Born again.

BNR32FAN said:

He already said they were not of this world. They didn’t need the Holy Spirit yet because Jesus was still with them. No one had received the Spirit yet and already thousands believed.

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John 20:22 - ". . .he breathed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit."

We're talking about two different things--rebirth, and special manifestation (tongues) at Pentecost, which can occur at the same toime, but not necessarily.

John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

Translated back to the Greek, it means born "from above"

JulieB67 said:

Translated back to the Greek, it means born "from above"

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Which would be born "of the Holy Spirit."

Jesus starts off with this verse,

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." The word "again" being Greek word anothen, meaning from above. He goes on talking and teaching to Nicodemus and reiterates verse 3 with this verse- it being all in the same context,

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven." Again, this is simply Christ reiterating what he stated in verse 3.

Everyone assumes this verse is only talking about Christ but it says -even the son of Man. The subject hasn't changed and Christ is stating that no man can ascend up to heaven but that he that came down from heaven. This is exactly what he told Nicodemus with the first verse putting in the right translation -.."except a man be born from above (heaven) he cannot see the kingdom of God."

To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

Peter said 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word of here is the greek word ek and it means:

out of, from, by, away from

This denotes that being born is out of a seed ! Those who are born physically out of Adam, the corruptible seed, they were in Adam from the beginning of creation. Their physical lives were included in the them . Gen 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


When Adam was first created he had created within him his wife and his offspring that he was to bring forth, this we know because God said to him after He created him Gen 1:27-28

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

Adam had a seed to bring forth of his kind as all living creatures did.

We know God had given them a seed from these words Gen 3:15

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her [Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Of course Eve's seed was Adam's seed.

Gen 4:25

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Now hopefully we see the concept of being born entails first having a existence in a seed. Unfortunately being of ones seed is not determined by the offspring.

For instance, Levi did not determine himself to be of the seed of Abraham, to be in Abraham's loins as here Heb 7:9-10

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Who determined that Levi was of the seed of Abraham ?

Brightfame52 said:

To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

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"Born again" and "born out of" are two different things.

"Born again" refers to resurrection from spiritual death into eternal life.

"Born again not of. . .but of" (1 Peter 2:23) refers to the reason for the spiritual death; i.e., we are Adam's seed.

Peter said 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word of here is the greek word ek and it means:

out of, from, by, away from

This denotes that being born is out of a seed ! Those who are born physically out of Adam, the corruptible seed, they were in Adam from the beginning of creation. Their physical lives were included in the them . Gen 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


When Adam was first created he had created within him his wife and his offspring that he was to bring forth, this we know because God said to him after He created him Gen 1:27-28

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

Adam had a seed to bring forth of his kind as all living creatures did.

We know God had given them a seed from these words Gen 3:15

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her [Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Of course Eve's seed was Adam's seed.

Gen 4:25

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Now hopefully we see the concept of being born entails first having a existence in a seed. Unfortunately being of ones seed is not determined by the offspring.

For instance, Levi did not determine himself to be of the seed of Abraham, to be in Abraham's loins as here Heb 7:9-10

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Who determined that Levi was of the seed of Abraham ?

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No one has addressed the question, on how did Levi become of the seed of Abraham, hence ensuring he would be born to Abraham's Family ? This will help to understand Jesus statement, ye must be born again !

Regeneration and being born again !

I find it to be no better time to include in this thread the Truth of regeneration while witnessing to the need of being born again. The truth of the matter is this, in order to be born again, one must first be regenerated. I know many think they are the exact same thing, but they are not, however they are related or connected to one another. Only those being regenerated by their Union with Christ shall be born from above . Now understand this, Regeneration is corporate or collective, and occurred all at once for the entire body of Christ or seed together, by virtue of their union with the risen Christ.6

The New Birth is Individual and occurs to each of the regenerated appointed time by God. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die

This applies equally to spiritually being born. The word born here is the hebrew word yalad and means:

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

to beget

The word is used in Isa 66:8

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Each of the regenerated shall be brought forth in their New Birth. Remember when James wrote James 1:18

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The word beget here means to bring forth, James here is describing the New Birth of those who had been regenerated. The word of Truth, which is the Gospel brings this New Birth to light or to manifestation.

Again, Regeneration is corporate, its the sum total of every member of Christ seed, having been in Him when died, was buried, and risen again, they rose together with Him, that was their regeneration from the dead as well, and their being seated together with Him in the Heavenlies [above]. You see when Christ laid down His Life for the Sheep, the Life of the church was laid also [ 2 Cor 5:14], and when He took it again and rose from the dead [Jn 10:17], it was a reproduction or regeneration. Isa 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This is the describing in prophecy, the regeneration of Christ [after death] and His Church in Union with Him see [ Eph 2:6] !

Define word regeneration !

In coming to a biblical understanding of the word regeneration, we shall define the word. Its used only Twice in the NT :

Matt 19:28

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The word in the greek is the feminine noun paliggenesia:

) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death

Its made up of two greek words palin which means:

anew, again

a) renewal or repetition of the action

b) again, anew

And the word genesis which means:

source, origin

a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

2) used of birth, nativity

3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life

It also means generation as in Matt 1:1

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

So the word can mean a New Generation, A new beginning, A New existence, or origin, A New source, a New reproduction.

Again, the New Birth is a outcome of this Regeneration.

One of the definitions of regeneration is :


a renewal or restoration of life after death

This Our Lord experienced, in His resurrection.

Acts 3:15

And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 13:34

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.


Rom 6:9-10

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

I could multiply scriptures, but the point is to show that in the sense of restoration of life after death, Christ experienced a regeneration.

I believe this is what He meant in Matt 19:28, when He says in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the Throne of His Glory.

When did this occur if not after His resurrection ? Scripture plainly intimates that after His suffering, His death and resurrection, He shall enter into His Glory. Lk 24:26,20

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Suffer what things ? see vs 20

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

When He rose from the Dead He became Lord of both the dead and the Living Rom 14:9

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

This word revive means the same as regeneration, a restoration of life after death.

After Christ's humiliating death, and His resurrection, He entered into His Mediatorial Glory as both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

He was invested with [from the Father] all power in both Heaven and Earth Matt 28:19

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

If these things were not entering into His Throne of Glory as stated in Matt 19:28, I don't know what is ?

And if so, thats the regeneration He spake of.

Now one more thing about the Matt 19:28, in the original there is no punctuation, that is the translators supply them as they deem it best to their Judgment. In light of that, there should have been a period after the words followed me instead of the comma.

And so it would read Matt 19:28

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me. In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus was specifically telling His Disciples, the ones who followed Him, the Twelve, that they would be Co Rulers with Him in the Spread of His Gospel Kingdom throughout the Earth. Perhaps what Jesus had in mind was this what He spake unto them earlier in Matt 16:17-19

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This I believe is a direct fulfillment of Isa 32:1

1Behold, a king[Jesus Christ] shall reign in righteousness, and princes[The Twelve] shall rule in judgment.

Now the main point hitherto is that Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead, is a regeneration and entering into His Glory !

More on Regeneration !

Now I have previously shown how the word regeneration can and does mean a renewing, a reviving, a restoring to Life after death, and that Christ's rising from the dead was a regeneration, whereby afterwards He entered into His Glory.

Again, the word regeneration is composed of two greek words, one being :

the word genesis which means: genesis

source, origin

a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

2) used of birth, nativity

Notice, its a birth.

Now how many scriptures are there that indicates Jesus Christ being a birth or begotten ?

Acts 13:33

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

The word begotten here is the greek word gennaō and means:


to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children

The raising up again and the begotten thee are analogous.

Col 1:18

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word for firstborn here in describing the resurrection of Christ, is the word tiktō and means:


to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)

a) of a woman giving birth

Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

So, it can be biblically established that Christ Resurrection from the dead was a Birth or a Generation.

Now, with that in mind, He was the Federal Head of a seed that was in Him, and when He rose from the dead, His seed rose with Him, that is His regeneration from the dead, was also their regeneration from the dead, for He rose not as a private individual, but as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

This is what Paul means also in Eph 2:6, that we were raised up together with Christ. Eph 2:6

6And hath raised us up together,[with Christ] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This is the regeneration of the Church, collectively, with their Head.

It is by this regeneration, the elect, who were in Christ when He arose, receive their New Birth.

1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Now notice this word begotten us again here, its the same word used in Acts 13:33, and peter uses the plural pronoun us, meaning He and all those who rose up with Christ from the dead.

The NIV translates 1 Pet 1:3 as this:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


ESV Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

GWT Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! God has given us a new birth because of his great mercy. We have been born into a new life that has a confidence which is alive because Jesus Christ has come back to life

And so, this is the regeneration of the Church, collectively with Christ's resurrection from the dead, and this sets the stage for each member of that seed in Christ, to be born again individually and experimentally.. This is why they are said to be born from above where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Cp Jn 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again[from above], he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Col 3:1

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

To be born again is to be born of that regenerated seed of Christ, where He sitteth on the right hand of God with all of His seed with Him.

The Washing of Regeneration !

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Now again, the view I have been sharing is making a distinction between regeneration and the new birth or being born again or born from above.

Regeneration is collectively having to do with all the members of Christ seed, that He is the Head of, The Church, and regeneration occurred when they in Him, were raised up together from the Dead. Eph 2:6 and Isa 26:19.

As Jesus was begotten from the dead Rev 1:5, so where they, His death to the Law was their death also. Rom 7:4a

Now, what occurred when Christ died for His seed ? A washing took place. Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

You see that ? Having Loved us and washed us, this is collectively all at once John is speaking of. This washing took place with Christ blood.

I believe this is the same washing of Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration. The word for washing here is the greek word loutron and means:

bathing, bath, the act of bathing


And it's from the root word louō which means:

to bathe, wash

And is the same word used in Rev 1:5 for wash.

Loutron the word in Titus 3:5 is also used for the washing described in Eph 5:26

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Notice also that the word washing of water by the word. Notice how the word is said to be washing, so this is not water baptism, but its the water of the Word.

The word water is the same word used in Jn 3:5 and its usage there is primarily in the same subject manner as here.

Also, it is stated, that after Christ resurrection, that before sitting down at the right hand of the Father, He had what ? Why, He had purified us from our sins. Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This again is a corporate or collective purging of all the seed He represented. The word purge is the word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ16

So again, a washing, a cleansing is being emphasized, and because its associated with the removal of guilt, blood must have been involved and redemption.

So, this is regeneration, and its corporate, and has to do with the cleansing and washing from sin of all the elect seed in Christ, and this sets the stage for the New Birth which I will deal with next.

Renewing of the Holy Ghost = New Birth

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

After and following and connected with the Regeneration [The washing by the blood of Christ] comes the renewing of the Holy Ghost, or the New Birth. The New Birth of the individual is based on the washing of regeneration or simply put, Christ Blood, they having been purged [legally] from the guilt of their sins that had been laid upon Christ. Let's look again at this purging Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our[collectively] sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This word purged is the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Notice that it states, its a expiatory sacrifice. What does that mean ? It means to make amends, to atone, so its related to the atonement.

The word atonement is used throughout the OT with that Ideal

Its the word kaphar and it is translated many times as purge:

Isa 6:7

7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

So here its related to having sin taken away !

Ps 79:9

9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

So all those whose sins were purged by the blood of Christ, shall be renewed by the Holy Ghost, which is the New Birth. The word renewing is the greek word anakainōsis and means:

a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better, Its from a root word which means to make new. To be changed into a new kind of Life.

You see, because the person has been regenerated, has been forgiven of all legal guilt before God, A New Life which corresponds to their Justification by the blood of Christ, is given them, the New Birth. This New Birth is given to all for whom Christ died and rose again for. Remember Paul said of Him, who was delivered for our offences and raised for our Justification Rom 4:25

All these shall be Born Again, born from above where Christ sitteth on the Right Hand of God !23

More on " Ye must be born again "

In John 3, Jesus was presenting an analogy, the Spiritual Birth with the earthly or natural birth of a person when He made the statement " Ye must be born again " or another time, and this birth must be from above. The flesh cannot be born over again, but within the Old Man a New Man is born, a New Man is Created as Per Eph 4:24 29

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This word created is the greek word ktizo and means:

to create
of God creating the worlds
to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform

This is describing the renewing of the Holy Ghost as per Titus 3:5, which the word renewing means:

a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better

So we see in comparing nature and The Spirit, when a natural child is conceived in the mothers womb, there was nothing on the part of the child that could cause it's own generation. It had no ability to command life. It does not choose whom its parents are, neither the time and place of it's birth. Ec 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Nor does it choose of its individuality and physical biology. The child is altogether passive as the words to be born again denotes. Its in the passive voice. It receives the nature that the parents pass on to it. It receives this life at inception, and so, the Spiritual Birth, the one being born again or from above had nothing to do with his or her spiritual birth any more than they had to do with their natural birth, they receive that spiritual life from a seed implanted within by the Holy Spirit.

The New Birth was nothing New !

The New Birth in and of itself was nothing New for the Children of Faith [OT Saints], it was just at that time a nameless reality, and began to be elaborated in the NT. For Abraham saw this Kingdom of God, which one needs to born again to see, and so did the Patriarch David, hence they were born again or from above. Now this will no doubt come as a shocker to those who are being deceived into believing that water baptism plays a part in being born from above. For who water baptized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or King David ?

The New Birth is not declared as fact in the OT scriptures but it's blessed effects were made evident in the lives of the those Saints, the Patriarchs, and Gentiles i.e Rahab, Ruth and perhaps Job,I say perhaps with Job because some contend he was a jew, but nevertheless, he was born again.

Heb 11:13 reads:

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Speaking of all the preceding Characters of Faith in vs 4-12, it is stated that they died in Faith having seen the promises afar off. The word seen here is the greek word eidō and it is the same word Jesus uses in Jn 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Thats what they saw or understood, the promises of the Kingdom. James 2:5

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Those that died in faith in Heb 11, Loved God ! They saw by Faith the Kingdom promised them.

All of these therefore had been born from above, born of the water and Spirit. If not, they could not have seen or believed or embraced the Promises or the promised Kingdom.

So the New Birth was not New at all.

Salvadore said:

A person is born again after hearing the Gospel, believing in Christ, repenting and being baptized. The person, being of sound mind, tries hard to follow Christ (I am speaking of attitude and heart; not necessarily good works). When the person fails, the person repents and is forgiven. Correct? This is a picture of a born-again Christian.

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In my opinion the second birth is summed up here.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Paul is Heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all. He laboring (through preaching and teaching) to form Christ in the Galatian believers. The second birth is the "new man" Christ Jesus in us.

Ye must be born again !

John 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Ye must be born again is a fundamental doctrine of Christ, and is the difference between God Revealed Religion[Christianity] and man made religions.

If we take away the necessity of the New Birth [by false teaching] then Christianity becomes another foul and hateful bird Rev 18:2

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The prevailing concept of men in all man made religions is that man has the ability to reform himself, change himself, yes even give himself a new birth, or have a hand in it. Yet scripture says Jer 13:23

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

The BBE Translation reads: Is it possible for the skin of the Ethiopian to be changed, or the markings on the leopard? Then it might be possible for you to do good, who have been trained to do evil.

The natural man believes in himself and believes through self effort, religious instruction, and a conducive environment, they can become Christians or acceptable characters before God; This no doubt was King Agrippa reasoning when he replied to paul thusly Acts 26:28

Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

A man must be born again[or from above] to receive Christ [who is from above],His Doctrine, to believe on His Name, that's taught here Jn 1:12-13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:32

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Vs 13 explains or gives reason for vs 12

Salvadore said:

A person is born again after hearing the Gospel, believing in Christ, repenting and being baptized.

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Dear Salvadore,
There is a pathway laid down by God for salvation. All mankind will travel it, step by step. Once a person can understand the pathway, they will also understand why Christians in this world are the way they are AND why there are nearly 2000 different denominations/sects, each with their own version of God's truth.

Let me explain further by presenting the "big picture".

Man's spiritual condition we have from birth is flawed. It was NOT a mistake by God. We were made that way on purpose so that our "flesh" controls us. That is why we are carnally minded and why Christ, while in a physical body, was not. Christ was spiritually perfect and this empowered Him to overcome this carnal world and never sin. But with mankind, we cannot overcome this world and we frequently sin as a result of our spiritual flaw.

It is not man's fault that we were created imperfect. God is responsible for our marred spiritual condition that causes us to sin.

Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, ...

So why did God make us spiritually flawed?

Since this Creation is for God's purpose of producing His offspring, He wants us to be "like" Him. And to be like Him, we must have a knowledge of "good and evil". God even created Satan to be our tempter and deceiver so that we would have a fuller experience of evil.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, ... I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Because of our spiritually flawed, carnally minded condition, we ALL become sinful evil creatures.

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Mankind's carnal nature is "hatred" towards God. And because of such, we can't understand Him or want to seek His ways.

On the other hand, Satan was created to fed upon the dust of the ground (Gen 3:14). The "dust of the ground" represents our carnal nature and that is why Satan works to destroy and deceive mankind.

When Adam and Eve were created spiritually flawed, they quickly become carnally minded. God put Satan in the Garden to do his work of tempting Eve so that she would sin. Eve could not have possibly done anything else but fall to his temptations. Eve even displayed the three causes of sin BEFORE she sinned.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (lust of the flesh), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (pride of life), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

God of course, knew Adam and Eve were carnally minded and would sin because He made them that way. And for this same reason, all of Adam & Eve's offspring sin as well. Mankind's sin was planned and caused by God so that we would experience evil. With God, "evil" is a tool that He uses for His good and righteous purposes. In this case, His purpose is to create His offspring who know good and evil.

But since mankind's sin spiritually separates us from God and because He wants children, He needed to create a pathway back to Himself for mankind. To accomplish that purpose, God the Father sent Christ to be our Savior:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

In our spiritually flawed, carnally minded condition, NO PERSON can be saved. We have all sinned and the penalty of sin is death (not eternal hell). For this reason, all mankind must die. This is an absolute truth that cannot be broken. The only solution is for mankind to be "born again" from the death we all must pay.

Christ's work on the cross, gave Him the legal authority to raise us from the grave and to give us this new life. He did not die on the cross to keep us from paying the penalty of sin. He died on the cross so that our spiritually flawed vessel (which must be destroyed) can be made into a new spiritually perfect vessel.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

In our created spiritually flawed condition, we all reject God and cannot "choose" Him. There is nothing good within mankind. We do not have the ability to make a "free will" choice to accept Christ. No man has that ability in our spiritually marred created condition. The only way we can "choose" Christ is for Christ to individually come to us FIRST and change us from within. He does this work by giving us the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Jam 5:7-8 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

When Christ does this work within us, we ALL fall to the ground and call Him "Lord" - just as Paul "typed" for us on the Damascus Road, Acts 9:3-9. There are NO EXCEPTIONS.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Herein lays the GREAT mystery of the church (Eph 5:32). The Early Rain of the Spirit is only an "earnest amount" of the Holy Spirit and will not save us. Because of this partial measure of the Spirit, we remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) and controlled by our carnal nature. As a result, Satan can and does easily deceive us.

When Satan comes to a new believer, he masquerades as an "angel of light" (Christ).

2Cor 11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

We accept this deception because we are spiritually blind and don't yet have the ability to truly know Christ. Satan then feeds us his lies (leavened bread via his "ministers"), which we readily accept as the truth of Christ because his lies are pleasing to our carnal nature.

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Satan's ministers hide "leaven" in the meal until the whole loaf is secretly leavened with Satan's lies. Since we all eat from this leavened loaf shortly after receiving the Early Rain, we all come under Satan's deceptions. And since the leaven is "hidden" in the loaf, we don't even know that Satan is deceiving us.

Christ explained this process again this way:

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation

Evil spirits represent Satan bringing his false truth to us. Since we remain spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, we cannot replace our false beliefs of the world with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more (the spirit of anti-Christ) since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number eight spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. Our new spiritual condition is "worse than the first". Paul calls this worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

After the Early Rain, our deadly head wound to our Old Man (carnal nature) that came from the sword of Christ is healed because of Satan's deceptions.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Instead of solely approaching Christ by Faith (New Covenant), we begin approaching Christ by "works" (the Old Covenant). As a result, we remain a part of the Seven-Headed Beast (mankind) and the death that we needed to pay to satisfy our sin debt, remains unpaid.

This happens because our carnal nature which still lives because of Satan's deceptions, PREFERS the Old Covenant of Works over the New Covenant of Faith:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

After coming under Satan's deceptions and eating the "little book", we become "worse than before" (Man of Sin). We have truly "fallen away" and have returned "works" for our salvation. This is the one and only sin that leads to our spiritual death (1John 5:16). And from this death, we cannot be renewed by repentance:

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common belief that causes us to "fall away". We use this false belief system to differentiate us from why unbelievers are worthy of "hell" and why believers are not. We falsely believe that we made the right "choice" from our supposed "free will" because we were smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who rejected Christ. But in truth, we are not. It was ONLY because of Christ's work (Early Rain) within us that caused us to accept Christ as "Lord".

What I have stated above is part of the wide pathway that leads to destruction. We ALL MUST and WILL travel it since our vessel must be destroyed before we can receive a new vessel (be "born again").

Because a fallen away believer cannot be renewed by repentance, they will remain in this lost, spiritually worsened condition until either they physically die OR Christ comes to them a second time.

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Salvadore said:

A person is born again after hearing the Gospel, believing in Christ, repenting and being baptized. The person, being of sound mind, tries hard to follow Christ (I am speaking of attitude and heart; not necessarily good works). When the person fails, the person repents and is forgiven. Correct? This is a picture of a born-again Christian.

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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST...

In this age, Christ is only working to save His Elect, the First-Fruits of the harvest of mankind. They have been chosen from the foundation of the world and are the ONLY ones who are going to be saved at this time.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

However, the rest of mankind has not been forgotten by Christ but they will have to wait to the final age to be saved. Since mankind's salvation is 100% the work of Christ, no man can change the timing of their own salvation. The Elect are saved now in this age. In the final age, all Gentiles will be saved next. Then after their "fullness" has come in, the remaining part of Israel will finally be saved.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Mat 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

If a person has been chosen from the foundation of the world, Christ will not let them die in their sins. He will come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the same event the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost and it is the same event Paul "typed" for us when he received the Holy Spirit after being "in bed" for three days in Damascus. THIS IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST THAT IS COMMONLY TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE. When Christ comes to us a second time, He comes as a thief in the night to destroy the Man of Sin whom we have become. When this happens, the path that leads to destruction is complete and the New Man in Christ is born. It is at this point the chosen believer begins traveling the Narrow Path that leads to maturity as a son of God.

What I have stated above is an abbreviated summary of how Christ saves one of His chosen Elect in this age. They are the First-Fruits of His harvest of mankind.

And as I said earlier, Christ will not forget the rest of mankind and will NOT leave them to rot in the field. In the final age, at the end of the harvest season (Feast of Tabernacles), Christ will finish His work and bring in the full harvest of mankind. Then it will be testified to be true that ALL who died in Adam is the same ALL who will be made alive in Christ.

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, EVEN SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God does not fail and He never makes mistakes. What mankind is experiencing now is how God reproduces Himself in His children. This is the meaning of life that seems to elude most people. Why? Because we are made spiritually blind and cannot know what God is doing until we receive the Latter Rain.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Mankind is not restored to the Father because of our "will". We are restored to the Father because it is God's "will" for it to happen. God is not a respecter of persons. All mankind will be saved and we will all travel the same pathway for that salvation. The only difference is “when” we complete the pathway and God decided that from the foundation of the world to satisfy His own purposes.

One final point I want to make. End-time prophecy is teaching about the pathway that leads to conversion. All End-time verses should be applied spiritually "within" us and not out in the world as is commonly taught. When the Latter Rain falls on one of God's chosen Elect, it causes a spiritual earthquake with lightning and thunder and trumpets. Our worldly carnal paradigm is destroyed and we are given a new paradigm in Christ. At that point, the sun is darkened and the moon is turned to blood. We no longer receive the natural light of this world. We now receive "light" (truth of God) directly from Christ.

I could have included many scriptures/parables that further support and explain what I have stated above but then this post would have turned into a book.

I am willing to answer any specific questions you might have.

Joe

It is not a command to do !

Jn 3:6-7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Ye must be born again is not Jesus giving a command for people to do. No more would Jesus command a person to be born Spiritually as He would command a person to be born physically, for its just not in mans power to be born.

vs 640

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When speaking of that which is born, its always in the passive voice, not the active voice.

However though it is not a imperative for one to go do, it is a biological necessity ! When I say biological, I means as in biology, having life. Man cannot give himself life, though its necessary to have in order to perform functions in life.

You see men by nature is only flesh, and corrupt sinful flesh, so says Jesus in vs 6. The flesh can be reformed, cultured and instructed, but it remains sinful flesh. The word flesh is generic as well and scripture uses it to constitute man as a whole, soul and body and spirit; And men by nature [flesh] is dead, dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; See Matt 8:22

Eph 2:1 is a biological condition. This does not mean that man has no living vitality, but its in a sphere that is alienated from the Life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Take plant life for example and Animal life, both have life, however there is a biological difference in their type of lives, Animal Life is of a Higher order than plant life, so it is with the Spiritual that is of the incorruptible seed Christ, and that Natural Life in Adam of corruptible seed. See 1 Pet 1:23.

We by natural birth are alive only in that Life derived from Adam, the sphere of the flesh Rom 8:5

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

And we are dead and alienated to the things of God all the while in the flesh. Even when and if we are super religious, and very sincere and serious about it, we are still only functioning in the sphere of the flesh. That is what Jesus was telling a very religious man at the time.

Nicodemus, ye must be born again, or there is no life in you. Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

To eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man is a evidence of life, of spiritual life. To believe on Him, for thats what to eat and drink mean here, we must have already have been given life from the dead. For its a spiritual eating and a spiritual drinking by Faith.