Why do SDA preach

tall73 · Jul 26, 2021

MMXX said:
Yes God says to keep the sabbath holy. And then over and over again, God stipulates the sabbath is kept holy by resting from labor. Nowhere does God command us to attend church on Saturday.

Trying to understand your point on this. Do you think you are commanded to rest on the 7th day?

You seem to be indicating the command was to rest. Nor do you seem to deny that they did assemble. But just that they were not required to assemble?

For the discussion of assembly, here is another text regarding that, from an earlier time.

2Ki 4:22 Then she called to her husband and said, “Send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, that I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again.”
2Ki 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”

BobRyan · Jul 26, 2021

MMXX said:
Qdefiling
Do you have something else more substantial than
Omar C. Garcia's blog to go by?

Well... in that same post I mentioned all the OT and NT statements that debunk your suggestion so far -- like this "I highly recommend reading Today at 2:30 PM #119 "

-- texts that you are still ignoring - but at least you are reading "Omar C. Garcia's blog" so that is something.

BobRyan · Jul 26, 2021

MMXX said:
The sabbath being a day of rest isn't something that requires interpretation. It's sated quite clearly multiple times. .

As is "come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 and "solemn assembly"/"holy convocation" where once in Jerusalem - they had to gather from all over the world to attend.. and then we have all the gatherings on Sabbath that we find in the NT that you are ignoring.

We get "ignore that" posts of push-back when we see in Acts 17:11 the sola scriptura practice of the NT "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things were SO". And so also do we get that "ignore that" response for all the "gathered" on Sabbath where both Christians and non-Christians are doing it "Sabbath after Sabbath" and yet "Every Sabbath" Acts 18:4.

BobRyan · Jul 26, 2021

MMXX said:
The sabbath being a day of rest isn't something that requires interpretation. It's sated quite clearly multiple times. It being something else other than or besides a day of rest is what has to be interpreted.

Worship -- in Is 66:23 - no "re translation of REST needed".
Solemn Assembly - Lev 23:3 -- no "re translation of REST needed".

Ceallaigh · Jul 26, 2021

tall73 said:
Trying to understand your point on this. Do you think you are commanded to rest on the 7th day?

You seem to be indicating the command was to rest. Nor do you seem to deny that they did assemble. But just that they were not required to assemble?

For the discussion of assembly, here is another text regarding that, from an earlier time.

2Ki 4:22 Then she called to her husband and said, “Send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, that I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again.”
2Ki 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”

What I see in scripture multiple times regarding the sabbath day, is God commanding that it be kept holy ceasing labor and resting. And that's all I see commanded regarding the sabbath written in the Mosaic Law.

The claim by SDA is that since the Sabbath is called a holy convocation, that must mean a command to worship at the synagogue. However, it seems clear to me that the holy convocation regarding the sabbath is defined as complete rest.

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings." Leviticus 23:3

I see nothing in Mosaic Law that can be interpreted as "Christians are commanded by God to attend church on Saturday".

I think people going to the synagogue on the sabbath was something they did of their own accord, rather than something the Law commanded them to do.

Now of course if going to church on Saturday isn't a commandment of God, then the a big claim made by the SDA church falls apart. So it's something they have to insist on. Just like they have to insist on Ellen White being their prophetess who got messages from an angel. All of which they believe sets them apart from or above the rest of Christianity as God's chosen remnant.

Ceallaigh · Jul 26, 2021

BobRyan said:
Worship -- in Is 66:23 - no "re translation of REST needed".
Solemn Assembly - Lev 23:3 -- no "re translation of REST needed".

You have only a couple of main verses you think amount to a commandment from God to attend church on Saturday.

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings." Leviticus 23:3

It seems plainly obvious that complete rest is the holy convocation. Furthermore it states in all your dwellings. Not in synagogues, but in your dwellings. So claiming this is supposed to be a command to go to the synagogue and worship does not hold up as I (and apparently 99% of Christendom) see it.

Now, as to Isaiah 66:23. This is a portion of a Prophecy. Not a commandment. Not Mosaic Law. But a prophecy. Which in its entirety goes:

"For just as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So your offspring and your name will endure.
23 “And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “Then they will go forth and look
On the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm will not die
And their fire will not be quenched;
And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind." Isaiah 66:22-24

Side note: I personally don't mind the idea of attending church on Saturday. That actually accommodates my schedule better. So I have no reason to be against it for personal reasons. But I simply do not see any commandment from God to attend church on Saturday.

However, in order for you to remain a Seventh Day Advantest, you are mandated by that church to see attending church on Saturday as a commandment.

Albion · Jul 26, 2021

tall73 said:
Trying to understand your point on this. Do you think you are commanded to rest on the 7th day?

You seem to be indicating the command was to rest. Nor do you seem to deny that they did assemble. But just that they were not required to assemble?

For the discussion of assembly, here is another text regarding that, from an earlier time.

2Ki 4:22 Then she called to her husband and said, “Send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, that I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again.”
2Ki 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”

But ONCE AGAIN, what is the sense in arguing that we are all supposed to abide by every Jewish pre-Christian teaching and practice? We are not Jewish.

If every OT rule were binding on the disciples of Christ, then half of our beliefs would not be allowed, Jesus Christ would not be seen as the Messiah and certainly not as God, no Christian sacraments would be observed (not just the day of worship) and, of course also, 27 books of the Bible would be of no importance whatsoever.

tall73 · Jul 26, 2021

Albion said:
But ONCE AGAIN, what is the sense in arguing that we are all supposed to abide by every Jewish pre-Christian teaching and practice? We are not Jewish.

The argument that the Sabbath command involved rest, but not worship, is different than the argument that pre-Christian Jewish practice need not be followed.

To put it another way, if you don't think Gentile believers need to observe the fourth commandment, then whether the Sabbath involves rest or worship is no longer a pressing question for said Gentile believer.

tall73 · Jul 26, 2021

MMXX said:
What I see in scripture multiple times regarding the sabbath day, is God commanding that it be kept holy ceasing labor and resting. And that's all I see commanded regarding the sabbath written in the Mosaic Law.

The claim by SDA is that since the Sabbath is called a holy convocation, that must mean a command to worship at the synagogue. However, it seems clear to me that the holy convocation regarding the sabbath is defined as complete rest.

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings." Leviticus 23:3

I see nothing in Mosaic Law that can be interpreted as "Christians are commanded by God to attend church on Saturday".

I think people going to the synagogue on the sabbath was something they did of their own accord, rather than something the Law commanded them to do.

Now of course if going to church on Saturday isn't a commandment of God, then the a big claim made by the SDA church falls apart. So it's something they have to insist on. Just like they have to insist on Ellen White being their prophetess who got messages from an angel. All of which they believe sets them apart from or above the rest of Christianity as God's chosen remnant.

Do you think Christians are commanded to rest on the 7th day?

Major1 · Jul 26, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
Why do SDA preach more about the Sabbath rather then making Jesus the center of SDA preaching? Yes, I have visited SDA churches before. Everytime, not a word about Jesus, always centered their sermon on the Sabbath.

If you have been to Charismatic Pentecostal church you would be asking....why do they preach so much more about TONGUES than Jesus Christ!

IMO it is about validation.

We (They) need to promote and talk about what they believe more than WHO it is that they believe in.

For me......if you want to go to church on Saturday then do it.

But the Bible fact is.......there is NO Law, NO direction and NO command in the Bible to worship on the Sabbath!

The command in the in Exodus 20:8
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals".

An interesting study is to look up the word “Sabbath” in a concordance, find all the Old Testament references and then read those passages to see how this day was kept “holy.” The conclusion will be that rest from labor is what made the Sabbath sacred time, not attendance at a worship service.

Albion · Jul 26, 2021

tall73 said:
The argument that the Sabbath command involved rest, but not worship, is different than the argument that pre-Christian Jewish practice need not be followed.

I agree, but I also have seen in a number of posts here in which the two and more get run together in the arguments used by Sabbatarians. To say that the Saturday Sabbath is eternal is one thing, but when that is reinforced by any member who says that the people in the Old Testament show us how true that is because they did such and such, and so also should we... well, that's not a good argument.

To put it another way, if you don't think Gentile believers need to observe the fourth commandment, then whether the Sabbath involves rest or worship is no longer a pressing question for said Gentile believer.

No, that's not how to put it. Whether or not the "Gentile believers," i.e. Christians, need to adhere to Saturday worship or not depends on the counsel and the authority of the entire word of God--the Bible. All of it.

Obviously, certain truths from the OT remain, but the coming of the Son of God, his teachings, death, and resurrection, as well as his founding of a new church, are not to be ignored at the same time, yet that is what many of the posts in this and similar discussions do.

Adventist Heretic · Jul 26, 2021

I think what you need to look at is 2 things. 1. what were the religious requirements of worship in a religious society. was every day or once a week, once a month, once a year. 2. what does the term "rest" mean. i mean more then non-work. you can not work and still not rest. think woman with the issue of blood, not working, not resting either. so rest is more then just not working,

Ceallaigh · Jul 26, 2021

tall73 said:
Do you think Christians are commanded to rest on the 7th day?

I don't think so. There's actually a debate currently going on about that in another thread. However I decided to observe it as a day of rest. And a day of holiness. As a personal discipline.

tall73 · Jul 26, 2021

MMXX said:
I don't think so. There's actually a debate currently going on about that in another thread. However I decided to observe it as a day of rest. And a day of holiness. As a personal discipline.

Thank you, that makes things more clear.

Adventist Heretic · Jul 26, 2021

”

The conclusion will be that rest from labor is what made the Sabbath sacred time, not attendance at a worship service.

this is a bit premature, rest is never apart from God and fellowship with God. Worship and fellowship go hand and hand.

tall73 · Jul 26, 2021

Albion said:
No, that's not how to put it. Whether or not the "Gentile believers," i.e. Christians, need to adhere to Saturday worship or not depends on the counsel and the authority of the entire word of God--the Bible. All of it.

The argument was being centered around the meaning of the 4th commandment, and whether it required rest, or rest plus something else.

Christian practice should deal with the entire Scriptures. But then such would not just be a debate about the nature of the fourth commandment and its requirements.

Major1 · Jul 26, 2021

Albion said:
I agree, but I also have seen in a number of posts here in which the two and more get run together in the arguments used by Sabbatarians. To say that the Saturday Sabbath is eternal is one thing, but when that is reinforced by any member who says that the people in the Old Testament show us how true that is because they did such and such, and so also should we... well, that's not a good argument.

No, that's not how to put it. Whether or not the "Gentile believers," i.e. Christians, need to adhere to Saturday worship or not depends on the counsel and the authority of the entire word of God--the Bible. All of it.

Obviously, certain truths from the OT remain, but the coming of the Son of God, his teachings, death, and resurrection, as well as his founding of a new church, are not to be ignored at the same time, yet that is what many of the posts in this and similar discussions do.

Sabbatarians always seem to ignore the fact that the Sabbath was given to Israel and the church had no part in it at all.

In fact Nehemiah tells us that God made known the sabbath to Israel at Sinai (the time of Moses) (Nehemiah 9:13,14; Ezekiel 20:10-12). Therefore the sabbath law is not a law for all people and for all time from the creation. Rather it was a law for the nation of Israel during the period of the “Old Covenant” which began with Moses and was fulfilled and taken away at the death of Christ.

Major1 · Jul 26, 2021

tall73 said:
The argument was being centered around the meaning of the 4th commandment, and whether it required rest, or rest plus something else.

Christian practice should deal with the entire Scriptures. But then such would not just be a debate about the nature of the fourth commandment and its requirements.

If it was "Something else".......where in the Scriptures can we find that "something else"?????

Albion · Jul 26, 2021

tall73 said:
The argument was being centered around the meaning of the 4th commandment, and whether it required rest, or rest plus something else.

That was part of what's been posted, yes, but only part.

Christian practice should deal with the entire Scriptures.

I agree.

But then such would not just be a debate about the nature of the fourth commandment and its requirements.

It ought not to be, but it is. That's why I made my comment above. Some of the people arguing that Christians should continue to worship on the Sabbath have suggested that the reason for it is not just the existence of the Commandment, but in order to solidify that argument have taken the position that the New Testament doesn't matter when it comes to deciding on this issue.

Doing that simply erases any gains that the Sabbatarians might have made in the discussion and of course the Christian majority will instantly be "turned off" when that idea, being DOA, is entered into the discussion.

Major1 · Jul 26, 2021

icedragon101 said:
” this is a bit premature, rest is never apart from God and fellowship with God. Worship and fellowship go hand and hand.

Now I do not intend any disrespect to you, however what you just posted sounds a whole lot like 7th Day teaching to me.

To most of us....... worship, is the activities of the congregation when we come together on Sunday morning. We worship through singing and the teaching of Scripture.

Fellowship is when members of the body share life together. When the church group starts to feel like family, then we are nibbling at the fringes of true fellowship. Yet fellowship without worship and service makes for a clique, not a church.

Why do SDA preach

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