Christ's kingdom is not of this world...

Bible Highlighter · Jul 26, 2021

Some have proposed that God owns and runs this world. While God is ultimately in control of all things in what Satan can do and not do, Christ's kingdom (God's kingdom) is not of this world because this world is ran by the enemy or Satan. This world we live in is evil and tainted by sin. This is why Satan tried to offer the kingdoms of this world to Jesus if he only bowed down and worshiped him. For the devil could not offer that which was not his, and Jesus Himself said that His kingdom was not of this world. For Jesus said if His kingdom was of this world, His servants would fight.

For we are told to love not the world, and neither the things in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him (See: 1 John 2).

The enemy currently owns this world because he blinds the minds of them who believe not the truth of God's Word.

“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (2 Corinthians 4:4).

This is the reason why the following verse is also true.

“For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.” (Hebrews 13:14).

trophy33 · Jul 26, 2021

The kingdom of God has come. The only evil is in the hearts of people.

As the kingdom of God spreads, democracy, good morals, personal freedoms, longevity, prosperity, truth, justice and peace will dominate the planet and beyond.

We must do our job and stand for that.

Mr. M · Jul 26, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
“For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.” (Hebrews 13:14).

We agree that Satan is the prince of this world, and the processes under which it operates,
of which a major one the Lord referred to as "mammon", as in "money makes the world go."
We must also distinguish this from the earth, and the creator's proprietary concern for the role
it plays in providing for all. We should be careful how we use the things of this world, because
of the constant influence of mammon, and also because the Lord will avenge Himself against
all those who have selfishly destroyed the earth. I read this in Ezekiel this morning:
34:
17 And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I shall judge between sheep
and sheep, between rams and goats.
18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your
feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the
residue with your feet?
19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you
have fouled with your feet.
Prosperity minded Christians need pay particular attention to the impact of their lives
on the earth's ability to provide for all.
Revelation 11:
17 saying: We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 26, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
We agree that Satan is the prince of this world, and the processes under which it operates,
of which a major one the Lord referred to as "mammon", as in "money makes the world go."
We must also distinguish this from the earth, and the creator's proprietary concern for the role
it plays in providing for all. We should be careful how we use the things of this world, because
of the constant influence of mammon, and also because the Lord will avenge Himself against
all those who have selfishly destroyed the earth. I read this in Ezekiel this morning:
34:
17 And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I shall judge between sheep
and sheep, between rams and goats.
18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your
feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the
residue with your feet?
19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you
have fouled with your feet.
Prosperity minded Christians need pay particular attention to the impact of their lives
on the earth's ability to provide for all.
Revelation 11:
17 saying: We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.

Yes, when I refer to the world, I am referring to the kingdoms of this world and not the literal Earth itself that is made up rock, rivers, oceans, air, trees, etc.; God's natural creation is His handiwork and it is distinct from the world system of men. Granted, I believe that God's creation has been tainted to some degree by sin (Man does not live hundreds of years anymore, and certain animals now eat meat, and thorns and thistles are now a problem for man), but surely we can give glory to God for His creation that He has made. His works are wonderous and beautiful. The complexity of life is only by the hand of an amazing Creator and Savior indeed.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 26, 2021

myst33 said:
The kingdom of God has come. The only evil is in the hearts of people.

As the kingdom of God spreads, democracy, good morals, personal freedoms, longevity, prosperity, truth, justice and peace will dominate the planet and beyond.

We must do our job and stand for that.

I don't believe there is any democracy on this planet that stands wholly for the things of the Lord Jesus Christ. All nations to some degree are under the sway of the evil one (Despite the leader's claims that they may be for God or the Lord). Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.

trophy33 · Jul 26, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.

Yes, its spiritual. He is not bodily ruling from some palace. But in hearts.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 26, 2021

myst33 said:
Yes, its spiritual. He is not bodily ruling from some palace. But in hearts.

It's both actually. Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father (Romans 8:34), and He lives and rules in the hearts of believers (Ephesians 3:17). But these believers are not seeking to make their own democracy or government here upon this Earth. That would be the false manifest sons of God theology.

https://www.theopedia.com/manifest-sons-of-god

Manifest Sons of God - religious cults, sects, and doctrines

When Jesus returns down from out of the sky (with His heavenly saints following), that is when Christ will destroy the nations of this world, and set up His earthly kingdom.

com7fy8 · Jul 26, 2021

One thing > Jesus says Satan is a liar > John 8:44. So, if Satan claims he owns something that he can give to Jesus, this is not necessarily true.

And in case he has robbed control of something, this does not mean he owns what he has stolen, right?

In any case, yes Jesus Christ's kingdom is not of this world.

Clare73 · Jul 26, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
It's both actually. Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father (Romans 8:34), and He lives and rules in the hearts of believers (Ephesians 3:17). But these believers are not seeking to make their own democracy or government here upon this Earth. That would be the false manifest sons of God theology.
When Jesus returns down from out of the sky (with His heavenly saints following), that is when Christ will destroy the nations of this world, and set up His earthly kingdom.

That will be in the new heavens and new earth (Luke 21:25-28), the home of righteousness
(2 Peter 3:13) where there is no death (Revelation 21:1-4), because it is eternity.

Davy · Jul 26, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Some have proposed that God owns and runs this world. While God is ultimately in control of all things in what Satan can do and not do, Christ's kingdom (God's kingdom) is not of this world because this world is ran by the enemy or Satan. This world we live in is evil and tainted by sin. This is why Satan tried to offer the kingdoms of this world to Jesus if he only bowed down and worshiped him. For the devil could not offer that which was not his, and Jesus Himself said that His kingdom was not of this world. For Jesus said if His kingdom was of this world, His servants would fight.

For we are told to love not the world, and neither the things in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him (See: 1 John 2).

The enemy currently owns this world because he blinds the minds of them who believe not the truth of God's Word.

“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (2 Corinthians 4:4).

This is the reason why the following verse is also true.

“For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.” (Hebrews 13:14).

That is so... true.

And not understanding it is one of the reasons so many brethren have thought the things of this world are a natural manifestation of Christ's Kingdom!

Bible Highlighter · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
That will be in the new heavens and new earth (Luke 21:25-28), the home of righteousness
(2 Peter 3:13) where there is no death (Revelation 21:1-4), because it is eternity.

No. Jesus will return here on our Earth and destroy the nations that come up against Him. Then the Millennium will begin after that. After the Millennium is the Judgment and then the New Heavens, and New Earth. Yes, there is a battle at the end of the Millennium, but that is not Christ's 2nd coming.

Davy · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
That will be in the new heavens and new earth (Luke 21:25-28), the home of righteousness
(2 Peter 3:13) where there is no death (Revelation 21:1-4), because it is eternity.

The Luke 21:25-28 Scripture is NOT the start of the new heavens and a new earth.

There WILL be a "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His faithful Church, over the unsaved nations, with "a rod of iron", as written (Revelation 2; 19; 20; Psalms 2; Zechariah 14).

trophy33 · Jul 26, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
But these believers are not seeking to make their own democracy or government here upon this Earth. That would be the false manifest sons of God theology.

Its not just something we should seek, its something we have a duty to work on. Its love towards our neighbours, our families and ourselves.

The second highest command is to take care about people in this world. Its a command, a duty, to change this world to be better.

Not sure what you mean by "their own democracy or government". I am talking about supporting democracy, personal freedoms, truth, justice, health, longevity, peaceful life etc. Everything that is tested to be good for people.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 26, 2021

myst33 said:
Its not just something we should seek, its something we have a duty to work on. Its love towards our neighbours, our families and ourselves.

You took my words out of context. I was referring to how we should not seek to make a democracy, which is a government made by the people.

Source:
Democracy | Definition of Democracy by Webster's Online Dictionary

You said:
The second highest command is to take care about people in this world. Its a command, a duty, to change this world to be better.

You are barking up the wrong tree. Nowhere did I suggest that we should not obey the second greatest commandment. I am actually one of the few Christians on this planet who believes we must obey God's commands as a part of inheriting eternal life (After we are saved by God's grace).

You said:
Not sure what you mean by "their own democracy or government". I am talking about supporting democracy, personal freedoms, truth, justice, health, longevity, peaceful life etc. Everything that is tested to be good for people.

As shown in the definition above, a democracy IS a government elected by the people. Governments of this world are not of the kingdom of God no matter how many times they may lift up the Bible or claim they believe in God or Jesus Christ. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

trophy33 · Jul 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
You took my words out of context. I was referring to how we should not seek to make a democracy, which is a government made by the people.

Source:
Democracy | Definition of Democracy by Webster's Online Dictionary

You are barking up the wrong tree. Nowhere did I suggest that we should not obey the second greatest commandment. I am actually one of the few Christians on this planet who believes we must obey God's commands as a part of inheriting eternal life (After we are saved by God's grace).

As shown in the definition above, a democracy IS a government elected by the people. Governments of this world are not of the kingdom of God no matter how many times they may lift up the Bible or claim they believe in God or Jesus Christ. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

Democracy is the best system we have, so we should support is as much as possible.

Compare the standard of living between democratic countries and the other ones.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 27, 2021

myst33 said:
Democracy is the best system we have, so we should support is as much as possible.

We should render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars, but we should render unto God the things that are God's. Meaning, we should only do the bare minimum in being a citizen (if it does not conflict with God's law), but that does not mean we should support our government in everything it says, and does. Show me a government you think is good, and I guarantee you they do things that go against what Christ teaches. The governments of this world are under the sway of the evil one.

trophy33 · Jul 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
We should render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars, but we should render unto God the things that are God's. Meaning, we should only do the bare minimum in being a citizen (if it does not conflict with God's law), but that does not mean we should support our government in everything it says, and does. Show me a government you think is good, and I guarantee you they do things that go against what Christ teaches. The governments of this world are under the sway of the evil one.

The thing you are frequently doing is called "a straw man fallacy".

"A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making."

I said - we should support democracy, personal freedoms, justice etc.

And you said something about supporting your specific government in everything it says and does? Really?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 27, 2021

myst33 said:
The thing you are frequently doing is called "a straw man fallacy".

"A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making."

I said - we should support democracy, personal freedoms, justice etc.

And you said something about supporting your specific government in everything it says and does? Really?

You said, I quote: “Democracy is the best system we have, so we should support is as much as possible.” ~ Myst33

To support something would be like say you support your child in his/her future and you are intimately involved in your child's life and wanting him/her to succeed in life. This means you will do whatever is possible to help them. This to me like it appears you are saying the same thing for your government. Before, you did not appear to know that democracy was a government. For when I started to talk about the government, you seemed confused as to why I was talking about it (until I provided the definition). So it appears you are not understanding the words that you are using or you simply are retracting what you previously stated.

Also, how does one support personal freedoms? What do you do exactly by that statement? While it is nice that we are in countries that give us freedom to worship how we please, on the flipside, God does not want people to freely sin and or worship false gods and or deny Him. If the Lord was on the Earth today, there would not be any freedom to not worship and or to do as one pleases. So when we say that we are in support of personal freedoms, that cannot be good because most people's version of freedom involves sin of some kind. So I am not in support of the freedom that this world (or governments) has to offer. Sure, I am grateful that I do have freedom to worship, but if the Lord was back tomorrow, everyone's freedom except those who follow the Lord would be destroyed. Nobody would have any freedom to do as they pleased anymore for the Lord desires us to do His will and not their own will.

Clare73 · Jul 27, 2021

Davy said:
The Luke 21:25-28 Scripture is NOT the start of the new heavens and a new earth.

There WILL be a "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His faithful Church, over the unsaved nations, with "a rod of iron", as written (Revelation 2; 19; 20; Psalms 2; Zechariah 14).

Not according to he authoritative NT teaching of Peter in Acts 3:21 where Jesus "must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything," which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness he tells us about in 2 Peter 3:10-13; and which John tells us about in Revelation 21:1-4, where there is no death because it is eternity; and which Isaiah 65:17ff, 66:22 tells us about (cf Matthew 19:28; Romans 8:20-23; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:4; 2 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 John 3:2).

And not according to authoritative NT teaching in Hebrews 9:26-28 of the same thing, that there will be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming in judgment, for Christ appears but twice, once to atone and once to judge, and not in between. Just as man dies once and then faces judgment, so Christ appears once to die and once to judge, at which time "he will bring salvation," the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection (Romans 8:22-23)

So authoritative NT teaching that there will be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things (2 Peter 3:13) at the Judgment (Hebrews 9:26-28) at the end of time (Revelation 21:1-4) is not in agreement with your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (Numbers 12:8).

Authoritative NT teaching governs.

Davy · Jul 29, 2021

Clare73 said:
Not according to he authoritative NT teaching of Peter in Acts 3:21 where Jesus "must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything," which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness he tells us about in 2 Peter 3:10-13; and which John tells us about in Revelation 21:1-4, where there is no death because it is eternity; and which Isaiah 65:17ff, 66:22 tells us about (cf Matthew 19:28; Romans 8:20-23; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:4; 2 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 John 3:2).

And not according to authoritative NT teaching in Hebrews 9:26-28 of the same thing, that there will be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming in judgment, for Christ appears but twice, once to atone and once to judge, and not in between. Just as man dies once and then faces judgment, so Christ appears once to die and once to judge, at which time "he will bring salvation," the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection (Romans 8:22-23)

So authoritative NT teaching that there will be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things (2 Peter 3:13) at the Judgment (Hebrews 9:26-28) at the end of time (Revelation 21:1-4) is not in agreement with your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (Numbers 12:8).

Authoritative NT teaching governs.

Nah, what you're pushing is the doctrine of men called Amillennialism. That was a doctrine that started in the 2nd century A.D., about the same time as the false doctrine of Gnosticism. God's Holy Writ proclaims Christ's 2nd coming prior to His "thousand years" reign. And that He MUST reign until all enemies are made His footstool (1 Corinthians 15:23-28). And the evidence of that future reign over the unsaved is in those Scriptures I quoted in my last post which you FAILED to address! So don't expect any further communication on this.

Christ's kingdom is not of this world...

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Similar threads