult. They have the same master.

~bella

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
I am wondering here about any of you who might still as of yet still be weak in the faith yet maybe still, etc...?

Do any of you celebrate any Holidays...?

God Bless!

Which holidays are you referring to?

~bella

Neogaia777 · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Which holidays are you referring to?

~bella

Any of them, etc...

Take some of the more common American ones for example...

Do any of you celebrate them...?

Neogaia777 · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Which holidays are you referring to?

~bella

Neogaia777 said:
Any of them, etc...

Take some of the more common American ones for example...

Do any of you celebrate them...?

Or do you think that your maybe picking and/or choosing among them makes you either more, or else less righteous...?

God Bless!

public hermit · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Why do you believe this is seeping into the church? What's missing in your opinion?

That is a large question. It would be interesting to hear from a Christian witch, to get some insight. I have my limited point of view and usually think of it in terms of power and control. Why else cast spells, or try to get the elemental forces/powers in the universe to act in a certain way? I get the impulse, though. Our finite existence in this world is precarious and can be frightening. We all wish we had more control, but this is God's world, and if we are aligned with the kingdom, then we trust that the divine intention will obtain despite how things appear. That's part of the take away of the cross/resurrection. If Christians are turning to some magical craft due to the reasons stated, which might not be the case, I would advise rethinking God's love and sovereignty. If God can can bring things into existence that did not exist and raise the dead, our fitting response is to trust that and live the kingdom life, which does entail trying to control everything. It's just another shade of the age old problem of human pride, I think. It was for me, lol.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

TheWhat? said:
Like I said I'm not an expert in witchcraft per se so this is partly conjecture, but I get the impression that witchcraft, today, primarily appeals to women. There are some aspects of christian tradition which are almost profusely patriarchal, and I think there is a connection.

Men are typically drawn to magic. They study ancient traditions and ritual practices. Power and control are seductive and they're lured by their want for greatness. And they go further. That road is wholly Luciferian. At some point they know who they're dealing with and willingly serve him.

Women fall in two camps. They're solitary or seek a group. The majority are eclectic or try to infuse social good into their practices. That's not to say they don't do magic. They believe they're doing good and helping humanity. There are female magicians. But most are male.

Personally, I'm of the position that the prophetic gift, minus the silliness often associated with it, is something which should be seen as a natural progression for the believer -- it's integral to what we are as humans and what we lost as a result of the fall, and to keep women in subjection at the cost of their growth in this gift is to deny them a measure of restoration. So, I think women might be tempted moreso than men toward alternatives if they don't know what they're looking for.

Oppression never ends well. We should be encouraging one another to work fervently in our God given gifts and talents. We shouldn't feel threatened if one possesses something we lack. The whole is bettered.

~bella

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Any of them, etc...

Take some of the more common American ones for example...

Do any of you celebrate them...?

No. We make exceptions for older relatives and gather at Christmas. Birthday celebrations are filled with thanksgiving for another year.

Personally, my daughter and I don't acknowledge holidays. Though New Year's Eve is special. I use it as a day of gratitude and recognition of the people and blessings the Lord bestowed. I began it 17 years ago with my best friend. That's our thing.

Holidays are a bridge of sorts in my work. It can be an avenue for sharing and showing light to others. I use them strategically.

~bella

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Or do you think that your maybe picking and/or choosing among them makes you either more, or else less righteous...?

God Bless!

Righteousness isn't a factor. We believe life should be celebrated every day. I don't need a special holiday to show love or togetherness. It should be the norm. That's how we live.

~bella

TheWhat? · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Men are typically drawn to magic. They study ancient traditions and ritual practices. Power and control are seductive and they're lured by their want for greatness. And they go further. That road is wholly Luciferian. At some point they know who they're dealing with and willingly serve him.

Women fall in two camps. They're solitary or seek a group. The majority are eclectic or try to infuse social good into their practices. That's not to say they don't do magic. They believe they're doing good and helping humanity. There are female magicians. But most are male.

Sorry, speaking from experience I've never met a male witch, whereas I have encountered many women who have shown a kind of interest in the subject. It's cultural, and now it's supposedly bigger than Presbyterianism in America.

Also, speaking from experience, I wouldn't rely on protestant fanfiction as canon on this subject. There's no guarantee that protestants are not under the influence of the wrong powers. That doesn't mean they aren't christians. Further, a willingness to accuse people to be witches, and to murder them, does not guarantee that they are not under the wrong influences, especially given that Satan is a liar, accuser and murderer.

To study evil doesn't make one wise.

Neogaia777 · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
No. We make exceptions for older relatives and gather at Christmas. Birthday celebrations are filled with thanksgiving for another year.

Personally, my daughter and I don't acknowledge holidays. Though New Year's Eve is special. I use it as a day of gratitude and recognition of the people and blessings the Lord bestowed. I began it 17 years ago with my best friend. That's our thing.

Holidays are a bridge of sorts in my work. It can be an avenue for sharing and showing light to others. I use them strategically.

~bella

What if others don't have the same "rules" about them as you do...?

They all have very pagan roots BTW, or at least almost all of them anyway...

But if you truly and fully know your freedom in Christ, you shouldn't have to worry about it or any of them, etc...

Was more my point, etc...

And is also a point, that can be applied to a lot of other things also, etc...

God Bless!

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

bèlla said:
Many practitioners of others faiths were reared in Christian homes or former believers. We can question the validity of their profession and environment. But nevertheless, the numbers are there.

I recall several polls regarding background and 'what led you here' conversations. Pain was frequently mentioned as was escape. Negative experiences and hypocrisy were usually the culprits.

There's no difference between paganism and the occult. They have the same master.

~bella

The last parts untrue occult has no real religous basis it's how you get things like christian occultist, Muslim occultist or even atheist occultist. See things like demonology, angelology or the origins of the pentagram for example. While pagan is more of a blanket term for a huge number of beliefs think the ancient greek pantheon for example. I see people often put them together because both systems lack a dogma or set of rules altogether but they are both different. But I'm not sure how much detail i can go into before I break fourms rules.

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

public hermit said:
That is a large question. It would be interesting to hear from a Christian witch, to get some insight. I have my limited point of view and usually think of it in terms of power and control. Why else cast spells, or try to get the elemental forces/powers in the universe to act in a certain way?

A big question but you can handle it.

I don't think most realize what they're dealing with when they summon them. They believe the books and rhetoric. If you really knew what you were calling you'd run in the other direction.

If Christians are turning to some magical craft due to the reasons stated, which might not be the case, I would advise rethinking God's love and sovereignty. If God can can bring things into existence that did not exist and raise the dead, our fitting response is to trust that and live the kingdom life, which does entail trying to control everything. It's just another shade of the age old problem of human pride, I think. It was for me, lol.

On the Christian end, I think results and dissatisfaction are primary motivations. Connection could play a part too. God doesn't move 'fast' enough. They aren't experiencing the life they expected. And many feel disconnected and long for intimacy.

I attempted to solve a problem with the wrong methods. Things blew up in here! It didn't take long to realize that wasn't the right way. You can only have so many explosions before you reconsider your approach!

~bella

bèlla · Jul 31, 2021

TheWhat? said:
Sorry, speaking from experience I've never met a male witch, whereas I have encountered many women who have shown a kind of interest in the subject. It's cultural, and now it's supposedly bigger than Presbyterianism in America.

I didn't call them witches. I called them magicians.

Also, speaking from experience, I wouldn't rely on protestant fanfiction as canon on this subject. There's no guarantee that protestants are not under the influence of the wrong powers. That doesn't mean they aren't christians. Further, a willingness to accuse people to be witches, and to murder them, does not guarantee that they are not under the wrong influences, especially given that Satan is a liar, accuser and murderer.

To study evil doesn't make one wise.

Absolutely. Divide and conquer is his game.

~bella

jacknife · Jul 31, 2021

TheWhat? said:
Sorry, speaking from experience I've never met a male witch, whereas I have encountered many women who have shown a kind of interest in the subject. It's cultural, and now it's supposedly bigger than Presbyterianism in America.

Also, speaking from experience, I wouldn't rely on protestant fanfiction as canon on this subject. There's no guarantee that protestants are not under the influence of the wrong powers. That doesn't mean they aren't christians. Further, a willingness to accuse people to be witches, and to murder them, does not guarantee that they are not under the wrong influences, especially given that Satan is a liar, accuser and murderer.

To study evil doesn't make one wise.

Most witches i've met are male. The only two witches i've met on this fourm were make as well.

Christian Witches

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