Why do SDA preach

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
1. Obviously Moody agreed that the Bible Sabbath of the seventh day - began for mankind in Eden as do the Confession of Faith quoted here - so "yes" BOTH sides agree on that point you just skimmed past. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

2. Moody also agrees that ALL TEN are written on the heart and STILL apply today - so "yes" BOTH sides agree on that point you just skimmed past.

3. As for "Moody himself" -- he stated he keeps Saturday as the Sabbath as I already showed you.

So while skimming past all the easy parts - you are getting to "circle back" and challenge them while also redirecting to other details where in fact "all do not agree".

However even your own Venn diagram post shoots your own method in the foot - because the intersecting part "still exists" even when other areas do not intersect. You are diagramatically showing the common ground element is absolutely factually true - even while giving your "overstated" comment as if it did not exist!!..

How in the world are we suppose to have "Missed that"??

MMXX said:
You're going have to quote where Moody said Adam and Eve kept the sabbath per the 4th commandment in Exodus 20:11. Genesis 2:1-3 says that God rested. It doesn't say that anyone else rested that day, or that God told anyone to rest on the seventh day, until Exodus 20:11. Far reaching extrapolation isn't sound theology.

ok - but for the record you keep asking me to post previous responses - which is a pretty good indication that you are simply not reading them.

BobRyan said:
He liked the view that the 4th commandment is binding on all Christians and in fact all mankind - but "edited" to point to week-day-1

======= short snips of the Sabbath commandment section ---

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17

.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.

.
HOW TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.

...

Mr. Gladstone recently told a friend that the secret of his long life is that amid all the pressure of public cares he never forgot the Sabbath, with its rest for the body and the soul.

·
When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday,

…
Someone has said that without the Sabbath, the Church of Christ could not, as a visible organization, exist on earth.

…
Parents, if you want your children to grow up and honor you, have them honor the Sabbath day.

On the other hand, honoring the fourth commandment brings blessing:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." (Isaiah 58:13-14)

…...

1. CESSATION FROM SECULAR WORK

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need...

Sabbath-breaker, are you ready to step into the scales?

" the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God:

"for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai

"Saturday is my day of rest"

Adventist Heretic · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
It may be best to start a thread specifically on the mark of the beast from the Adventist perspective in the denomination specific section.

Then you can get folks who have checked out on this conversation to get involved. And you can go through all the key chapters methodically.

if done it would have to be the Seal of God vs Mark of the Beast - (SDA)

Ceallaigh · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
I like details - when you skim over the details I pointed out in that post -- details that are in some cases just a matter of public record - you are getting to a dog-chase-tail result because the easy details are being ignored.

Another "skim past"??

1. Obviously Moody agreed that the Bible Sabbath of the seventh day - began for mankind in Eden as do the Confession of Faith quoted here - so "yes" BOTH sides agree on that point you just skimmed past. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

The point is the 4th commandment for Israel to START keeping the sabbath happen until Exodus 20:11

BobRyan said:
2. Moody also agrees that ALL TEN are written on the heart and STILL apply today - so "yes" BOTH sides agree on that point you just skimmed past.

What he doesn't agree on is that Saturday is the sabbath day.

BobRyan said:
3. As for "Moody himself" -- he stated he keeps Saturday as the Sabbath as I already showed you.

BobRyan said:
So while skimming past all the easy parts - you are getting to "circle back" and challenge them while also redirecting to other details where in fact "all do not agree".

Please stop being condensing. You can talk to me, without talking down to me.

BobRyan said:
However even your own Venn diagram post shoots your own method in the foot - because the intersecting part "still exists" even when other areas do not intersect. You are diagramatically showing the common ground element is absolutely factually true - even while giving your "overstated" comment as if it did not exist!!..

How in the world are we suppose to have "Missed that"??

I never said it doesn't exist. I said it doesn't exist as significantly as you say it does. There are some things Muslims and Christians agree on. But overall they are diametrically opposed to each other.

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

MMXX said: ↑
Based on Bob's comment, apparently it's believed that Adam and Eve kept the sabbath. I guess when some folks are taught something, it sticks like glue.

out of curiosity - do you have an answer to this?

BobRyan said:
Since you already saw all the confession of faith making that same point and D.L. Moody making that same point (and obviously Ex 20:11 makes that case in pointing directly to Gen 2:1-3) As we saw here - - #761 and here #827 -- how "odd" it now appears that you are spinning it as if I am the source or the one promoting it for Bible scholars in almost all denominations. Why do that??

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

MMXX said:
I never said it doesn't exist. I said it doesn't exist as significantly as you say it does

My statement was that we see agreement on a few key details (notice -- details) does exist -- and it is irrefutable as it turns out. You are not making any effort at all to deny the specifics .. just more skimming?

======================
notice..

1. Obviously Moody agreed that the Bible Sabbath of the seventh day - began for mankind in Eden as do the Confession of Faith quoted here - so "yes" BOTH sides agree on that point you just skimmed past. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

2. Moody also agrees that ALL TEN are written on the heart and STILL apply today - so "yes" BOTH sides agree on that point you just skimmed past.

3. As for "Moody himself" -- he stated he keeps Saturday as the Sabbath as I already showed you.

=============

None of which you refute with any detail at all other than "they don't agree significantly"??

If these are not significant details how is it that these are the very details where you object? by ... objecting?

Ceallaigh · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
ok - but for the record you keep asking me to post previous responses - which is a pretty good indication that you are simply not reading them.

That's right Bob, I haven't read anything you've posted. Bye.

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

MMXX said:
There are some things Muslims and Christians agree on. But overall they are diametrically opposed to each other.

so then it would be pretty silly to take the points where they all agree and argue "Hmm I don't I agree on this part" -- obviously. How much easier could this get?

Adventist Heretic · Jul 30, 2021

MMXX said:
That's right Bob, I haven't read anything you've posted. Bye.

game playing

tall73 · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
out of curiosity - do you have an answer to this?

He has stated much of his time is away from his computer, when he must be at work and can't dig into the details. So rather than spend time interacting with him on the topic talking about Moody, perhaps limiting it to the particular Bible texts you would like him to examine would be best.

He agreed with @LoveGodsWord that Hebrews 4 is significant, and will look over it. Perhaps there are other Scriptures you want him to review.

We can all agree that others besides Adventists think the ten commandments are binding. He used poor phrasing. Let it go.

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

MMXX said:
What he doesn't agree on is that Saturday is the sabbath day.

What he does agree to is that Saturday was the Sabbath in Eden (the seventh day ) and he does agree that Christ was raised on the first day of the week - Sunday.

tall73 · Jul 30, 2021

icedragon101 said:
game playing

I think it was a passive aggressive response. But it is also a reaction to not being up to speed on the issues, trying to get up to speed, but having limited time, and information coming at him from all angles.

And while he didn't immediately understand what Bob meant, he was trying to read things.

Asking him to respond to the Bible text if he is going to draw conclusions makes sense.

Asking him about Moody and the Westminster confession, to me seems not all that helpful when he has said he has limited time.

Ceallaigh · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
He has stated much of his time is away from his computer, when he must be at work and can't dig into the details. So rather than spend time interacting with him on the topic talking about Moody, perhaps limiting it to the particular Bible texts you would like him to examine would be best.

I got tired of being talked down to, so I put him on ignore.

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
He has stated much of his time is away from his computer, when he must be at work and can't dig into the details. So rather than spend time interacting with him on the topic talking about Moody, perhaps limiting it to the particular Bible texts you would like him to examine would be best.

I started with Bible texts and am still referencing Ex 20:11 pointing to Gen 2:1-3 in today's posts. The response I get is that this is just my view or maybe it is not a solid fact. When I see that he and one or two others respond with "well Bob thinks they kept Sabbath in Eden" or "only SDAs think the ten are included in the New Covenant" - I object on the "detail" that even though they love to position it as "just Bob" or "just SDA"s - the actual factual documents on record show this is not true.

People can differ on ALL points if they wish - but at least we can agree to state the differences accurately

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
Asking him about Moody and the Westminster confession, to me seems not all that helpful when he has said he has limited time.

I only do that when they try to re-position the discussion in the form of "just SDAs claim this" or "Bob says" --

I don't mind differing - but we should at least be able to state differences accurately.

Many times those who are posting never come to agreement but who is benefited is the 'readers'

tall73 · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
I started with Bible texts and am still referencing Ex 20:11 pointing to Gen 2:1-3 in today's posts. The response I get is that this is just my view or maybe it is not a solid fact. When I see that he and one or two others respond with "well Bob thinks they kept Sabbath in Eden" or "only SDAs think the ten are included in the New Covenant" - I object on the "detail" that even though they love to position it as "just Bob" or "just SDA"s - the actual factual documents on record show this is not true.

People can differ on ALL points if they wish - but at least we can agree to state the differences accurately

He is new to the discussion, and the issues. He is bound to phrase things incorrectly or not conceive things accurately. Trying to get up to speed on a new area of theology is tough, and even more so in a debate setting.

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
He is new to the discussion, and the issues. He is bound to phrase things incorrectly or not conceive things accurately. Trying to get up to speed on a new area of theology is tough, and even more so in a debate setting.

Agreed. And if you will notice I am staying away from all the "other" more complicated aspects . (other folks will drag in every thing under the sun at times) I don't do that -- I am trying to just work with the very simplest basics where almost all Bible scholars do admit that it is obvious in the Bible.

So both the Bible texts and other sources to show that this is the easy part.

tall73 · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
I only do that when they try to re-position the discussion in the form of "just SDAs claim this" or "Bob says" --

I don't mind differing - but we should at least be able to state differences accurately

I think that point is made for the readers now. Let him move on from that gracefully. He is interested in studying the rest of it, but he is not willing to just agree to conclusions until he has prayed and thought it over, and read through all the information at once.

Wouldn't that be what you are looking for? Now I agree he didn't follow up on the details regarding Scripture posts. But he has said he can't do that when he is at work. And it probably is not best for him to immediately respond anyway. He needs to go read up and come back.

Adventist Heretic · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
I think it was a passive aggressive response. But it is also a reaction to not being up to speed on the issues, trying to get up to speed, but having limited time, and information coming at him from all angles.

And while he didn't immediately understand what Bob meant, he was trying to read things.

Asking him to respond to the Bible text if he is going to draw conclusions makes sense.

Asking him about Moody and the Westminster confession, to me seems not all that helpful when he has said he has limited time.

still looks like game playing, I can respect having other things to do, but just type "busy" or @work, no one want's to be messed with here.

tall73 · Jul 30, 2021

BobRyan said:
Agreed. And if you will notice I am staying away from all the "other" more complicated aspects . I am trying to just work with the very simplest basics where almost all Bible scholars do admit that it is obvious in the Bible.

I do notice that. And I also notice he read Moody, etc. because he was trying to follow your line of reasoning.

But if you were in an in-person Bible study would you press for the decision the moment you presented it all, or let him do as he said and pray and think over it?

I think it is a drawback here that people immediately press for decisions, and then once that post is out there and you get the alert you feel the need to respond right away and acknowledge the response. But I don't think he would have a basis for answering whether it has changed his mind yet.

BobRyan · Jul 30, 2021

tall73 said:
I think that point is made for the readers now. Let him move on from that gracefully. He is interested in studying the rest of it, .

I agree with giving people time . Not a problem

But I am very reluctant to get to areas where tons of differences abound - but that is the much more confusing "well that is just SDAs or that is Just Sabbath keepers that view it that say" - to be had in those areas --.. If you can get simple addition subtraction then division and multiplication are easier and then comes differential equation. I am reluctant to go straight for differential equations

Why do SDA preach

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