Can a doctrine keep you from heaven?
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Clare73
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Yes, anyone whose lifestyle is habitual sin has no reason to believe he is saved.
If he believes that, he is deceived.
Are you sure about that?
"No one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." (John 6:65)
"All that the Father gives to me will come to me." (John 6:37)
"They shall never perish.". . ."I shall lose none of all that he has given me."
(John 10:28, John 6:39)
"Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal (sign of ownership), the promied Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's (treasured --Exodus 19:5; Deuteronomy 7:6, 26:18; Malachi 3:17) possession." (Ephesians 1:14).
"For those God foreknew (decided before hand) he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son. . .And those he predestined, he also called. . .justified. . .glorified (past tense)." (Romans 8:29-30)
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boughtwithaprice
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Yes I am sure. God knows those that are His, but how do You know?
2Tim 2:19
But the sure foundation of God standeth firm, having this seal: the Lord knoweth who are his; and let every one depart from iniquity who nameth the name of the Lord.
Everyone that takes the Lord's name, Jesus, must depart from iniquity. The Apostle Paul was very cognizant of this battle. He knew that he must continue the fight and keep himself pure, or he could have taught others, but have fallen away himself. If St Paul had this attitude, what reason would we have to teach others to believe that they are permanently saved?
1Cor9:27
But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.
Why would Paul have been so worried and disciplined? Did he not know he was permanently saved? He was one of the few humans that have talked with Jesus personally. What was his problem? Do we call the Apostle Paul a neurotic nut job suffering from scrupulosity? I think not, he realized and lived what has always been taught by the Church. Only those that persevere to the end will be saved. Matt 24:13
2Peter1:10 tells us to work harder and continue in good works to make our calling and election sure.
[10] Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time.
Was Peter wrong? does he not know that you can't get to heaven by good works as is taught in the assemblies where permanent salvation is preached? Why would he say this?
We know that we are saved by grace. Faith, Hope and Charity are virtues that come from God alone, and it is from the movement of the Holy Spirit within us that any human can obtain these virtues. The other four cardinal virtues of justice, prudence, temperance, and fortitude require human effort to develop. We need to practice self denial Matt 16:24-26
We can do that by practicing prayer, fasting and almsgiving. Bring our bodies under subjection as Paul has taught us, and take up our cross as our Lord has taught us to follow Him.
The Christian life is one of sacrifice and self denial, and it takes constant work and care. The Lord knows those that are His, but how do YOU know if you are His?
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Clare73
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Romans 8:15-16 - "You received the Spirit of sonship (adoption). And by him we cry, 'Abba, Father.' The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."
He answers that question in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. It was about "building," not salvation.
Even if what one builds is hay, straw and stubble, he is still saved (v. 15).
Romans 8:15-16.
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timothyu
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I disagree. Their governance is around serving the ideals and will of man using God as their figurehead instead of maintaining the original Christianity which served only the will of God and looked forward to his coming governance. Christianity originally was about the governance of God over man, not the subtle twist they gave it where it became about the governance of man over man using God. The repentant of the self will of man don't go back to setting up worldly institutions built upon exactly the same foundations as all previous institutions.
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timothyu
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Faith in His Kingdom is coming and the governance of man will fall.
Not orthodox Christianity. . .
Well it is the basis of Jesus' teachings so I can't help what man made of it in order to build their own empires.
Not orthodox Christianity. . .
Well it is the basis of Jesus' teachings so I can't help what man made of it in order to build their own empires.
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boughtwithaprice
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So you are contending that if you feel you are God's child and want to call Him father, then you are permanently saved. That is not what the Church teaches and that is not what the Bible says. Jesus says if you love Me, keep my commandments; the Bible says that we need to persevere in good works. Nothing about feelings there.
I know that you are trying to say the right thing, but you are missing the point. The call of the Christian life is one of submission and obedience. One day, your eyes will be opened, and you will have great sorrow. I pray that it takes place while you are still in the flesh, and you have space to repent.
I stand by my original statement. The doctrine of imputed righteousness and permanent salvation is a dangerous doctrine. If it is preached to those without faith, they have no chance at repentance. They would think of themselves as saved, when they are not. That is a grave injustice.
Ezekiel 33
[6] And if the watchman see the sword coming, and sound not the trumpet: and the people look not to themselves, and the sword come, and cut off a soul from among them: he indeed is taken away in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at the hand of the watchman. [7] So thou, O son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore thou shalt hear the word from my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. [8] When I say to the wicked: O wicked man, thou shalt surely die: if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked man from his way: that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. [9] But if thou tell the wicked man, that he may be converted from his ways, and he be not converted from his way: he shall die in his iniquity: but thou hast delivered thy soul.
God bless you
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Believing in osas or not won't affect your entry into heaven.
.
.
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Clare73
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I addressed that in post #102. . .are you paying attention?
If you are trusting on the atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sin, past, present and future, and
if you are walking in obedience in the process of sanctification in the Holy Spirit, and
if in your spirit God is Father to you in all that "father" means,
you have been sealed (mark of God's ownership) by the Holy Spirit who guarantees your inheritance.
That is the word of God (2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:14),
and you either believe it, or you don't.
There is nothing more to say.
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timothyu
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The subtle twist that leads man away from the Kingdom of God. Even the Adversary believes in Jesus, but can have nothing to do with His teachings, hence diverting attention from what it can have no part of and keeping it's own worldly still. Just as Jesus sent the HS to help keep those of the Kingdom on the narrow path to it, the Adversary keeps it's own on a much wider one that leads right back to the world of the adversary and man. But anyone who follows Jesus' teaching would know that.
The faith is in the fact that the will and ways of God are the true path while the will and ways of man lead nowhere. This is what Jesus taught. Hence God's governance will eliminate the governance of man once and for all, and the Adversary and those of this world want to divert attention from the fact. As a matter of fact at present we are being offered for the first time in the history of man, a new world government made up of opposing governmental systems and religions. Even the Pope is part of it. Within that group are those that recognize Jesus yet are participating in the building of the ultimate system of Corporatism which opposes the will of God.
So yes, the teachings are more important so that we understand WHY we chose which side to stand on. Anyone can use God's name in their endeavours but only a few actually reject the ways of man to actually follow His will. If we don't know the difference as taught, then we are nothing but Lord Lords.
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Clare73
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Payment of the debt/punishment for sin of those who believe in and trust on his atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) for the remission of their sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty,"
"record cleared."
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boughtwithaprice
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i do not recommend approaching the throne of judgement and telling God that He owes you salvation by a legal transaction. He is a God of justice and the Son has died to give you the power to repent, give up your sin and live righteously if you ask for it.
We do not sin after we learn the truth, else we crucify to Lord afresh and put Him to open shame. The Christian life is one of repentance
Christ will cleanse you now if you ask. For His blood to cleanse you, you have to open your heart.
Not everyone that says Lord Lord, but only those that DO the will of the father will enter life. That is what He said in the Gospel of Matthew
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timothyu
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Record not cleared. Door to the previous non-existent Kingdom opened by Jesus' life and death, doing no will but that of the Father (reversing the actions of Adam and Eve in the garden). Opened to only those who believe what Jesus taught about the will of God being better than the will of man and why. Thus commanding us, once understood, to repent of self serving ways of man for the 'other' oriented will of the Father.
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