Why people who talk the most about going to heaven don't throw very good parties

Hmm · Jul 31, 2021

The reason given by Rob Bell in 'Love Wins' is because people who see the gospel as mainly a question of who 'gets into' heaven are reducing the Good News to an entrance ticket to get past the bouncer and into the club.

It's s diminishment of the gospel to one of entrancing rather than one of joyous participation. Jesus tells us that he is one with God and that we can be one with him. The God he told us about has always wanted us to be in cooperative partnership with him in creating the world to become what be intends it to be.

It's not about just 'getting in' somewhere else. It's about peace in our soul and also about asking and learning, and creating and sharing good things. Like good parties.

Sabertooth · Jul 31, 2021

Your party analogy is a bit weak...

Jesus said,
"So [the rich man] said,

‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods.
And I will say to my soul,

“Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years;
take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.” ’

But God said to him,

‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you;
then whose will those things be which you have provided?’

So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”

Luke 12:18-21 NKJV

"To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:
...
A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;..." Ecclesiastes 3:1, 4 NKJV

Hmm · Jul 31, 2021

Sabertooth said:
Your party analogy is a bit weak...

Wasn't Jesus' very first miracle turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana so that the feast of reason and the flow of soul could continue?

Eftsoon · Jul 31, 2021

Hmm said:
Wasn't Jesus' very first miracle turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana so that the feast of reason and the flow of soul could continue?

Yeah... I'm not sure why the gospel is an entrance ticket. The analogy does feel a little weak. That said, I agree broadly. Christianity is an inaugural kind of faith. The kingdom is already here. We are celebrating the defeat of sin. Christ is herald and Lord over the true New Age.

In terms of the implicit universalism... well I haven't made up my mind about that as of yet, so will refrain from commenting.

Sabertooth · Jul 31, 2021

Hmm said:
Wasn't Jesus' very first miracle turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana so that the feast of reason and the flow of soul could continue?

That was before His ministry began, however.

Jesus said,
"But I say to you,

love your enemies,
bless those who curse you,
do good to those who hate you, and
pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

that you may be sons of your Father in heaven;

for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good,
and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Matthew 5:44-45 NKJV

Hmm · Jul 31, 2021

Eftsoon said:
Yeah... I'm not sure why the gospel is an entrance ticket. The analogy does feel a little weak.

The analogy is that if someone spends all their time in this life preparing for the next, their life is going to be a very joyless experience. They'll likely feel that they have deserved heaven because they've been a good Christian, gone to church, helped pour out the tea and coffee after the services etc, whereas all those others who haven't done this work will get their just comeuppance.

It's really about what Jesus' message is. Is it about working with God to make this world
a better one or not to care about that and think only about heaven? Are we to try to make life a kind of joyful party now or to wait miserably in line to gain entrance to the night club?

Sabertooth · Jul 31, 2021

It isn't about "standing in line..."

From the "water into wine" story,
“Whatever He says to you, do it.” John 2:5 NKJV

Hmm · Jul 31, 2021

Sabertooth said:
It isn't about "standing in line..."

From the "water into wine" story,
“Whatever He says to you, do it.” John 2:5 NKJV

But do it joyfully out of love or in order to build up brownie rewards for your future life?

Sabertooth · Jul 31, 2021

Hmm said:
But do it joyfully out of love or in order to build up brownie rewards for your future life?

Both.
Jesus again,
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,

where moth and rust destroy and
where thieves break in and steal;

but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,

where neither moth nor rust destroys and
where thieves do not break in and steal.

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21 NKJV

"Heavenly-minded" and "joyful" are not mutually exclusive, if you are doing it right.

The two greatest commandments are these:
You shall love the Lord, your God, with all of your mind, strength, heart and soul.
And love your neighbor as yourself.

Hmm · Jul 31, 2021

Sabertooth said:
Both.
Jesus again,
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,

where moth and rust destroy and
where thieves break in and steal;
but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,

where neither moth nor rust destroys and
where thieves do not break in and steal.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21 NKJV

"Heavenly-minded" and "joyful" are not mutually exclusive, if you are doing it right.

The two greatest commandments are these:
You shall love the Lord, your God, with all of your mind, strength, heart and soul.
And love your neighbor as yourself.

Well, that seems an enlightened way to look at it to me.

Saint Steven · Jul 31, 2021

Hmm said:
It's not about just 'getting in' somewhere else. It's about peace in our soul and also about asking and learning, and creating and sharing good things. Like good parties.

Good topic, thanks. Reminds me of this.

Matthew 11:18-19 NIV
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon’; 19 the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”

Landon Caeli · Jul 31, 2021

Hmm said:
The reason given by Rob Bell in 'Love Wins' is because people who see the gospel as mainly a question of who 'gets into' heaven are reducing the Good News to an entrance ticket to get past the bouncer and into the club.

It's s diminishment of the gospel to one of entrancing rather than one of joyous participation. Jesus tells us that he is one with God and that we can be one with him. The God he told us about has always wanted us to be in cooperative partnership with him in creating the world to become what be intends it to be.

It's not about just 'getting in' somewhere else. It's about peace in our soul and also about asking and learning, and creating and sharing good things. Like good parties.

Amen, brother.

Landon Caeli · Jul 31, 2021

Sabertooth said:
Both.
Jesus again,
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,

where moth and rust destroy and
where thieves break in and steal;
but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,

where neither moth nor rust destroys and
where thieves do not break in and steal.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21 NKJV

"Heavenly-minded" and "joyful" are not mutually exclusive, if you are doing it right.

The two greatest commandments are these:
You shall love the Lord, your God, with all of your mind, strength, heart and soul.
And love your neighbor as yourself.

Both is good.

com7fy8 · Jul 31, 2021

Hmm said:
The analogy is that if someone spends all their time in this life preparing for the next, their life is going to be a very joyless experience.

There is preparation, yes, but while doing good in this life. Loving here prepares us for loving there.

Landon Caeli · Jul 31, 2021

I have a confession to make... When I do good things for other people, I don't do it for God, I do it for them. Hopefully that's not a sin.

Hmm · Jul 31, 2021

Landon Caeli said:
I have a confession to make... When I do good things for other people, I don't do it for God, I do it for them. Hopefully that's not a sin.

That's very honest. I'm largely the same too but I find God coming into the picture more and more. For example, if I don't like someone I try to remember that in God's eyes, that person is one of his children just like me and he loves them in a way I can't ever understand, and grieves when they and wrong and so on just like he does with me. I find my animosity naturally diminishes when I think like this and I have more mental peace.

Why people who talk the most about going to heaven don't throw very good parties

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