Why do SDA preach

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BobRyan

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Go with what the Bible text says but stop reading after the Gospel of John because all the books following shouldn't have been included in the Bible.

That's basically what I get from all the posts that address the only religious practice that is ever stressed--what time of the week should the worship service start?

I assume you are NOT talking about chronological order since John's gospel is the last book written chronologically

hmmm
1 Tim 3:16 is "after the gospel of John in its compiled sequence in the Bible" and it says "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine". Ex 20:8-11 comes to mind in that case - as also Is 56:6-8

1 Cor 7:19 says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Eph 6:1-2 says those commandments include the TEN where "honor your father and mother is the FIRST Commandment with a promise"

Heb 4 says "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" -- where "remains" refers to it remaining as it was in the days of David in Ps 95:7

Rev 14:7 quotes directly from the Sabbath commandment whereas Ex 20:7 "Do not take God's name in vain" is not quoted from even once -- after the gospel of John
 
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Ceallaigh

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Until you read actual history of it.

And until you read the Bible and admit that both "Seventh-day Baptists" and 'Messianic Jews" -- Exist.

Lev 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of "Holy Convocation" -- and was not "written by Ellen White"
Is 66:23 said that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" -- Is 66 was not written by Ellen White

The Westminster Confession of Faith - does not agree with your claim - and it was not written by Ellen White

D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments - regarding the Sabbath - does not agree with your claim -- and was not written by Ellen White

C.H. Spurgeon does not agree with your claim - and not a student of Ellen White

I admit it was a flippant comment. However, the Messianic movement started a century later. As for "Seventh-day Baptists" I doubt many including myself has heard of them. Are there any on this forum? I consider The Westminster Confession of Faith calling the Lord's Day the Sabbath an error.
Until you read actual history of it.

And until you read the Bible and admit that both "Seventh-day Baptists" and 'Messianic Jews" -- Exist.

Lev 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of "Holy Convocation" -- and was not "written by Ellen White"
Is 66:23 said that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" -- Is 66 was not written by Ellen White

The Westminster Confession of Faith - does not agree with your claim - and it was not written by Ellen White

D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments - regarding the Sabbath - does not agree with your claim -- and was not written by Ellen White

C.H. Spurgeon does not agree with your claim - and not a student of Ellen White

Sorry Brother, it was a sarcastic remark. However, I'm pretty sure Ellen White is the first person who said Constantine's decree of Sunday being a day of rest - which apparently she misinterpreted as a law saying you have to worship on Sunday - is the Mark of the Best.

And then went on to say sabbath keeping is a requirement of salvation, which I seriously doubt the Westminster Confession of Faith, D.L. Moody and Charles Spurgeon said.

"The prophet of the SDAs made statements like "But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

As for Leviticus 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of "Holy Convocation" -- and was not "written by Ellen White" - The "Holy Convocation" regarding the Sabbath is specified as a day of rest rather than calling it a day of worship as seen in Leviticus 23:3, Leviticus 23:7-8, Leviticus 23:21, Leviticus 23:35, Numbers 28:18, Numbers 28:25. Aside from that, the "Holy Convocation" refers to a festival and or feast.

As for "Isaiah 66:23 said that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" -- Is 66 was not written by Ellen White."

“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


Isaiah does not appear to be calling the sabbath a day of worship anymore than calling a new moon a day of worship. New moons take place on specific days; August 8, September 6 etc.

Leviticus 23:2-3 and Isaiah 66:23 are the only verses I've ever seen presented as supposedly declaring the sabbath day as a day of worship - specifically going to church to worship - and that appears to be eisegesis (interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases).
 
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NBB

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1. No text says that.
2. Is 56:6-8 specifically singles out gentiles for keeping the 7th day Sabbath
3. Is 66:23 says for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
4. Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" which speaks to the "making of BOTH" in Genes 1:2-2:3 Creation week.
5. Nothing in Rom 14 says "one man observes no day and that is fine"

Yes its says that if you are convinced that no day is sacred and all days are alike you do no wrong, unless you can't read, or you follow EW too much.
 
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Ceallaigh

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1. No text says that.
2. Is 56:6-8 specifically singles out gentiles for keeping the 7th day Sabbath
3. Is 66:23 says for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
4. Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" which speaks to the "making of BOTH" in Genes 1:2-2:3 Creation week.
5. Nothing in Rom 14 says "one man observes no day and that is fine"

Isaiah 56:6-8 is about proselyte Gentiles who have converted to Judaism.

“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23

I have a feeling that interpretation of Mark 2:27 is exclusive to SDA et al.

"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5
 
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BobRyan

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Isaiah 56:6-8 is about proselyte Gentiles who have converted to Judaism.

Judaism is "a religion" - the "god fearers" in Acts 13 are no listed as "brethren" but rather fellow believers in the same religion as Jews --- who were not circumcised. Timothy was another example of a Gentile believer that Paul then has circumcised in Acts 16.

“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23

I have a feeling that interpretation of Mark 2:27 is exclusive to SDA et al.

Your "feeling" is mistaken as "The Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 shows.
as "The Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 shows.
as D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN commandments (online) shows in the 4th commandment
as Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations agree.

"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5

"alike" is in italics because it is "inserted"

"one man observes one day above another while another man observes every day ... the one who observes the day observes it unto the Lord" - a reference to the Bible-approved list of annual holy days in Lev 23.
 
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BobRyan

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or you follow EW too much.

Lev 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of "Holy Convocation" -- and was not "written by Ellen White"
Is 66:23 said that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" -- Is 66 was not written by Ellen White

The Westminster Confession of Faith - does not agree with your claim - and it was not written by Ellen White

The Baptist Confession of Faith - does not agree with your claim - and it was not written by Ellen White

D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments - regarding the Sabbath - does not agree with your claim -- and was not written by Ellen White

C.H. Spurgeon does not agree with your claim - and not a student of Ellen White

Objective facts matter
 
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NBB

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"one man observes one day above another while another man observes every day ... the one who observes the day observes it unto the Lord" - a reference to the Bible-approved list of annual holy days in Lev 23.[/QUOTE]

That a weird translation most bibles don't have.

Here the i guess 'most' 'popular' english bible says (king james):

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

NVI says 'considers' instead of regard, but never observe.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
 
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BobRyan

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I admit it was a flippant comment. However, the Messianic movement started a century later.

Not as students of Ellen White.

As for "Seventh-day Baptists" I doubt many including myself has heard of them. Are there any on this forum?

I have seen some on CF - and the fact that you are not informed about them does not delete their existence or the fact that they existed before the first day Adventists and were instrumental in getting the Bible studies together that resulted in Bible Sabbath observance.

I consider The Westminster Confession of Faith calling the Lord's Day the Sabbath an error.

You are free to differ with them but not to blame their statements that the Bible Sabbath as the 7th day in the TEN Commandments was given to mankind in Eden and was only edited to change/edit to week-day-1 after the cross. Your suggestion appears to be that it was Ellen White telling everyone that the Bible Sabbath as given to mankind was the 7th day.

I'm pretty sure Ellen White is the first person who said Constantine's decree of Sunday being a day of rest - which apparently she misinterpreted as a law saying you have to worship on Sunday - is the Mark of the Best.

Ellen White states specifically that there has been no "Mark of the Beast" in all of history and there is none today as well. She states it happens only in the future at a time when very strict anti-religious-liberty laws are predicted to be enacted and a number of other events transpire resulting in what Rev 13 predicts as "The mark of the Beast"

non-SDAs may "predict" that no such strict laws against religious liberty will ever be passed in America - and if "Their predictions" that nothing will happen are correct then fine... nothing will happen. It becomes then a difference is "prediction" of future events.

Details are very important for the sake of accuracy
 
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BobRyan

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Quotes-BobRyan
As for Leviticus 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of "Holy Convocation" -- and was not "written by Ellen White" - The "Holy Convocation" regarding the Sabbath is specified as a day of rest rather than calling it a day of worship as seen in Leviticus 23:3, Leviticus 23:7-8, Leviticus 23:21, Leviticus 23:35, Numbers 28:18, Numbers 28:25. Aside from that, the "Holy Convocation" refers to a festival and or feast.

As for "Isaiah 66:23 said that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" -- Is 66 was not written by Ellen White."

“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.
End-Quote


Isaiah does not appear to be calling the sabbath a day of worship anymore than calling a new moon a day of worship

When you say "Isaiah does not appear to be calling the sabbath a day of worship anymore than calling a new moon a day of worship"

We find the "actual text" saying Is 66: "23 ...from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord." -- and Isaiah's readers knew that Sabbath is a day of worship as Lev 23:2-3 had already stated.

Exegesis "is a thing" as it turns out so inserting one's own ideas into the text does not work because clearly the language Isaiah is using for his readers is the language of a day of worship continuing for all eternity after the cross. Though it may not fit the preference of some today - it cannot be denied that the context and definition for the term was well known to Isaiah and his readers.

This is irrefutable.
 
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BobRyan

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Leviticus 23:2-3 and Isaiah 66:23 are the only verses I've ever seen presented as supposedly declaring the sabbath day as a day of worship - specifically going to church to worship - and that appears to be eisegesis

The Lev 23:3 text says "a day of holy convocation" and claiming that this statement does not exist is much more "eisegesis" than you may have at first supposed.

And we see this holy convocation attended by Paul "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4
 
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BobRyan

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quotes-BobRyan
"one man observes one day above another while another man observes every day ... the one who observes the day observes it unto the Lord" - a reference to the Bible-approved list of annual holy days in Lev 23.
EndQuote

That is a weird translation

All the ones have it that put "alike" in italics - thereby informing the reader it was inserted by the translators and is not in actual manuscript they are translating from.


5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; -- KJV

Clearly in the case that one esteems one above another one is the not esteeming the others but just the one. Which means he is not esteeming those other approved Lev 23 holy days -- just the one. which is why we also see ; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.


No wonder we still have the fact that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

The Sabbath was "made FOR mankind" Mark 2:27

As D.L. Moody admits
As the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 admits
As the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 admits
 
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Ceallaigh

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When you say "Isaiah does not appear to be calling the sabbath a day of worship anymore than calling a new moon a day of worship"

We find the "actual text" saying Is 66: "23 ...from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord." -- and Isaiah's readers knew that Sabbath is a day of worship as Lev 23:2-3 had already stated.

Exegesis "is a thing" as it turns out so inserting one's own ideas into the text does not work because clearly the language Isaiah is using for his readers is the language of a day of worship continuing for all eternity after the cross. Though it may not fit the preference of some today - it cannot be denied that the context and definition for the term was well known to Isaiah and his readers.

Leviticus 23:3 coupled with Leviticus 23:7-8, Leviticus 23:21, Leviticus 23:35, Numbers 28:18, Numbers 28:25 make it clear the "holy convocation" is expressed in ceasing from labor resting. The sabbath is consistently called a day of rest. Changing that to a day of worship appears to be eisegesis rather than exegesis.

This is irrefutable.

Quite the contrary.
 
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Ceallaigh

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The Lev 23:3 text says "a day of holy convocation" and claiming that this statement does not exist is much more "eisegesis" than you may have at first supposed.

And we see this holy convocation attended by Paul "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4

Sorry Bob, but this is very weak stuff. None of the verses you provide call the sabbath a day of worship. Trying to make the text say something it doesn't is eisegesis (interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions)

"And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks." Acts of the Apostles Acts 18:4

There's nothing in that text that clearly says what you want it to say. There's nothing in all of scripture that says the sabbath is the day you attend church to worship. Whereas scripture consistently says that the sabbath is a day of rest.
 
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BobRyan

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Leviticus 23:3 coupled with Leviticus 23:7-8, Leviticus 23:21, Leviticus 23:35, Numbers 28:18, Numbers 28:25 make it clear the "holy convocation" is expressed in ceasing from labor resting.

Nope - Holy Convocation is a "convocation" of worship. Jews would travel from far away to gather together at these annual times of "holy convocation" -- "solemn assemblies"

Matthew Henry:
"Some read it, These are my assemblies, but that is co-incident with convocations.... the annual feasts were made more remarkable by the general attendance at the sanctuary,...Christ appointed the New-Testament sabbath to be a holy convocation, by meeting his disciples once and again (and perhaps oftener) on the first day of the week"

Those who choose to observe the Bible Sabbath - assemble for worship as part of that Sabbath rest.

Is 66: "23 ...from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord." -- and Isaiah's readers knew that Sabbath is a day of worship as Lev 23:2-3 had already stated.

There's nothing in all of scripture that says the sabbath is the day you attend church to worship.

Holy Assembly - "holy convocation" and sacred rest in scripture are not the mutually-exclusive ideas you have suggested. Hence all the "holy Assembly" that see every Sabbath in Acts 18:4, in Acts 17:1-5 and in Acts 13
 
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BobRyan

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"And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks." Acts of the Apostles Acts 18:4

There's nothing in that text that clearly says what you want it to say.

the idea that nobody assembled on the Sabbath to hear those Gospel sermons "every Sabbath" but rather they just kept resting in their homes and watching the sermons over ZOOM or heard them through open windows in the house -seems a bit extreme.

Ex 16 "TOMORROW IS the Sabbath"
Ex 20:10 "The seventh day IS the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)"

Lev 23:3
“’There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of Sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD.NIV

‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. NKJV

Acts 13:
14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them, saying, “Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen

42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God.
44 The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord

Acts 17:
Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.


Acts 16:
11 So putting out to sea from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and on the day following to Neapolis; 12 and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia, a Roman colony; and we were staying in this city for some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.

Acts 18:
. 4 And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Amazing how often we see "solemn assemblies" on Sabbath with Gospel preaching even in the NT


Is 66: "23 ...from one Sabbath to another, shall all mankind come to worship before me, saith the Lord." -- and Isaiah's readers knew that Sabbath is a day of worship as Lev 23:2-3 had already stated.

Nehemiah 8:2
2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month.
8 They read from the book, from the law of Elohim, translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading.
3 And he read from it before the public square which was in front of the Water Gate, from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Nope - Holy Convocation is a "convocation" of worship. Jews would travel from far away to gather together at these annual times of "holy convocation"

Only if you change rest to worship, or you add it into the scripture. Surely if the sabbath being a day of worship was that important, God would have made that much clearer. You wouldn't only have two or three verses where you have to try reading that into the text.
 
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Ceallaigh

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the idea that nobody assembled on the Sabbath to hear those Gospel sermons "every Sabbath" but rather they just kept resting in their homes and watching the sermons over ZOOM or heard them through open windows in the house -seems a bit extreme.

That's conjecture. You have to speculate about this, because it's not clearly stated that the sabbath is a day of worship. Maybe they assembled to worship on the sabbath (more conjecture), but there's nothing in scripture that clearly says to worship on the sabbath, or that clearly says the sabbath is a day of worship. If there was, you'd actually have an irrefutable slam dunk.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Only if you change rest to worship, or you add it into the scripture. Surely if the sabbath being a day of worship was that important, God would have made that much clearer. You wouldn't only have two or three verses where you have to try reading that into the text.
How much more clearer can this be? God not only spoke it He wrote it. He made it so easy to understand a fourth grader could get it.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Isaiah 58:13

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

I guess I don’t understand why this is complicated.

Do you think a day of worship should be a day that God deemed holy, blessed, sanctified, hallowed and specifically asked us to Remember or a day that God told us to do all our work and labor? Exodus 20:9
 
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Only if you change rest to worship

Nope - you just have "Holy Convocation" and "sacred Assembly" on Sabbath for that "Worship" element

And notice "the details" for how often that is done even in the NT - with Gospel preaching.
 
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