My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?

TedT

Member since Job 38:7
Jan 11, 2021
1,850
334
Vancouver Island
✟85,846.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We are made in the image of God. So if God is three in one that means we are three in one in some way, too.
Mmmmm, I don't think so.

GOD is three persons in a UNITY of divine attributes in which it is more correct to say GOD is ONE than GOD is three.

Being in HIs image cannot mean that for us at all, sigh.

Please consider that being made in HIS image might mean that we are suitable marriage partners for HIM (and others are not) by creation since that would seem to be HIS purpose in our creation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TedT

Member since Job 38:7
Jan 11, 2021
1,850
334
Vancouver Island
✟85,846.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
After 51 years, I cannot fully grasp the mystery of the trinity itself. How can it be the same and yet distinct?

Are not all apple trees the same, ie they all have apple tree dna and are not bats, rats or cats? Yet is not each apple tree distinct?

Now consider that GOD who is Spirit has no dna but GOD does have attributes which are defining characteristics.

The special nature of GODly characteristics, ie the omnis, are such that they create a UNITY [echad, unity as per Gen 2:24] of characteristics though not of persons therefore we can accept three person whose divine attributes make them to be ONE GOD.

:)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
These words from the cross have troubled many for centuries. There appears to be several possible explanations for Jesus saying this.

(1) Some claim that he was simply pointing to one of the Psalms as a way of showing others to have faith in God. Sorry, but most of my conservative Christian friends through the years have always told me that context is best used to interpret Scripture. Hence, the context of Jesus' suffering on the cross does not appear to lend itself to him pointing to one of the Psalms.
....

Your speculations just failed... then, because Lord Jesus QUOTING from Psalms 22, which is a prophecy about Christ's crucifixion given through king David about a thousand years before it happened, was His act of still TEACHING even while upon His cross!

By quoting exactly from Psalms 22, He was teaching those present that it is HE, The Son of God prophesied by the Old Testament prophets! (David being one of them).

So how dare you... to try and turn that around into a crap Message, you white-washed charlatan!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: TedT
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,434
11,980
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,167,694.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I'm not super duper knowledgeable about this subject but I would guess God the Father forsook him because of the fact that he was made to be sin for us (according to 2 Corinthians 5:21) and God the Father could not have sin in his presence.
How on earth can you claim this in the face of Job 1:6-12?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Mmmmm, I don't think so.

GOD is three persons in a UNITY of divine attributes in which it is more correct to say GOD is ONE than GOD is three.

Being in HIs image cannot mean that for us at all, sigh.

Please consider that being made in HIS image might mean that we are suitable marriage partners for HIM (and others are not) by creation since that would seem to be HIS purpose in our creation.

We have a body, soul, and a spirit according to 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Jesus said the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak (Matthew 26:41). This suggests that there is a personality (or mind) of a kind in regards to each.

Your physical body needs =
Water, food or meat, and sleep in order to function.

Your reborn spiritual body needs =
Word of God (water), doing the will of Christ just as Christ did the will of the Father (food or meat), and praise & worship (rest) in order to function.

Your physical body desires =
The union with a mate, happiness, usefulness with talents or work, beautiful things, relaxation, exhilaration, and a desire to be healthy.


Your reborn spiritual body desires =
Marriage to Christ, to be in the beauty or splendor of heaven, to be at peace with God, etc. The spirit also desires spiritual gifts, too.


The soul of man expresses his individuality. The body is the part of us that is world-conscious; the soul is self-conscious; and the spirit (that is born again) is God-conscious.

In other words...

There are three minds at work:

Soul = Mind that makes the ultimate decisions.
Body = Mind that can influence you into fleshy or worldly and or earthly matters.
Spirit Body (Born of God) = Mind that can influence you into the things of God.

This parallels the three persons of God:

Father = Person who makes the ultimate decisions.
Word = Person who died for our sins done in the flesh and can give you a new life.
Holy Spirit = Person who can influence & teach you the things of God.

And all three equally consist in being as one God.

So in conclusion...

We are triune beings made in God's image because God is triune.
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Satan wasn't sinning, he was doing his job.

Exactly.

Many aren't aware of what God was revealing about Satan in the Isaiah 10 chapter, with use of the title "the Assyria" as a symbolic name for Satan there. God shows that he is simply His punishing rod upon the rebellious. That's how we are to see Satan.

Some brethren have come out of paganism, and the pagan idea is that Satan is like co-equal in power with God, when he is not. Satan can only do what God allows him to do, and that is to use him as a whippin' stick upon the rebellious. When He is done with that whipping stick (i.e., Satan), He will throw it in the fire.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,185
US
✟1,441,619.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Exactly.

Many aren't aware of what God was revealing about Satan in the Isaiah 10 chapter, with use of the title "the Assyria" as a symbolic name for Satan there. God shows that he is simply His punishing rod upon the rebellious. That's how we are to see Satan.

Some brethren have come out of paganism, and the pagan idea is that Satan is like co-equal in power with God, when he is not. Satan can only do what God allows him to do, and that is to use him as a whippin' stick upon the rebellious. When He is done with that whipping stick (i.e., Satan), He will throw it in the fire.

I basically agree with that, but I think the Lord was "done" with the whipping stick with the incarnation of the Son as Jesus.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,401
1,612
43
San jacinto
✟125,905.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My first venture into such discussions deviates a little from the dialogue. After 51 years, I cannot fully grasp the mystery of the trinity itself. How can it be the same and yet distinct? I have heard many attempts to draw closer to a resolution, but none are completely satisfactory.

A man can be a Son, Husband and Father as an individual. But this would not explain how only the Father knows the day and the hour of His return. But if they are distinct, how can "My father and I are One" be true?

I must conclude then that I do not understand fully even two of the three parts of the trinity. Perhaps it is beyond mortal ability and something which will be revealed in eternity.

But to the quote from the cross, I see nothing inconsistent with any of the viewpoints. They point to prophesy and the psalms. They also point to God as Father not looking upon sin as Jesus as Son bore OUR sin. This doesn't necessarily indicate a break in the unity if we could grasp the mystery of the Trinity.
Trinity is an analogy for something we cannot directly apprehend. With regard to us(how we experience God), God is singular. There is no distinction between Father/Son/Spirit as all are God. But in His inner experience(how God experiences God), there is a relationship, an eternal giving between Father/Son/Spirit such that God is love without needing creation to receive His love.

This is important for the cross as Jesus cannot be forsaken by God at any moment or else that eternal relationship is broken, if that were the case then there's a moment when Jesus was not God but was a created being. That cannot be true, so Jesus cannot literally be forsaken even for a moment.
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I basically agree with that, but I think the Lord was "done" with the whipping stick with the incarnation of the Son as Jesus.

I assume you're referring to John 12:31, which Lord Jesus said just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified...

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
KJV


Did the "judgment of this world" happen on that day of Christ's crucifixion, or at His resurrection from the dead? I don't see it, as the evil in this present world still continues. Likewise, with that casting out, I see that linked with the future event of Revelation 12:7-17 when Satan and his angels are cast out of the heavenly dimension down to earth in 'our' dimension for the end of this world (i.e., the tribulation).

And in 1 Peter 5:8, Apostle Peter was still warning about Satan as a roaring lion is walking about seeking whom he may devour. That means Satan definitely is still not yet bound today, and is still at work.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,140
20,185
US
✟1,441,619.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I assume you're referring to John 12:31, which Lord Jesus said just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified...

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
KJV


Did the "judgment of this world" happen on that day of Christ's crucifixion, or at His resurrection from the dead? I don't see it, as the evil in this present world still continues. Likewise, with that casting out, I see that linked with the future event of Revelation 12:7-17 when Satan and his angels are cast out of the heavenly dimension down to earth in 'our' dimension for the end of this world (i.e., the tribulation).

And in 1 Peter 5:8, Apostle Peter was still warning about Satan as a roaring lion is walking about seeking whom he may devour. That means Satan definitely is still not yet bound today, and is still at work.

Satan was "done" with his role as accuser of man in the presence of God at some point during Jesus' time on earth. It might have been when He attempted to bring Christ under his control in the wilderness (which was stepping beyond his boundaries). It might have been when Jesus said, "I saw Satan fall like lightning"...which might have been, like, that night.

I think Revelations 12:7-17 occurred while Jesus was on earth...notice that He is absent from mention during that war and the time Satan is cast down "with no place" anymore in heaven.

Whatever the precise timing might have been, in this Church Age Satan no longer has the role of accuser of man before God in heaven, but has been cast to earth where his wrath against the Body of Christ is manifest to this day.
 
Upvote 0
Jul 26, 2021
19
19
66
Orange
✟16,682.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Are not all apple trees the same, ie they all have apple tree dna and are not bats, rats or cats? Yet is not each apple tree distinct?

Now consider that GOD who is Spirit has no dna but GOD does have attributes which are defining characteristics.

The special nature of GODly characteristics, ie the omnis, are such that they create a UNITY [echad, unity as per Gen 2:24] of characteristics though not of persons therefore we can accept three person whose divine attributes make them to be ONE GOD.

:)
I did not mean to invoke all the attempts to grasp the trinity, just to admit that it is true, whether we can grasp it or not. It is conceptually the same as "blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believed."
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
7,840
2,533
Pennsylvania, USA
✟745,599.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
These words from the cross have troubled many for centuries. There appears to be several possible explanations for Jesus saying this.

(1) Some claim that he was simply pointing to one of the Psalms as a way of showing others to have faith in God. Sorry, but most of my conservative Christian friends through the years have always told me that context is best used to interpret Scripture. Hence, the context of Jesus' suffering on the cross does not appear to lend itself to him pointing to one of the Psalms.
(2) I recall a Baptist preacher 50 years ago who spoke about these words on Palm Sunday and he said that Jesus felt forsaken on the cross by the Father and this was Jesus' way of expressing his isolation at the moment. While this explanation seems a little better than the first one, it is still not very satisfying for many of us. Even Luther tried to do a sermon on these words, but could not understand how God could forsake God.
(3) Jesus was not God, but merely the Son of God and thus truly did feel forsaken by God on the cross.
(4) Perhaps the best explanation of all is one that many of you will refuse to consider, as it could pose a problem for those who believe that the Holy Spirit protects Scripture from making any errors of significant importance. While doing online research recently, I came across what is reportedly an Aramaic translation of these words and it goes like this: "My God, my God, for this I was destined". I must say that this reported Aramaic translation makes much more sense to me. Now it is true that such a change in Scripture is not really a change that directly impacts salvation, but it is still a significant change from the translations that virtually all of us are used to seeing.

What do the rest of you think of these words from the cross? Is it quite possible that the Greek translation erred in the meaning of Jesus' intent and that this reported Aramaic translation is the accurate one?

I believe the Lord is taking on our natural fear of death as part of His suffering for our salvation.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Reluctant Theologian

אַבְרָהָם
Jul 13, 2021
273
151
53
ZH
✟68,436.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I'm confused. The entirety of the Bible was written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. That is, by one of the persons of God. He cannot contradict Himself and neither can His words be hidden or obscured, since that would mean He made a mistake somewhere. So how could the possibility of another translation that means something very different from what we find in the Scriptures even be seriously considered?

What you appear to be saying is that the writers of the two Gospels where this phrase appears got something badly wrong (or their translators did). But given what I just stated, that's impossible.

I could post what I believe the phrase itself means, but I would like to hear your answer first, please.

You may be taking the 6th century version of Trinitrian + inerrancy thinking too much to the extreme here; causing logic and consistency problems for you. Here's my personal alternative view on it:

- don't speak of God the Father or the Holy Spirit using the English word 'person' (='human being' according to any contemporary English dictionary); both are spirits according to the Biblical texts, so the term 'person' nowadays is very misleading and confusing.
- the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of God = the Spirit of YHWH = the Spirit of Jesus (several Biblical texts mention those and refer to the same Spirit)
- in Hebrew the word 'spirit' (Ruach) means 'breath'; so 'the spirit of YHWH (or God)' ~ 'the breath of YHWH (or God)'

All scripture is God-breathed says 2 Peter - I take that to mean 'inspired' and only applying to the OT texts that were recognised as 'writings' in those days, certainly not the NT writings we now also have. (but e.g. although Song of Songs was part of the Greek LXX translation of the OT, it was not yet recognised as 'canonical' in Jesus' days.)

Biblical scholars dedicate their lives to the search and reconstruction of the most probable original texts of both the OT and the NT books (textual criticism). That is really quite hard as no one has the originals; we only have copies of copies of copies, etc, and also with various slight textual variances; some with minor theological implications, some with big implications. As soon as you delve into this world you will quickly find out the whole inerrancy debate becomes moot as we're not 100% sure what the original text was; we can only make best effort assumptions.

The good news: being aware of that does not have to kill your faith :) At least my faith is very much still alive!!

Now to go back to Psalm 22; both our best Masoretic (Hebrew) text + the Greek LXX translation (http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/24-ps-nets.pdf) are pretty much in agreement here, so I trust the text we have is reliable enough to prefer the 'traditional' English translation as opposed to the mentioned Aramaic one.

God, and God's Spirit inspired authors, worked through writers, copyists, maybe even translators, all resulting in the various (and sometimes slightly disagreeing) translations we now have. But I don't have to claim total inerrancy for the hard copy translations I possess; I find that impossible (and unnecessary) to defend.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Reluctant Theologian

אַבְרָהָם
Jul 13, 2021
273
151
53
ZH
✟68,436.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
These words from the cross have troubled many for centuries. There appears to be several possible explanations for Jesus saying this.
...
(2) I recall a Baptist preacher 50 years ago who spoke about these words on Palm Sunday and he said that Jesus felt forsaken on the cross by the Father and this was Jesus' way of expressing his isolation at the moment. While this explanation seems a little better than the first one, it is still not very satisfying for many of us. Even Luther tried to do a sermon on these words, but could not understand how God could forsake God.
(3) Jesus was not God, but merely the Son of God and thus truly did feel forsaken by God on the cross.
...
What do the rest of you think of these words from the cross? Is it quite possible that the Greek translation erred in the meaning of Jesus' intent and that this reported Aramaic translation is the accurate one?

Psalm 22 is about David, and about the Messiah, and it's beneficial to take the entire Psalm 22 context into account. Jesus apparently identifies with David's position and attitude here, so if the one who is the Son of God, and who came down from heaven, died, that is pretty much the lowest point - so from Jesus' perspective God had 'left' him at that moment. God is life, and Jesus died - that's a direct link (but nowhere in the Biblical texts we read that 'God died').

Now in Psalm 22 the David/Messiah figure is calling out to 'El', 'Elohim'; and the David/Messiah figure is distinct from YHWH in Psalm 22:8 :

He (=David/Messiah) trusts in YHWH;
let him (=YHWH) deliver him (=David/Messiah);
let him (=YHWH) rescue him (=David/Messiah),
for he (=YHWH) delights in him (=David/Messiah)!​

Also in the NT at various other places we find direct references to the 'God of Jesus':

John 20:17
I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.​
2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, ...​
Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ...​
Ephesians 1:17
.. that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, ...​
Hebrews 10:5-7 / Psalm 40:6-8
I delight to do your will, O my God; ...​
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! ...​

The pattern IMHO is quite clear: God the Father was (during Jesus' ministry on earth), and still is (after His ascension) the God of Jesus.

In the NT we find the phrase 'the Son of God' many times, but never 'the Son of God the Father'. Many times we find that Jesus is 'at the right hand of God (or Majesty)' (about 10 times in the NT), but nowhere do we find the phrase 'at the right hand of God the Father'.

All this is consistent with God the Father = the God of Jesus, and hence, the inherent authority hierarchy between them, as is expressed in:

1 Corinthians 11:3
.. that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.​

So far my observations ..
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Psalm 22 is about David, and about the Messiah, and it's beneficial to take the entire Psalm 22 context into account. Jesus apparently identifies with David's position and attitude here, so if the one who is the Son of God, and who came down from heaven, died, that is pretty much the lowest point - so from Jesus' perspective God had 'left' him at that moment. God is life, and Jesus died - that's a direct link (but nowhere in the Biblical texts we read that 'God died').
Now in Psalm 22 the David/Messiah figure is calling out to 'El', 'Elohim'; and the David/Messiah figure is distinct from YHWH in Psalm 22:8 :

He (=David/Messiah) trusts in YHWH;
let him (=YHWH) deliver him (=David/Messiah);
let him (=YHWH) rescue him (=David/Messiah),
for he (=YHWH) delights in him (=David/Messiah)!
Also in the NT at various other places we find direct references to the 'God of Jesus':
John 20:17

I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, ...
Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ...
Ephesians 1:17
.. that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, ...
Hebrews 10:5-7 / Psalm 40:6-8
I delight to do your will, O my God; ...
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! ...
The pattern IMHO is quite clear: God the Father was (during Jesus' ministry on earth), and still is (after His ascension) the God of Jesus.
In the NT we find the phrase 'the Son of God' many times, but never 'the Son of God the Father'. Many times we find that Jesus is 'at the right hand of God (or Majesty)' (about 10 times in the NT), but nowhere do we find the phrase 'at the right hand of God the Father'.
All this is consistent with God the Father = the God of Jesus, and hence, the inherent authority hierarchy between them, as is expressed in:
1 Corinthians 11:3

.. that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.
So far my observations ..
Might I suggest that you read and understand Philippians 2:6-11, which explains all those questions like "If Jesus was God why didn't He know the the day and the hour etc."
Philippians 2:6-11
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 
  • Agree
Reactions: RDKirk
Upvote 0

Reluctant Theologian

אַבְרָהָם
Jul 13, 2021
273
151
53
ZH
✟68,436.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Might I suggest that you read and understand Philippians 2:6-11, which explains all those questions like "If Jesus was God why didn't He know the the day and the hour etc."
Philippians 2:6-11
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Thanks for the suggestion! However, the given translation above for Philippians 2:6-11 (NIV) is problematic; the translation for this text has been subject for much debate (because of its Christological implications), but having studied the debate and looked at the Greek, personally I think the ESV and NASB translations are much better:

Philippians 2:6-11 (ESV)
6 who, though he was in the form (= Greek 'morphe') of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped (= Greek 'harpagmon'), 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form (= Greek 'morphe'), he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

Reasons for that:
  • the same word 'morphe' used in v6 and v8 is obviously used as a contrast, this contrast is kept in the ESV/NASB translations, but completely lost in the NIV one, as the meaning of 'appearance/form' was changed to 'being in very nature' in v6, which therefore is inconsistent and missing the contrast-based illustration of Jesus' humility.
  • the word 'harpagmon' (strong nr G725) occurs only once here in the NT, but its related verb 'harpazo' (strong nr G726) occurs 13 times in the NT (see the list at Strongs's #726: harpazo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools) and is always associated with taking something by action/force. That means the 'grasped' translation is a much better fit than the 'abused' translation.
  • the verses 9 and 11 convey the idea of God = God the Father, and that he is above Jesus; as it is God who 'exalts' and 'bestows', and ultimately the acknowledgment that Jesus is Lord is to the glory of God the Father. This makes no sense if Jesus was fully equal to God the Father in authority in the first place.
Apart from that, the NIV translation introduces logical problems:
  • if Jesus is declared to be 'in very nature God' (NIV); it is rather unexpected to talk about 'equality with God', but one would expect 'equality with God the Father'. As soon as we state something about the equality of <x> with God, then <x> cannot be God identity-wise, otherwise the statement makes no sense. If Jesus is God (capitalised) identity-wise, it is illogical to speak about Jesus' equality with God.
Taken all together, to me (and many others apparently :)), it seems the ESV/NASB translation is a much better fit with no logical problems.

Another mostly overlooked issue in Philippians 2:9 is the question of the name of Jesus. The verse implies the name 'Jesus' (~ meaning 'YHWH saves') is above every name; but 'Jesus' is not the new name for God, it refers to the name of God. When God (name 'YHWH') gives Jesus a name above every name (='Jesus'), it would be assumed that name is not above God's very own name 'YHWH'.

The same thought and pattern can be seen in:

1 Corinthians 15:27 (ESV)
For God has put all things in subjection under his (=Jesus) feet. But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he (=God) is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.​

Given 1 Corinthians 15:27 it would be consistent to assume the same exception would also hold for the name of God (=YHWH) and the name of Jesus.

Just my thoughts and analysis on these matters ...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums