God's unconditional promises to the ancient nation of Israel

Biblewriter · Jul 24, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Your definition only works by ignoring Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5, of the same letter to the church at Rome. Do you think Paul changed his mind after he wrote this part of the letter? Do you think he was saying Jews would be saved outside of the New Covenant Church during a future time, as Dispensationalists often claim?

You are also ignoring 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11. These last two passages actually define the word "antichrist".
Dispensationalists love to speculate about the word "antichrist", but how many times have we heard them discuss the two passages above? Why? These passages reveal there cannot be Two Peoples of God, in the same way John 10:16 reveals there cannot be Two Peoples of God.

The New Covenant

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.

The difference between the scriptures you are quoting, and the ones I quoted, is that the scriptures I quoted actually say exactly what I pointed out, while the scriptures you are quoting never, even once, actually say what you imagine them to mean.

BABerean2 · Jul 25, 2021

Biblewriter said:
The difference between the scriptures you are quoting, and the ones I quoted, is that the scriptures I quoted actually say exactly what I pointed out, while the scriptures you are quoting never, even once, actually say what you imagine them to mean.

Thank God, that people on this forum can actually read the scriptures for themselves, instead of believing what I say, or what you say.

We are looking for unbiased witnesses, who are not afraid to find out what they believed in the past does not match up to what is plainly written in the text of the Bible. Some of those on this forum are former Dispensationalists, who had to reject the doctrine they once believed based on scripture.

Anyone who claims God did not keep His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary, has cut the verse below out of their Bibles.
Did Jesus tell the truth in His last three words on the cross?

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Pastor Jerry Johnson is a former Dispensationalist, who reveals the man that brought Dispensational Theology to the U.S. about the time of the Civil War:

.

.

Biblewriter · Jul 25, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Thank God, that people on this forum can actually read the scriptures for themselves, instead of believing what I say, or what you say.

We are looking for unbiased witnesses, who are not afraid to find out what they believed in the past does not match up to what is plainly written in the text of the Bible. Some of those on this forum are former Dispensationalists, who had to reject the doctrine they once believed based on scripture.

Pastor Jerry Johnson is a former Dispensationalist, who reveals the man that brought Dispensational Theology to the U.S. about the time of the Civil War:

.

.

And others on this forum believe what God actually said, instead of the wrested interpretations of those who deny that God will actually keep His promises to the ancient nation of Israel.

Clare73 · Jul 25, 2021

Biblewriter said:
This is completely incorrect. There is no scripture that says that Abraham was ever told that he would personally be able to take possession of the land. But, contrary to your claim, God EXPLICITLY told him the very opposite.

You are using your personal interpretation of the meaning of a scripture that does not actually say what you claim it means, as an excuse for denying what another scripture explicitly says.

Non-reponsive to Hebrews 11:13.

Biblewriter · Jul 25, 2021

Clare73 said:
Non-reponsive to Hebrews 11:13.

It was responsive to your incorrect allegation that Hebrews 11:13 says that God made a promise which He did not keep. Not only does Hebrews 11:13 not SAY that, it does not even IMPLY that.

You are forgetting that in Numbers 23:19, God himself called it lying if He were not going to keep a promise that He had made.

Clare73 · Jul 25, 2021

Biblewriter said:
It was responsive to your incorrect allegation that Hebrews 11:13 says that God made a promise which He did not keep. Not only does Hebrews 11:13 not SAY that, it does not even IMPLY that.

You are forgetting that in Numbers 23:19, God himself called it lying if He were not going to keep a promise that He had made.

Hebrews 11:13 - "They did not receive the things promised."
The land was promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and they did not receive it.

You got it WRONG. Prophecy is not always LITERAL.

Your effort to overturn Hebrews 11:13 for the sake of your personal theology is futile.

Non-responsive.

Biblewriter · Jul 25, 2021

Clare73 said:
Hebrews 11:13 - "They did not receive the things promised."
The land was promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and they did not receive it.

You got it WRONG. Prophecy is not always LITERAL.

Non-responsive.

You are INTERPRETING a poor translation of the Greek text. And the INTERPRETATION you are placing on the translation makes God out to be a liar. Whether you INTEND to call God a liar or not is immaterial. That is the RESULT of your erroneous INTERPRETATION.

BABerean2 · Jul 25, 2021

Biblewriter said:
And others on this forum believe what God actually said, instead of the wrested interpretations of those who deny that God will actually keep His promises to the ancient nation of Israel.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Jesus' Side Is Pierced
Joh 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Joh 19:32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.
Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (Quoted word-for-word from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Who fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34 in the passage above?

Where was the New Covenant fulfilled?

When was the New Covenant fulfilled

Who is the "house of Israel", and the "house of Judah" in the passage above?
(See Acts 2:14, and Acts 2:36 .)

Why do most Dispensational preachers ignore this passage?

.

Clare73 · Jul 25, 2021

Biblewriter said:
You are INTERPRETING a poor translation of the Greek text. And the INTERPRETATION you are placing on the translation makes God out to be a liar. Whether you INTEND to call God a liar or not is immaterial. That is the RESULT of your erroneous INTERPRETATION.

Indeed!

And the author of Hebrews addresses that precise objection in v.16.

God would have been ashamed to call himself their God (his promise of the Abrahamic covenant--Genesis 17:7) had he not prepared an eternal city for them;
i.e., the promises were fulfilled spiritually.

Still trying to overturn Hebrews 11:13.

You got it WRONG. Prophecy is not always LITERAL.

Non-responsive. . .

Biblewriter · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
Indeed!

And the author of Hebrews addresses that precise objection in v.16.

God would have been ashamed to call himself their God (his promise of the Abrahamic covenant--Genesis 17:7) had he not prepared an eternal city for them; i.e., the promises were kept spiritually.

Still trying to overturn Hebrews 11:13.

You got it WRONG. Prophecy is not always LITERAL.

Non-responsive. . .

Again, you are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANING of one scripture as a lame excuse for what other scriptures EXPLICITLY say.

Biblewriter · Jul 26, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Jesus' Side Is Pierced
Joh 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Joh 19:32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.
Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (Quoted word-for-word from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Who fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34 in the passage above?

Where was the New Covenant fulfilled?

When was the New Covenant fulfilled

Who is the "house of Israel", and the "house of Judah" in the passage above?
(See Acts 2:14, and Acts 2:36 .)

Why do most Dispensational preachers ignore this passage?

.

All of the scriptures you have quoted are COMPLETELY true, and are believed by EVERY real Dispensationalist. But NOT EVEN ONE of them says, or even IMPLIES, that God will not ACTUALLY keep EVERY promise He made to the ancient nation of Israel.

BABerean2 · Jul 26, 2021

Biblewriter said:
All of the scriptures you have quoted are COMPLETELY true, and are believed by EVERY real Dispensationalist. But NOT EVEN ONE of them says, or even IMPLIES, that God will not ACTUALLY keep EVERY promise He made to the ancient nation of Israel.

Can you share with us what you have written in your books about the fulfillment of the New Covenant found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?

.

Clare73 · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
Hebrews 11:13 = "They did not receive the things promised."
And then the author of Hebrews addresses your precise objection in v.16.
"God would have been ashamed to call himself their God" (his promise of the Abrahamic covenant--Genesis 17:7) had he not prepared an eternal city for them; i.e., the promises were fulfilled spiritually.

You got it WRONG. Prophecy is not always LITERAL.

Biblewriter said:
Again, you are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANING of one scripture as a lame excuse for what other scriptures EXPLICITLY say.

Non-responsive to Hebrews 11:13-16.
.

Biblewriter · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
Non-responsive to Hebrews 11:13-16.
.

I am responding to what you are saying, rather than to the scripture you keep citing, because that scripture simply does not say what you are claiming it says.

You are making one of the most common errors in interpreting scripture. That error is simply ASSUMING that YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANING of something in the Bible is what it SAYS.

The HARD TRUTH remains, that absolutely nothing in Hebrews 11 actually says, or, for that matter, even IMPLIES, that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were EVER promised that they would be able to PERSONALLY assume possession of the land.

And in insisting that these scriptures say this, which they simply DO NOT say, you are willfully ignoring the other HARD FACT that Abraham was EXPLICITLY told that the promise applied, not to himself personally, but to the fourth generation of his descendants.

God's actual words were “ ‘Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.’ ” (Genesis 15:13-16)

You are also willfully ignoring the HARD FACT that God Himself called it lying if He were not going to actually KEEP the promises He made. For He said:

“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” (Numbers 23:19)

And:

“My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
Once I have sworn by My holiness;
I will not lie to David:
His seed shall endure forever,
And his throne as the sun before Me;
It shall be established forever like the moon,
Even like the faithful witness in the sky.” (Psalm 89:34)

So, in both of these two passages, God Himself called it a "LIE" if He made a promise He was not going to actually keep.

Clare73 · Jul 26, 2021

Biblewriter said:
I am responding to what you are saying, rather than to the scripture you keep citing,

Non-responsive to Hebrews 11:13-16, "They did not receive the things promised."

You got it WRONG. Prophechy is not always LITERAL.

Biblewriter · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
Non-responsive to Hebrews 11:13-16.

Actually, pointing out that the scripture you are citing DOES NOT say, or even IMPLY, what you are claiming it means IS responding to it.

Clare73 · Jul 26, 2021

Biblewriter said:
Actually, pointing out that the scripture you are citing DOES NOT say, or even IMPLY, what you are claiming it means IS responding to it.

Non-responsive to Hebrews 11:13-16, "They did not receive the things promised."

You got it WRONG. Prophechy is not always LITERAL.

Biblewriter · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
Non-responsive to Hebrews 11:13-16, "They did not receive the things promised."

You got it WRONG. Prophechy is not always LITERAL.

Ss this has degenerated onto a mere chldish argument, I am bowing out.

Clare73 · Jul 26, 2021

Biblewriter said:
Ss this has degenerated onto a mere chldish argument, I am bowing out.

That's usually what happens when one party refuses to deal with a Biblical argument, as in Hebrews 11:13-16, "They did not receive the things promised."

You got it WRONG. All prophecy is not LITERAL.

Biblewriter · Jul 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
That's usually what happens when one party refuses to deal with a Biblical argument, as in Hebrews 11:13-16, "They did not receive the things promised."

You got it WRONG. All prophecy is not LITERAL.

I dealt with it by pointing out that it most absolutely DOES NOT say what you are claiming it says. Over and out

God's unconditional promises to the ancient nation of Israel

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