"No, you have made your position quite clear. I would add that the Law "Though shall not Kill" is mentioned only 5 times in the New Testament. Thou shall not Covet is only mentioned 2 times, the actual word only 4 times. The word "Sabbath" is mentioned 55 times in the New Testament.
I'm not sure this argument is relevant given all three are apart of God's Commandments."
It's only mentioned twice after acts ... are you saying that the Sabbath is a major Christian doctrine after this time?
In the scriptures you posted "Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience"
What is the example of disobedience Hebrews 4 talking about?
Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Who is the "them" here? The O.T. Jews, that chose not to "believe/obey" since the two are equal in scripture.
Please consider the previous chapter for God's answer to this question.
Heb. 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
So my friend, does this not tell us what "Example of Disobedience" we are not to follow? And what was their Sin? Shall we not go to these Examples to find out?
Ez. 20:10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
Their sin was disobeying the laws given at that time, including the Sabbaths. Shall we reinstitute the sacrificial system as well? Circumcision? Should we require that? it was a law ... even Moses broke it. Yes, the things the N.T. reinforces should be kept ... but there are only two, yes, two verses after acts that mention a Sabbath. And making a requirement of it? Are you going there? I feel that you are leaving the general meaning of the text to focus on a single issue that Paul is not focusing on here.
Heb 3:10 "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS'; 11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'" 12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Which sin? Is he specific? Is only the Sabbath law included here? Everything else is ok?
Do you believe these are the "Examples of Disobedience" we are told, in the verse you posted, NOT to follow? If not, then can you show me what Examples Heb. 4 is speaking to? Are you saying that God is commanding all Christians to obey all the Sabbath laws? That that is a requirement for salvation or something? Keep the Sabbath or go to hell?
Also, what if I am born into a world with religions that don't listen to God? Like that isn't a given. ...
Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body "is" of Christ.
The "is" was added by the translators. It wasn't in the original transcript, which read something like "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ. The O.T. laws, the keeping of all these things is a shadow of the things to come AFTER those things ... i.e. the fullness of Christ and everything that is a part of that. Jesus was accused of eating too much, drinking too much, not keeping the Sabbaths ... yes, all of that is a shadow of what Christ brought.
CLV says it this way "which are a shadow of those things which are impending - yet the body is the Christ's" Yes, when the O.T. laws were given they were but a shadow of what came with Christ.
Consider that this was over 14 years since Jesus ascended. So there are still "shadows of things yet to come". Yes, when those things were given, when those things were enforced, they were but a shadow of the freedom we have in Christ. Ergo, we are no longer to be subject to them. "Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- "
Are you in agreement with this, or are you saying we must still keep the Sabbath law?
Then Paul said;
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
So who is it we are to humble our self to here? Shall I let the Judgment of the religions of this world "beguile me of the Promise"?
I am hoping we can have a honest, unbiased examination of Scriptures, for the edification of us both. And I look forward to your take and answer to the questions I posed.
Thanks for your reply.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure this argument is relevant given all three are apart of God's Commandments."
It's only mentioned twice after acts ... are you saying that the Sabbath is a major Christian doctrine after this time?
In the scriptures you posted "Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience"
What is the example of disobedience Hebrews 4 talking about?
Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Who is the "them" here? The O.T. Jews, that chose not to "believe/obey" since the two are equal in scripture.
Please consider the previous chapter for God's answer to this question.
Heb. 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
So my friend, does this not tell us what "Example of Disobedience" we are not to follow? And what was their Sin? Shall we not go to these Examples to find out?
Ez. 20:10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
Their sin was disobeying the laws given at that time, including the Sabbaths. Shall we reinstitute the sacrificial system as well? Circumcision? Should we require that? it was a law ... even Moses broke it. Yes, the things the N.T. reinforces should be kept ... but there are only two, yes, two verses after acts that mention a Sabbath. And making a requirement of it? Are you going there? I feel that you are leaving the general meaning of the text to focus on a single issue that Paul is not focusing on here.
Heb 3:10 "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS'; 11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'" 12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Which sin? Is he specific? Is only the Sabbath law included here? Everything else is ok?
Do you believe these are the "Examples of Disobedience" we are told, in the verse you posted, NOT to follow? If not, then can you show me what Examples Heb. 4 is speaking to? Are you saying that God is commanding all Christians to obey all the Sabbath laws? That that is a requirement for salvation or something? Keep the Sabbath or go to hell?
Also, what if I am born into a world with religions that don't listen to God? Like that isn't a given. ...
Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body "is" of Christ.
The "is" was added by the translators. It wasn't in the original transcript, which read something like "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ. The O.T. laws, the keeping of all these things is a shadow of the things to come AFTER those things ... i.e. the fullness of Christ and everything that is a part of that. Jesus was accused of eating too much, drinking too much, not keeping the Sabbaths ... yes, all of that is a shadow of what Christ brought.
CLV says it this way "which are a shadow of those things which are impending - yet the body is the Christ's" Yes, when the O.T. laws were given they were but a shadow of what came with Christ.
Consider that this was over 14 years since Jesus ascended. So there are still "shadows of things yet to come". Yes, when those things were given, when those things were enforced, they were but a shadow of the freedom we have in Christ. Ergo, we are no longer to be subject to them. "Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- "
Are you in agreement with this, or are you saying we must still keep the Sabbath law?
Then Paul said;
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
So who is it we are to humble our self to here? Shall I let the Judgment of the religions of this world "beguile me of the Promise"?
I am hoping we can have a honest, unbiased examination of Scriptures, for the edification of us both. And I look forward to your take and answer to the questions I posed.
Thanks for your reply.[/QUOTE]
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