Why does Christianity have denominations?

SongOnTheWind

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are most welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.
 

Dave L

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are most welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.
The church is very small.
 
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GallagherM

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Because of differing opinions and beliefs.

There is objective truth that is about the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ Jesus by God on the third day. After that even more truth about The Who, why, what, when, where, and how’s of the Bible to get a contextual understanding.

There are people who preach only the good news never moving forward in spiritual growth, and there are people who teach who desire to help others to grow in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ and move forward into becoming a spiritually mature Christian.

There are kinds of different measuring faith from really weak faith to really strong faith.

To get the source of truth God allowed us to have a reference guide to help us in our life called the Bible ; in which helps us to stay encouraged and motivated to continue to have hope, even through suffering.

There is also a lot of subjective truths on how people see from the Bible the way things need to be done or whatever that can even include authority.

I am a subjective believing Christian myself with the objective truth still intact because I see a lot of these letters where written to a living group of people back then.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are most welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.
People want denominations.
 
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Tolworth John

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth

What evidence do you have that Christians are not United over the ' truth '?

Being all in one physical organisation is not being United in the truth.
That is being United in an organisation.

To understand why there are denominations you should read about church history.
Your minister will be able to either lend you books or point you towards what books you should buy.

Go round the churches in your area and compare how much they differ as well as how much they agree.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Because of differing opinions and beliefs.

There is objective truth that is about the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ Jesus by God on the third day. After that even more truth about The Who, why, what, when, where, and how’s of the Bible to get a contextual understanding.

There are people who preach only the good news never moving forward in spiritual growth, and there are people who teach who desire to help others to grow in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ and move forward into becoming a spiritually mature Christian.

There are kinds of different measuring faith from really weak faith to really strong faith.

To get the source of truth God allowed us to have a reference guide to help us in our life called the Bible ; in which helps us to stay encouraged and motivated to continue to have hope, even through suffering.

There is also a lot of subjective truths on how people see from the Bible the way things need to be done or whatever that can even include authority.

I am a subjective believing Christian myself with the objective truth still intact because I see a lot of these letters where written to a living group of people back then.
Should it be this way, though? Isn't Jesus being the ABSOLUTE Way, Truth and Life not enough? What about the scripture I referenced in John 17:20-21?
 
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SongOnTheWind

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What evidence do you have that Christians are not United over the ' truth '?

Being all in one physical organisation is not being United in the truth.
That is being United in an organisation.

To understand why there are denominations you should read about church history.
Your minister will be able to either lend you books or point you towards what books you should buy.

Go round the churches in your area and compare how much they differ as well as how much they agree.
I would say that there are some denominations that believe in things that others definitely do not. I don't want to start an argument about it, but that is the way it is right now.
 
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com7fy8

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth?
yes

I notice how you say unified in "belief". You do not say "beliefs". Belief can mean faith in Jesus . . . trust. Not only holding to certain ideas.

And yes in Jesus we are unified, by being with Him.

But does God wants our beliefs . . . our ideas . . . to be the same?

I would say that as we become more unified with Jesus in us, He creates in us the beliefs He wants us to hold to. So, yes, our beliefs will become the same.

And does God's word say this is reasonable to expect?

"Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." (1 Corinthians 1:10)

This is what Paul our Apostle wrote to the Corinthians. People understand that the Corinthians were very unspiritual, living in very wrong ways; yet, Paul right in his first chapter told them that God expects such unity even from people who were failing like they were: they could repent and God is able to make us unified - - - how God is able . . . not merely how we might try and pressure and guilt-trip people to act nice and conform!

But Paul means to be unified in the same mind as Jesus > Philippians 2:5-11 > unified with Christ, not only with each other >


"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11)

Paul does say to have the same mind, not only the same beliefs. And He means . . . God means . . . the same mind as Jesus. Jesus in us shares this with us, as we grow in Jesus.

So, this is a basic of Christianity, then.

And I think we can see how the mind of Christ is not only a way of thinking. We do not need to only change the thoughts that are going on in our heads. But we need to have the character of love which has our minds the way Paul talks about in Philippians 2:5-11.

There is humility involved > Jesus is so un-conceited, that He the Son of God left Heaven itself in order to come to us and personally share with people here, and save us. And Jesus so suffered and died for us . . . not conceited, at all, and so obedient to our Father. The mind of Jesus in us brings us also to become like this . . . not only to think differently!

And so, yes, this takes character . . . in our spirit.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit," Jesus says. In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus starts right off with how to be . . . in our character of love > also >

meek

merciful

pure in heart

(Matthew 5:3-10)

Basic. This is how to be unified, not only outwardly conforming to ideas and practices.
 
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Albion

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I would say that there are some denominations that believe in things that others definitely do not. I don't want to start an argument about it, but that is the way it is right now.

The problem is that most Christian churches are populated by human beings. ;)

Humans are inquisitive and analytical, and because God and the afterlife are very serious topics, disagreements are going to occur.

While this is not the ideal, the only way to surmount this situation is for all to emphasize in charity what the denominations have in common and what is most important in the teachings. On that level, most of the divisions are in general agreement.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Fighting and bickering. That is the only evidence I could suggest. You can present the truth and someone revile you for it; that is when suffering occurs for the sake of the truth.
Then maybe we each need to get over ourselves and address our own individual issues so that we can all heal and grow in the truth? Is that so much to ask?

We already took the step of being born again, why can't we trust our God to restore us in all things? He even uses us, flawed as we are to minister to one another out of His Holy Spirit and His Word, so why not take that next step? We do we tolerate the hindrance that is division?
 
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SongOnTheWind

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The problem is that most Christian churches are populated by human beings. ;)

Humans are inquisitive and analytical, and because God and the afterlife are very serious topics, disagreements are going to occur.

While this is not the ideal, the only way to surmount this situation is for all to emphasize in charity what the denominations have in common and what is most important in the teachings. On that level, most of the divisions are in general agreement.
If we are already born again then we should be way past relying on our own logic and intellect. Isn't that the point?
 
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Albion

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If we are already born again then we should be way past relying on our own logic and intellect. Isn't that the point?
Well, it's not quite that simple because our "guidebook to God," the Bible, contains so much more information from God that covers daily living, interpersonal relations, and more that we understand should matter to the people of God. And that's where a lot of the disagreements occur.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11)

Paul does say to have the same mind, not only the same beliefs. And He means . . . God means . . . the same mind as Jesus. Jesus in us shares this with us, as we grow in Jesus.

I agree, he literally says it in the text. Jesus doesn't have to wrestle with belief because He already KNOWS. Knows it all. All of it. That is the mind we must have. Not just say we have it or act like we have it, but truly apply ourselves to His Word to have His mind - attitudes, behaviour and all - made manifest in us. Not relative truths or varying beliefs.

Same chapter I quoted as before:

John 17:3:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Not have some kind of belief about what the Father might possibly be, but knowing Him, whom to know is eternal life!

So if that is what Christ was praying, and we know whatsoever He asks from the Father, the Father will give Him, why can't we submit to that? What is it that is in us that is giving us such huge issues and insecurities about it all?
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

I agree on the OP. But your OP is a little dangerous in that people post things and maybe don't realize the full ramifications of things.

A lot of it has to do with things like the verse

Amos 3:3
King James Version


3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?



The problem is different people have different ideas of what proper Christian doctrine is and what a given interpretation of the Bible on a passage or number of passages is.


On the personal side, when I find a Protestant who is a "Bible believer" but also very derogatory against traditional Church teaching I always have this kind of issue in the back of my mind. Because many people don't realize how subjective Bible interpretation really can be (in fact this argument came up with last week with such a person). Anyway while the older Apostolic Churches are divided based on issues especially relating to a precise view of Christology they generally agree on a great large body of things, basically the main body of teaching outside of things like the nature of the Pope. And if you look at scripture, like saint Paul talking about "the milk of the word" as opposed to "the meat" that sort of thing is actually important. There are lots of verses in the Bible that also relate to it especially in regards to confusion etc.



I will also note, that I believe that in the long term that I think the notion of united church was something that was impossible in the long term of things. If you go back in time, to before Christianity was legalized, to afterword Christianity had exponential growth. But in the early days, Christian on a given city liked to meet together for worship because they were "one body" And they soon outgrew where they worshipped at because of this. But this sort of thing was OK, because the early church also followed the early Jewish customs regarding things consecrated to God. Basically the early Christians, especially the rich folk would give up their homes and other properties so their would be a dedicated church / sanctuary to meet at. But in the old Jewish tradition that you can see in the book of Deuteronomy things that are dedicated to God cannot be take back for common use. So anyway, when the local church moved out of one place to another, the older building still stayed in service as a place for believers of that area to still use and meet at like a local chapel, parish etc. compared to the cathedral where the whole city tried to worship once a week. But eventually as things kept going it was impossible to find a building to house everybody, so at that point the Christians of the area accepted the idea of multiple services in an area at different locations and times.



Anyway you got something similar with thee Church. Before the days of modern communications like telephones, email, TV and so on. It would really be difficult to eventually be impossible to have a united church, when you have people spread out over thousands of miles: from Africa and Asia Minor, into Europe, into the rest of Asia. Besides dealing with large bodies of water, mountains and deserts etc. as far as barriers to sending messages you got bandits, not to mention nations and empires being at war with each other and considering anybody from the outside or the hostile nation or empire an enemy including people who are clergy, messengers etc.


But of course the real issue is human nature. We get many blessings with Christ's sacrifice, but the one thing we do not get is a renewed mind, we have to work for that, as well as to in general be conformed into the Image of Christ and well when that doesn't happen it causes problems like division.
 
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com7fy8

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So if that is what Christ was praying, and we know whatsoever He asks from the Father, the Father will give Him, why can't we submit to that? What is it that is in us that is giving us such huge issues and insecurities about it all?
While we are at it, here is more of what Jesus claims in His prayer in John chapter seventeen >

"'I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.'" (John 17:23)

So, in the Lord's prayer, He claims that we will be made perfect in one, plus our Father loves us as He loves His own Son Jesus.

So we need, then, to trust God for all which is possible with Him. And actively seek His correction so we share this with Him through Jesus and helping each other.

But people get their attention elsewhere.

But we know how God succeeds in and through all the evil of this world. So, yes we can do well, in spite of divisions >

"For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you." (1 Corinthians 11:18-19)

So, it looks to me like Paul is saying he is not worried about the divisions, because God can use factions to make the "approved" leaders look good :)
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are most welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.
The result of doctrines of men overshadowing the Doctrines of God.
 
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BobRyan

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Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are most welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.

Because doctrine matters and it is sooooo easy for Christian groups to get bogged down in accumulated tradition instead of holding steadfastly to Acts 17:11 "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and practice.

Christ put it this way -

Mark 7:6-13
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

The result of doctrines of men overshadowing the Doctrines of God.

Exactly ! That is how Christ stated it in Mark 7.

The problem is that most Christian churches are populated by human beings. ;)

Humans are inquisitive and analytical, and because God and the afterlife are very serious topics, disagreements are going to occur.

Jesus is wayy more specific than that in Mark 7:6-13 in his demonstrating of doctrine and practice being tested "sola scriptura"
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Well, it's not quite that simple because our "guidebook to God," the Bible, contains so much more information from God that covers daily living, interpersonal relations, and more that we understand should matter to the people of God. And that's where a lot of the disagreements occur.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Avoidable, according to this verse.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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I agree on the OP. But your OP is a little dangerous in that people post things and maybe don't realize the full ramifications of things.

A lot of it has to do with things like the verse

Amos 3:3
King James Version


3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?



The problem is different people have different ideas of what proper Christian doctrine is and what a given interpretation of the Bible on a passage or number of passages is.


On the personal side, when I find a Protestant who is a "Bible believer" but also very derogatory against traditional Church teaching I always have this kind of issue in the back of my mind. Because many people don't realize how subjective Bible interpretation really can be (in fact this argument came up with last week with such a person). Anyway while the older Apostolic Churches are divided based on issues especially relating to a precise view of Christology they generally agree on a great large body of things, basically the main body of teaching outside of things like the nature of the Pope. And if you look at scripture, like saint Paul talking about "the milk of the word" as opposed to "the meat" that sort of thing is actually important. There are lots of verses in the Bible that also relate to it especially in regards to confusion etc.



I will also note, that I believe that in the long term that I think the notion of united church was something that was impossible in the long term of things. If you go back in time, to before Christianity was legalized, to afterword Christianity had exponential growth. But in the early days, Christian on a given city liked to meet together for worship because they were "one body" And they soon outgrew where they worshipped at because of this. But this sort of thing was OK, because the early church also followed the early Jewish customs regarding things consecrated to God. Basically the early Christians, especially the rich folk would give up their homes and other properties so their would be a dedicated church / sanctuary to meet at. But in the old Jewish tradition that you can see in the book of Deuteronomy things that are dedicated to God cannot be take back for common use. So anyway, when the local church moved out of one place to another, the older building still stayed in service as a place for believers of that area to still use and meet at like a local chapel, parish etc. compared to the cathedral where the whole city tried to worship once a week. But eventually as things kept going it was impossible to find a building to house everybody, so at that point the Christians of the area accepted the idea of multiple services in an area at different locations and times.



Anyway you got something similar with thee Church. Before the days of modern communications like telephones, email, TV and so on. It would really be difficult to eventually be impossible to have a united church, when you have people spread out over thousands of miles: from Africa and Asia Minor, into Europe, into the rest of Asia. Besides dealing with large bodies of water, mountains and deserts etc. as far as barriers to sending messages you got bandits, not to mention nations and empires being at war with each other and considering anybody from the outside or the hostile nation or empire an enemy including people who are clergy, messengers etc.


But of course the real issue is human nature. We get many blessings with Christ's sacrifice, but the one thing we do not get is a renewed mind, we have to work for that, as well as to in general be conformed into the Image of Christ and well when that doesn't happen it causes problems like division.
John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Can't we all just submit to this?
 
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