YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT CATHOLICISM

Swag365

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You said............
" Choosing to believe what the Church teaches and living one's life accordingly leads to salvation......".

Really?????

Do you not see the problem with what you just said?

Salvation has NOTHING to do with believing what the Church says!
The Church plays NO PART in the salvation of man. That is something that the church has told you and evidently you do not read what God said.

God said in Titus 3:5..........
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Ephesians 2:8-9......
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Salvation happens when a man confesses that Jesus Christ is the Lord, that He died and was raised from the dead 3 days later.

Then and only then does the church play a role and that role is in teaching that man who accepted Christ WHY he did it and grow him in faith and knowledge.
By the way I think your basic view concerning the role of the Church is wrong. Obviously, Jesus sent the disciples out to preach the gospel for a reason:

11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?c And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.​

The Church preaches the gospel. Then people hear the gospel and believe it. It's not like a Bible just drops out of the sky, lands on an unbeliever's desk, and then he comes to an epiphany and chooses to believe it.

The Church (not only the Catholic Church) has had a crucial role down throughout history in preaching the gospel and preserving and transmitting Sacred Scripture.

You seem to have forgotten that our Lord Jesus created the Church, that He is the head of the Church, and that the Holy Spirit acts through the Church.
 
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Major1

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Yeah I thought that somebody was gonna jump in and say something like that, without thinking first. The Catholic Church teaches that one needs to have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and we both agree about that. So we both agree that "choosing to believe what the Church teaches" leads to salvation at least insofar as the Church teaches the necessity of faith in our Lord. Have a nice day.

I thought first and then realized that what you said was an error.

It may very well be what the RCC has taught you but it is not Bible truth. A church can teach all kinds of things and if we believe t=them then we can find our selves on Christian web sites arguing over whether or not God said what He said.

A Church can teach that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Would you believe it??? The RCC did just that for 1000 years.

A church can teach that the Earth is flat. Would you believe that? The RCC did just that.

A Church can teach that the Bible says that we must worship or Saturday. The 7th Days do that and it is NOT in the Bible at all.

What is truth then????????

John 17:17............
Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

THAT and on
By the way I think your basic view concerning the role of the Church is wrong. Obviously, Jesus sent the disciples out to preach the gospel for a reason:

11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?c And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.​

The Church preaches the gospel. Then people hear the gospel and believe it. It's not like a Bible just drops out of the sky, lands on an unbeliever's desk, and then he comes to an epiphany and chooses to believe it.

The Church (not only the Catholic Church) has had a crucial role down throughout history in preaching the gospel and preserving and transmitting Sacred Scripture.

You seem to have forgotten that our Lord Jesus created the Church, that He is the head of the Church, and that the Holy Spirit acts through the Church.

Of course when we actually READ the Scriptures you posted we can see clearly that the CHURCH PLAYS NO ROLE IN SALVATION.

MEN preached the gospel. The Apostles preached Jesus and Him crucified and risen from the dead. They did that because there was NO BIBLE and the Apostles spoke for God just exactly as did Jesus.

No sir.....I am old but I did not forget!

It was then that those who heard the gospel and accepted Christ formed the church at Pentecost and then the Holy Spirit descended and filled the believers. THAT was the start of the church. Saved men started the church....the Church did not start saved men my friend.
 
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Major1

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Ok I'll try again: Why is a friend of a friend who is becoming a nun being " motivated" by her priest with the idea that her sacrifices can get her relative out of purgatory? This seems cruel and repulsive to me.

It is.

Purgatory is not found anywhere in the Bible.
There is not even a "suggestion" of Purgatory in the Bible.

It is actually a method of extortion.
 
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Swag365

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I thought first and then realized that what you said was an error.

It may very well be what the RCC has taught you but it is not Bible truth. A church can teach all kinds of things and if we believe t=them then we can find our selves on Christian web sites arguing over whether or not God said what He said.

A Church can teach that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Would you believe it??? The RCC did just that for 1000 years.

A church can teach that the Earth is flat. Would you believe that? The RCC did just that.

A Church can teach that the Bible says that we must worship or Saturday. The 7th Days do that and it is NOT in the Bible at all.

What is truth then????????

John 17:17............
Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

THAT and on


Of course when we actually READ the Scriptures you posted we can see clearly that the CHURCH PLAYS NO ROLE IN SALVATION.

MEN preached the gospel. The Apostles preached Jesus and Him crucified and risen from the dead. They did that because there was NO BIBLE and the Apostles spoke for God just exactly as did Jesus.

No sir.....I am old but I did not forget!

It was then that those who heard the gospel and accepted Christ formed the church at Pentecost and then the Holy Spirit descended and filled the believers. THAT was the start of the church. Saved men started the church....the Church did not start saved men my friend.
Have a blessed day.
 
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Placemat

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But you don't go to any church with any type of bishop, deacon, at all, no?

No.


Aren't you one of these "me and my Bible" folks who has "church service" on your sofa?

No.

If not, what denomination are you in?
I am not in any denomination, however I am of His Church, the Body of Christ made up of all true and faithful believers.

What church are you attending, who is your bishop and who is your deacon?

At the present moment, none, so I am in His hands, the best Overseer ever.

Sure, one might make the argument that there are non-Catholic churches that have a general structure that is similar to what is described in the Bible (perhaps the Anglicans, for example) but that is still nothing like these what these "me and my Bible" Christians envision, which is essentially no church structure at all.

Can’t speak for those “me and my Bible” Christians that have “church service” on their sofas or what they envision, or what type of church structure they may have, but you seem to know all about them and have decided they fall short and you’re entitled to your opinion.
 
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Swag365

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Ok I'll try again: Why is a friend of a friend who is becoming a nun being " motivated" by her priest with the idea that her sacrifices can get her relative out of purgatory? This seems cruel and repulsive to me.
That's a bit too personal I think. Why don't you go speak to the nun and/or the priest about that, if you have concerns? I don't see how anybody here is supposed to earnestly respond to various rumors that you heard "from a friend of a friend of a friend" or what have you.
 
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Swag365

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No.




No.


I am not in any denomination, however I am of His Church, the Body of Christ made up of all true and faithful believers.



At the present moment, none, so I am in His hands, the best Overseer ever.



Can’t speak for those “me and my Bible” Christians that have “church service” on their sofas or what they envision, or what type of church structure they may have, but you seem to know all about them and have decided they fall short and you’re entitled to your opinion.
Sure, I think we can say that all believers in our Lord are part of the Church, broadly defined. In my view non-Catholics are part of the Church in a broad sense.

In your view would the Church include Catholics who disagree with you on various things such as purgatory or what not?

Have a blessed day.
 
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Placemat

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Well if we define it simply we need only read John 3:16. But most non-Catholics seem to have something else in mind when they say "His gospel message" and the particular definition of "His gospel message" varies widely from person-to-person.

That’s never been my experience with non-Catholic Christians. The very core of our beliefs rest in His virgin birth, His divinity/humanity, His place in the Godhead/Trinity as the Son, His sacrificial death/shedding of His blood for the forgiveness of our sins, His resurrection, ascension and that He will return.

What is your definition?

See above as presented throughout all of the Gospels (Mat/Mk/Luke/John) and as attested to by the Apostles through their letters in the New Testament.

I do like what we find in Colossians:

Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. 24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. 29 To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.

Colossians 2

6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


Sure. The fundamental truths that a person needs to know to be saved can be discerned from the Bible, if that is what you mean.
At the same time, if it is so easy as picking up the Bible and discerning the truth, one wonders why there is so-much variation in belief among Christians. Why do some protestants pick up the Bible and determine that Baptism is not-necessary, and other protestants pick up the Bible and determine that Baptism is necessary, if they are all moved by the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit prompting different Christians to believe different things, or is it that the Holy Spirit only prompts you, and does not prompt the other Christians who disagree with you?

Good question. We’re weak humans, fallible, but as Christians can be assured that if we are sincere in our desire to know Him and follow Him, He will make sure we will be able to discern His Truth. As non-Catholic Christians, the church doesn’t ‘bind’ them to ‘it’ (the church itself), an earthly organization with the threat of the loss of their salvation if they do not adhere to all of its teachings as the Catholic church does.

Your mention on baptism specifically, made me think of the Catholic church allowing the teaching of a hypothetical theory, for centuries, as if it were His Truth, that dealt with the very salvation of souls, that banished unbaptised infants from the beatific vision of God for eternity (depending on what ‘stage’ of development this ‘theory’ was in – they either suffered all the pains of Hell – suffered just a little bit – were in an kind of eternal bliss)- was it teaching HIS TRUTH – a ‘revealed truth’ or were they floundering around in an attempt to somehow explain its already ‘defined’ doctrine of baptism? How could the Holy Spirit be leading these theologians /magisterium/popes when for centuries they couldn’t ‘interpret’ scripture to come up with a better solution.
They no longer ‘teach’ this ‘theory’…..instead, finally now, after centuries have discovered a new idea….although it’s not really affirmed absolutely….just put out there for HIS SHEEP to consider ….this new idea is to have HOPE in a merciful, loving God….maybe....but get those babies baptised (just in case)…because they don’t really know and never did.

This is also a great example of ‘adding’ to what is not there in scripture and what happens when you do so.

Well its not like I called your mother a harlot.
???
I indicated that your decision making appears to make you your own personal equivalent of the Catholic pope, and that still appears to be the case. The only religious authority higher than yourself is Sacred Scripture and God himself, correct? If so, then that makes you the rough equivalent of the pope. Do you have a bishop, a pastor, a deacon, who has religious authority over you? If so, who?

Oh no, unlike the Catholic church and its developed teachings regarding itself or the pope, I’ve never claimed for myself to have any sole authority at interpreting scripture, or being infallible when speaking ex-cathedra as I find no need to ‘bind’ anyone to me - and yes, you are correct, the only religious authority higher than myself at this particular time, is scripture and God Himself as that’s just the way it is at this present moment in life for me, but as He knows my circumstance and because my faith and trust has always been in HIM and not a religious organisation, and as He has never failed me in the past, I feel assured and at peace when I state - I can’t think of any other writings or any other Being that I’d rather have as my ‘religious authority’ than the scriptures and God Himself.
 
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Swag365

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Purgatory is not found anywhere in the Bible.
There is not even a "suggestion" of Purgatory in the Bible.
Well, there is certainly more support in Sacred Scripture for purgatory than there is for many major Protestant doctrines, such as Sola-Scriptura, Sola-Fide, and penal-substitution, which clearly contradict god's Word.
 
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Albion

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Ok I'll try again: Why is a friend of a friend who is becoming a nun being " motivated" by her priest with the idea that her sacrifices can get her relative out of purgatory? This seems cruel and repulsive to me.
That is taught in Catholic circles, that's right.

In addition to all the gimmicks and 'ins and outs' about how Purgatory supposedly "works," there is also the idea that the living can do meritorious deeds and then assign them to the "poor souls" in Purgatory in order to "shorten their time" in suffering. That includes giving to particular souls designated by the giver.

If your friend were not to become a nun, she'd still have the opportunity to do essentially the same thing, according to this scenario. All of this, we must remember, refers to the traditional belief in Purgatory. In today's church, Purgatory is fast being relegated to a quickie re-orientation before entering heaven, so your friend had better be absolutely certain about everything if helping a friend in Purgatory is a significant part of her interest in becoming a nun.
 
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Placemat

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Well I don't disagree with that per se, but ultimately it will always come back to your own personal interpretation of what the Bible means. Two different people can read the same exact Bible. Person A determines that Church A's teachings are consistent with the Bible. Person B determines that Church's A's teachings are inconsistent with the Bible. So ultimately it just comes down to your own personal interpretation of what the Bible means, rather than the Bible itself, if many cases.

It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree and thanks for your opinion also.

I kind of understand that coming from your perspective as a Catholic there would be a bit of uncertainty or confusion about testing your particular church’s teachings/practices against scripture - as you’re not allowed to do so. You can read it, and ‘interpret’ it, but with the caveat that it has to match up with what the Catholic church has already interpreted it to mean. Having said that, if what you state is true - that can extend past individual interpretation and be applied to any church’s claims, practices and developed teachings – as scripture instructs, we are to ‘test’ all things against what is written in scripture – and if any church does not allow that to happen, that in itself should be considered a 'red flag.'

And that is one reason why our Lord Jesus founded a Church, of which the gates of hell shall not prevail, and which is the pillar and foundation of the truth. When A and B have a disagreement, they can go to the Church, founded by Jesus, and of which He is the head, and through which the Holy Spirit operates, to guide A and B into the truth.

In another thread, that topic about being able to go to the Catholic church if there is a disagreement came up and I asked the question – what happens when the Catholic church doesn’t do anything at all, in fact when it turns it back on the ones coming with an issue between two Catholics, and it lies and enables the perpetrator of evil to continue as has been happening with sexual child abuse victims? Is it still to be considered the pillar and foundation of truth through which the Holy Spirit operates as it ‘self’ proclaims itself to be? When it allowed a hypothetical theory (Limbo of Infants) to be taught for centuries, supposedly dealing with the very salvation of souls , as if it were His Truth, only to stop teaching it admitting that they don’t really know – is it still to be considered the pillar and foundation of truth….because they simply CLAIM to be, or as another poster stated – “Because no one else claimed it!” ???

This is why my initial post and in ones thereafter #141 example -

Throughout the thread, it is evident that both Catholic Christians and non-Catholic Christians consider men to be weak and untrustworthy, including pope's and that is why I asked, who taught you that His promise was about the Catholic church specifically, sincerely, how do you determine that this teaching is true?

I asked how do you know that the Catholic church is the specific church mentioned by Jesus....as just 'claiming' it to be so does not make it true.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Well, there is certainly more support in Sacred Scripture for purgatory than there is for many major Protestant doctrines, such as Sola-Scriptura, Sola-Fide, and penal-substitution, which clearly contradict god's Word.

All three of those would make for great threads here IMO. Please feel free to start these threads for us lest we derail this thread on those doctrines. Thank you.
 
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renniks

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That's a bit too personal I think. Why don't you go speak to the nun and/or the priest about that, if you have concerns? I don't see how anybody here is supposed to earnestly respond to various rumors that you heard "from a friend of a friend of a friend" or what have you.
I want to know if this is normal within the Catholic church. I don't see how it's " personal."
 
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Placemat

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Sure, I think we can say that all believers in our Lord are part of the Church, broadly defined. In my view non-Catholics are part of the Church in a broad sense.
Too vague - have no idea what that even means.

In your view would the Church include Catholics who disagree with you on various things such as purgatory or what not.

Have a blessed day.


My view - when it comes to whom HE includes in HIS Church......if they are true and faithful believers in HIM first and foremost, born again as He says of the Spirit, placing HIM before any church, their leaders or their teachings - (the responsibility remains for each of us to come to know HIM so well, that we will be able to discern what is of HIM and what is of 'man'.) He'll deal with any false teachers in any church that attempts to usurp His authority by binding people to them by their man made precepts/traditions or who institutes and supports any teaching or practice that would dilute and contaminate the efficacy and sufficiency of His blood sacrifice as taught and preached by the Apostles throughout the NT. The gospel was preached and the traditions were taught and the Apostles warned to hold fast to them...to what had been taught.

That's my 'view' - my 'opinion' - stressing that I did not say that churches aren't necessary, or organised assemblies aren't necessary.....but in HIS Body....HIS Church.....we as Christians are all UNITED because of HIM, because of HIS love for us, because of HIS sacrifice, spilling HIS own blood....and not because of what 'church' we belong too. He knows His Sheep and they know His voice.
 
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Swag365

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I want to know if this is normal within the Catholic church. I don't see how it's " personal."
It's "personal" from the standpoint that I do not know what the priest said in this particular circumstance, and neither do you, apparently, since you were not there, and have only heard a rumor about this alleged event from "a friend of a friend." Maybe what the priest said was correct. Maybe what he said was incorrect. It is not something that I can discuss because the alleged event is described too vaguely for me to be able to offer an opinion on what may or may not have occurred.

On the other hand, a specific statement about indulgences in an officially promulgated Catholic document, would not be "personal."

Have a nice day.
 
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Swag365

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Too vague - have no idea what that even means.

My view - when it comes to whom HE includes in HIS Church......if they are true and faithful believers in HIM first and foremost, born again as He says of the Spirit, placing HIM before any church, their leaders or their teachings - (the responsibility remains for each of us to come to know HIM so well, that we will be able to discern what is of HIM and what is of 'man'.) He'll deal with any false teachers in any church that attempts to usurp His authority by binding people to them by their man made precepts/traditions or who institutes and supports any teaching or practice that would dilute and contaminate the efficacy and sufficiency of His blood sacrifice as taught and preached by the Apostles throughout the NT. The gospel was preached and the traditions were taught and the Apostles warned to hold fast to them...to what had been taught.

Thanks. Then practicing Catholics who follow what the Catholic Church teaches are included in God's Church. Amen to that. I'm glad you agree.

That's my 'view' - my 'opinion' - stressing that I did not say that churches aren't necessary, or organised assemblies aren't necessary.....but in HIS Body....HIS Church.....we as Christians are all UNITED because of HIM, because of HIS love for us, because of HIS sacrifice, spilling HIS own blood....and not because of what 'church' we belong too. He knows His Sheep and they know His voice.
Amen.
 
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Major1

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Well, there is certainly more support in Sacred Scripture for purgatory than there is for many major Protestant doctrines, such as Sola-Scriptura, Sola-Fide, and penal-substitution, which clearly contradict god's Word.

But this thread is NOT about Protestant doctrines. You are just throwing up a diversionary smoke screen and not responding to the point in question.

Sola Scriptura is NOT Bible doctrine. It is a "tool of understanding".
Sola-Fida is also NOT a doctrine either.

Penal - substitution is NOT a Bible doctrine?????
Penal - substitution contradicts God's Word??????????

I apologize in advance my friend, but have you actually read a Bible? Do you not realize that "penal-substitution is the basis for Christianity going all the way back to Adam and Eve?????

The word penal means “related to punishment for offenses,” and substitution means “the act of a person taking the place of another.” So, penal substitution is the act of a person taking the punishment for someone else’s offenses. In Christian theology, Jesus Christ is the Substitute, and the punishment He took (at the cross) was ours, based on our sin (1 Peter 2:24).

Who do you think brought the skins to Adam and Eve in the Garden?
Where did those skins come from?
WHY were they given to Adam and Eve.

When YOU do some Bible study and can answer those Christian 101 questions, get back to me and we can have a conversation.
 
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Major1

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Plenty of good and holy things can be misused, no? People have misused the Bible to attempt to justify slavery, have they not?

NO! That is not correct. That is something used by some to degrade the Bible.

Are you aware that TODAY, it is estimated that there are today over 27 million people in the world who are subject to slavery: forced labor, sex trade, inheritable property etc.
The Bible is not used or mentioned in any of those things.

I am not trying to disrepect you in any way my friend. It is just that your responce tells me that you do not have the correct information you need to make the comment.

What you have fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was based more on economics; it was a matter of social status and the results of wars lost.

In fact, in ancient past, People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

However, The slavery of the past few centuries was based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings.

As for the Bible, The Bible condemns race-based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27). At the same time, the Old Testament did allow for economic-based slavery and regulated it. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing,” which is what happened in Africa in the 16th to 19th centuries.

Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death:

Ex. 21:16............
“Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death”.

Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers in 1 Tim. 1:8-10.
Does the Bible condone slavery? | GotQuestions.org
 
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