Why do SDA preach

SabbathBlessings said:

It is and it is fulfilled with Christ as our sacrifice. The weekly Sabbath is not a shadow law and points to creation Genesis 2:1-3 and goes for eternity Isaiah 66:23. It’s also a commandment that God personally wrote and asked us to “remember” not forget which seems like what you are suggesting.

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a. Explain how the feast of booths was fulfilled. When and how.

b. Explain how the new moon was fulfilled. And why it will still be there.

c. The Sabbath was
-an appointed time, listed in Ezekiel 45, and Col. 2 is a similar listing of appointed timesl.
-had sacrifices
-is a memorial for Israel of creation and redemption
-is a sign of sanctification
-is a covenant with Israel forever, just as the other things you say are fulfilled were forever statutes.

Nothing about that says it is a moral law. God says in Ezekiel that He gave them the laws which if they do they will live by them MOREOVER He gave the Sabbath to the Israeliltes as a sign.

There is nothing about a sign, memorial, covenant, with sacrifices that says moral commandment.

For instance, there is no drink offering associated with thou shalt not kill.
There is no grain offering associated with thou shalt not covet

The Sabbath is ceremonial, and included in Col. 2 so I do the same with it as I do the other elements there--consider them shadows.

Albion said:

It's written in the Bible.

You don't want to acknowledge that. Bob seems to be hoping to find a way around it. But as I said a few posts ago, the New Testament is God's word (Okay so far?) and it explains the reason Sunday became the primary day of worship.

That's it! Every other approach to the matter is just a distraction.

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I think I addressed your post here - #946

let me know if I missed anything.

tall73 said:

c. The Sabbath was
-an appointed time, listed in Ezekiel 45, and Col. 2 is a similar listing of appointed timesl.
-had sacrifices
-is a memorial for Israel of creation and redemption
-is a sign of sanctification
-is a covenant with Israel forever, just as the other things you say are fulfilled were forever statutes.

Nothing about that says it is a moral law. God says in Ezekiel that He gave them the laws which if they do they will live by them MOREOVER He gave the Sabbath to the Israeliltes as a sign.

There is nothing about a sign, memorial, covenant, with sacrifices that says moral commandment.
.

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1. "Sins is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
2. and we already know all Ten continue in the NT,
that alone makes the Sabbath commandment "a moral law".

But the points you make above are not even distinct opposition to the SDA POV - they are opposition to almost everyone (which I agree you are free to do BTW) - so why not just "agree to differ" given that so much of the playing field already accepts my points 1,2 as Bible fact? I never insist that everyone must agree with the SDA POV.

tall73 said:

a. Explain how the feast of booths was fulfilled. When and how.

b. Explain how the new moon was fulfilled. And why it will still be there.

c. The Sabbath was
-an appointed time, listed in Ezekiel 45, and Col. 2 is a similar listing of appointed timesl.
-had sacrifices
-is a memorial for Israel of creation and redemption
-is a sign of sanctification
-is a covenant with Israel forever, just as the other things you say are fulfilled were forever statutes.

Nothing about that says it is a moral law. God says in Ezekiel that He gave them the laws which if they do they will live by them MOREOVER He gave the Sabbath to the Israeliltes as a sign.

There is nothing about a sign, memorial, covenant, with sacrifices that says moral commandment.

For instance, there is no drink offering associated with thou shalt not kill.
There is no grain offering associated with thou shalt not covet

The Sabbath is ceremonial, and included in Col. 2 so I do the same with it as I do the other elements there--consider them shadows.

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You’re free to do what you what, God gives us free will. God told us to keep holy His Sabbath day Exodus 20:8-11. He personally wrote this in stone and stored His covenant of Ten in the Most Holy of His Temple. God continues with Sabbath keeping on the New Earth, if people don’t want to keep holy God’s Sabbath on this earth, are they going to want to on the New Earth. God will never take away our free will and on the New Earth God promises there will be no more sin. I prefer the promises that God makes with us and He asks so little in return. Hallowing His Sabbath is nothing but a delight and a blessing. I am off for now….

Happy Sabbath all and God bless!

BobRyan said:

I think I addressed your post here - #946

let me know if I missed anything.

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Hello, Bob.

My "argument" is outlined at the end of #527.

SabbathBlessings said:

According to God, it is a covenant of Ten. These are God’s Words:

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

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The words of the covenant, the covenant document, was a monument to the agreement. A covenant is an agreement with promises.

And when you look at the actual formation of the covenant, it includes more than just the ten:

Exo 24:1 And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.
Exo 24:2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.
Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exo 24:5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
Exo 24:6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exo 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

In chapter 34 which you quoted we see a renewal of the covenant:

Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
Exo 34:2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
Exo 34:3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
Exo 34:4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
Exo 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
Exo 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Exo 34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
Exo 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

Exo 34:10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
Exo 34:11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
Exo 34:12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
Exo 34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Exo 34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
Exo 34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
Exo 34:17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
Exo 34:18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
Exo 34:19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
Exo 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
Exo 34:23 Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
Exo 34:24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
Exo 34:25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
Exo 34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.



That is why in Deuteronomy it is recapping the process. But you left off the last part.

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

The promises included all the statutes, read from the book of the law where the people agreed to do all of it.

It involved more than the ten, but the ten were on stone as a monument to the whole agreement.

We see Josiah also reading all the words of the covenant in his time:

2Ki 23:1 And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem.
2Ki 23:2 And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which was found in the house of the LORD.
2Ki 23:3 And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

BobRyan said:

1. "Sins is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
2. and we already know all Ten continue in the NT,
that alone makes the Sabbath commandment "a moral law".

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No, it is listed in Ezekiel 45 and the similar list of Col. 2 as a shadow.

And of course every command that was required was an obligation. That included the appointed times as well--until they were fulfilled.

But you need to explain how a memorial sign covenant with sacrifices is moral.

But the points you make above are not even distinct opposition to the SDA POV - they are opposition to almost everyone (which I agree you are free to do BTW) - so why not just "agree to differ" given that so much of the playing field already accepts my points 1,2 as Bible fact? I never insist that everyone must agree with the SDA POV.

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Oh I don't think they are. What you don't explain is that the groups you claim favor your view of the ten commandments, when you ask them, don't think you have to observe the seventh-day Sabbath. Why? Because it is fulfilled with the other appointed times.

Many then go on to try to bring Sunday into that role, but without Scriptural warrant.

SabbathBlessings said:

You’re free to do what you what, God gives us free will. God told us to keep holy His Sabbath day Exodus 20:8-11. He personally wrote this in stone and stored His covenant of Ten in the Most Holy of His Temple. God continues with Sabbath keeping on the New Earth, if people don’t want to keep holy God’s Sabbath on this earth, are they going to want to on the New Earth. God will never take away our free will and on the New Earth God promises there will be no more sin. I prefer the promises that God makes with us and He asks so little in return. Hallowing His Sabbath is nothing but a delight and a blessing. I am off for now….

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So not sure how the feast of booths was fulfilled?

But you do know it was a shadow from Col. 2 right? So was the Sabbath.

Albion said:

Yes.


It's true.


Yes.


How ridiculous a comment is that.

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It's true---done often. Believe what you want.

tall73 said:

You think repetitive posting or questioning is limited to one side in the Sabbath debate?

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Already answered----see what I mean?

Albion said:

You know it's true. You can still hold out for the notion that most people are wrong about the matter, but it's laughable to suggest that the experts, Bible scholars, theologians, or churches are more or less evenly divided or anywhere near that when it comes to what we've been discussing.

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If you say so.

mmksparbud said:

Already answered----see what I mean?

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No, I don't see what you mean when you earlier said we are just trying to anger and distract you. Both sides repeat the same questions, and answers.

And sometimes, thankfully, we get new elements of nuance in the answers. I don't think the goal of either side is to cause anger.

JSRG said:

Are you sure Ehrman is an atheist? I remember Ehrman in the past saying he was an agnostic, though I suppose he might have changed and I didn't hear about it.

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I used the term loosely. I've heard him say, "I'm not a believer". I don't know what his status is beyond that.

I think I will be moving on from this thread. Other than a few new discussions this is mostly going over the usual arguments. .

Thank you all for the discussion.

tall73 said:

I think I will be moving on from this thread. Other than a few new discussions this is mostly going over the usual arguments. .

Thank you all for the discussion.

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I'm glad you stopped by. Your perspective was very helpful.

Major1 said:

My dear friend. I have shown YOU how the SDA teaching on keeping the Law is not Biblical.

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I am sorry dear friend let's agree to disagree. I have responded to your posts with a detailed scripture responses showing why your teachings and claims are not biblical all I get in response are posts like these which are your words not responding to or addressing the scriptures and post content that disagree with you. This post is a good example of that.

Major1 said:

I am not arguing or debating

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Sure sounds like your arguing to me. Your probably not debating though as you do not address my posts and scriptures shared with you.

Major1 said:

If you choose to follow their no-Biblical teachings after being shown, then the rest is on you.

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I only follow the bible which is God's Word and the bible which is God's Words not my words is all that I have shared with you but it seems you do not believe it and are not able to show why.

Major1 said:

Just to prove that , you just said ........"Why would Jesus say keep the Sabbath when Gods' people were already keeping the Sabbath for over 4000 years and were already keeping the Sabbath commandment as well as all that other 10 commandments?" Now we booth know that is not a true comment!!!

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It was not a comment it was a question based on a fact. Were God's people keeping the Sabbath for 4000 years before Jesus and when Jesus arrived? Yep! Why would Jesus need to tell them to keep the Sabbath when the Sabbath was already being kept? This section of your post makes not sense to me that was why I asked the question.

Major1 said:

We both know that the word Sabbath does not appear in Scripture until Ex. 16. Now that is a FACT!

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So you think that is important how exactly? There was no such thing as a Sabbath before Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27 on the "seventh day" of the creation week. *Genesis 2:1-3. According to the scriptures Gods' 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. According to the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 10:26-31 we read...

Hebrews 10:26-31
[26], For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30], For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Then we have the very Words of Jesus who says...

Matthew 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[6], And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is no scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). Jesus says that those who do so are not worshiping God by doing this. So who should we believe and follow; God or man? Something to pray about. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Take Care

Major1 said:

YES I have.

The problem is that you have rejected all of them in favor of your SDA teachings.

Every single position that you have advanced has come from the SDA workbook and is not validated by the Scriptures.

If you make the choice to follow the SDA guidelines over the Word of God......wonderful. That is certainly your choice to do so.

However, the doctrine of Grace does not allow the Christian to incorporate the keeping of the Law into its teaching.

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Sorry dear friend I do not believe you so we will have to agree to disagree. Your posts and scriptures have been responded to section by section and scripture by scripture with detailed scripture responses showing why your teachings and claims are not biblical. Your response is to simply ignore the post content and the scriptures shared with you. So there is nothing really more to talk about that I can see. I only follow the bible which is God's Word and the bible which is God's Words not my words is all that I have shared with you but it seems you do not believe it and are not able to show why. This in itself is telling enough. We should be careful not to ignore Gods Word because ignoring it does not make it disappear. According to Jesus it will become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48.

Something to pray about.

Major1 said:

The idea of anyone using the Revelation as a proof of Sabbath worship today is a Straw Dog option!

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And why would that be? Do God's people keep all the commandments of God or only some of them like you teach *Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:15?

Major1 said:

Just so that I may be of service to you, and of course IF you are will to accept the help......YOU can not use the book of the Revelation to support any church activity or doctrine today.There is NO CHURCH DOCTRINE in the book of the Revelation and to try and do so is forcing YOUR opinions on to something that is not supported.

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Then we read God's Word that says....

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness