Purpose of the sabbath

To get back to the topic. The purpose of the sabbath is to give us a day of rest. Leviticus 23:3, Leviticus 23:7-8, Leviticus 23:21, Leviticus 23:35, Numbers 28:18, Numbers 28:25 makes it clear that the sabbath day is kept holy by ceasing labor.

As a side note: getting up for church instead of sleeping in and getting yourself and your kids dressed up and diving to church, isn't really resting.

HARK! said:

Can you show me the scripture which states that I must personally sacrifice an oxen? I doubt it.

YHWH doesn't like strange fire.

Click to expand...

Do you sacrifice the Passover lamb?

Marc Munday said:

27Then Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!”

Click to expand...

The first point that is most overlooked beyond "it is a day of rest", is that it is also a Memorial
of the Torah that binds the people together in a shared relationship with YHVH.
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that you(all) were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm;
therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Furthermore, the Sabbath is a day that fills all days, for the command states:
Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
To truly keep the day holy, you need to remember the Sabbath every day, because your activities throughout the workweek will impact your ability to truly rest on the Lord's day.
Throughout the Gospels, the disciples are taught that the day of the master's return becomes the focus of every day. Someone who had truly kept the Sabbath holy should be in a unique position to comprehend the significance of being a faithful servant of Christ, who is ever watchful, seven days a week.
The Sabbath is a covenant sign to the nations for Israel, a witness to all unbelievers.

MMXX said:

To get back to the topic. The purpose of the sabbath is to give us a day of rest. Leviticus 23:3, Leviticus 23:7-8, Leviticus 23:21, Leviticus 23:35, Numbers 28:18, Numbers 28:25 makes it clear that the sabbath day is kept holy by ceasing labor.

As a side note: getting up for church instead of sleeping in and getting yourself and your kids dressed up and diving to church, isn't really resting.

Click to expand...

You have it backwards, we cease work on God's Sabbath so we can keep His Sabbath day holy. Resting is part of it, but the main point of God's Sabbath is to have a full day of communion with our Savior. Feasting on His Word, praying and fellowship. The commandment is Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exodus 20:8 It's a slight but an important distinction.

MMXX said:

That was a real flamboyant reply to a post that was directed at someone else. I get the idea you want to keep EGW off to the side in the background and act like her influence was minimal, but the person I was addressing seems more inclined to give her top billing as "our prophetess".

Click to expand...

Some posters wear the SDA tag for some reason, but they do not attend an SDA church nor believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Adventist church. @BobRyan is not one of those posters.

LoveGodsWord said:

John then links the obedience of God's law to love at the end of 1 John 3:10 where he says , In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother because love is expressed in obedience to God's law not by breaking God's law. In 1 John 3:11-24 John compared hate with murder and breaking God's commandments with love and obedience to Gods' commandments. This is the new covenant teaching of Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and why we need to be born again to love in order to keep God's law from the heart. John also defines what he means in linking obedience to God's law to love when he says in 1 John 2:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Click to expand...

Once again, you fail to understand the connection between the 10 commandments, and the 613 commandments which are directly related to keeping the 10 commandments.

Also once again, you referred to Hebrews 8:6-12, but ignored Hebrews 8:13, because it says the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

You tried the old "bait-and-switch" again by quoting from 1 John, but ignored 1 John 3:22-24, which defines "His commandments".

Former SDA Pastor Dale Ratzlaff reveals the connection between the 613 commandments and the 10 commandments in the video below.


.

BABerean2 said:

Once again, you fail to understand the connection between the 10 commandments, and the 613 commandments which are directly related to keeping the 10 commandments.

Click to expand...

It seems your understanding of the old and new covenants are in error but let me explain why if it might be helpful to you. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. It is your understanding of what the old covenant was and what the new covenant is that is the problem here. According to the scriptures the old covenant included both God's 10 commandments as the standard of good and evil (sin and righteousness) and the Mosiac book of the covenant *see Exodus 24:7 for remission of sins which collectively made up the old covenant.

The old covenant was a system that included a standard for good and evil (God's 10 commandments) and what the new covenant calls now calls "shadow laws" (Hebrews 10:1-8) for forgiveness of sins from the Mosiac book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 that included all the laws for remission of sins, the Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary and sin offerings in animal sacrifices that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for mankind under the new covenant. It is this old system that is done away and fulfilled and continued in the new covenant pointing to Jesus and His work and ministration on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man (Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22).

You mix up the "shadow laws" from the Mosiac book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) with God's eternal laws that the new covenant scriptures tell us give us the knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11. So as shown in the scriptures here it is your understanding of what you think the old covenant is and what the new covenant is that is the problem. If you do not understand therefore what the old covenant was how then can you understand what the new covenant is that the old covenant points to in Christ? You may want to consider that your teachings that Gods 10 commandments are abolished contradict the new testament scripture as everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living (scripture support here and here linked).

Sin is knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments. *James 2:10-11; James 4:17 and not believing and following Gods' Word (Romans 14:23). So here we have a dilemma do we believe what God says or do we believe what the world says? I say this with all love and respect. As shown through the scriptures all through this thread your teaching is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) which is not the teaching of the bible or Gods' Word or the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that you might hear God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear it becomes our judge come judgment day according to John 12:47-48.

BABerean2 said:

Also once again, you referred to Hebrews 8:6-12, but ignored Hebrews 8:13, because it says the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

Click to expand...

I have only posted we are in the new covenant not the old covenant so I did not need to post Hebrews 8:13 because I already agree we are in the new covenant now. What I am challenging though is your understanding of both the old and new covenant. I believe you do not know what they are. That is why I posted the scriptures from the previous section so they might be a help to you.

BABerean2 said:

You tried the old "bait-and-switch" again by quoting from 1 John, but ignored 1 John 3:22-24, which defines "His commandments". Former SDA Pastor Dale Ratzlaff reveals the connection between the 613 commandments and the 10 commandments in the video below.

Click to expand...

I have not baited and switched anything. All I have done is respectfully gone through all your posts section by section and scripture by scripture and shown by the scriptures alone that your teachings of lawlessness (without law) is not biblical. Every time I do this it is you who wants to move on right away to something different. So you might want to consider the beam here you are trying to accuse others of. As posted earlier we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. The "shadow laws" for remission of sins are now fulfilled and continued in Christ (Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:26-31). It seems you do not know the difference between the "shadow laws" that point to Jesus from the old covenant and his role in the new covenant and God's eternal law that give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) in the new covenant. According to the scriptures in the new covenant it is God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them according to James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin. Of course this includes God's 4th commandment that is one of God's 10 commandments. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus say that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9.

Do you believe the words of Jesus here?

HARK! said:

You might want to read the whole letter.

(CLV) Ja 2:8
Howbeit, if you are discharging the royal law, according to the scripture, "You shall be loving your associate as yourself," you are doing ideally.

This can not be found in the Ten Words; but it is found in YHWH's perfect Torah.

Click to expand...

The Royal Law, is love thy neighbor as thyself. For love fulfils the law and does no ill. But if we have respect to persons we commit sin and we are then convinced of the Law, the Ten as transgressors.
For if we keep the whole Law, the Ten which the Royal Law, love governs. Yet offend, sin in one point we become guilty of all.

How do we know that the law, the whole Law James mentions through God is the Ten? Context. In verse 9 and 10 He says, law then whole law and then starts naming some of the Ten. Keeping every thing together in respect to context by using the conjunctives, but and for.
Then he through God groups the Royal law, and the law, the whole law, the Ten into one in verse 12 by mentioning being judge by the Law of Liberty, the engrafted word, the new creature begotten, us. Which we are warned to look into as a mirror and not forget what manner of man we have become through Christ. Not to be a forgetful hearer of the engrafted word but a doer continuing therein, thereby we shall be blessed in the deeds.

For if we are judged by the Law of Liberty and convinced from the Law, the whole Law, the ten to be transgressors then the law, the whole Law the ten and the Royal Law is that which is engrafted word, the perfect Law of Liberty.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

LoveGodsWord said:

It seems your understanding of the old and new covenants are in error but let me explain why if it might be helpful to you. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. It is your understanding of what the old covenant was and what the new covenant is that is the problem here. According to the scriptures the old covenant included both God's 10 commandments as the standard of good and evil (sin and righteousness) and the Mosiac book of the covenant *see Exodus 24:7 for remission of sins which collectively made up the old covenant.

Click to expand...

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

As revealed by the verse above, the 10 commandments are the Sinai Covenant.
The 613 commandments explain how to keep the 10 commandments.
What part of this do you not understand?


This is the same covenant of "bondage" Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" in Galatians 4:24-31.

It is the same covenant which is now "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13.

.

LGW, have you ignored 1Jn 3:19-24? Well, some on the forum including me have not ignore those verses. Why is it you ignore passages that clearly make what you have presented to not be true? You keep telling us "That is not true." yet the scriptures you provide are mostly taken out of context or not even related. How is it that others and I can make our points with short posts, but your posts are outstandingly long, never are there any scriptures copied out for easy reading, so if we want to know we have to look them up and then we find that they are out of context or completely have no bearing on the subject. When we point that out, we never get a response from you. Also, I notice that you never give any of our posts any credit or merit.

LGW, Are the greatest commandments ever given, until Jesus NEW COMMAND, shadow commands? Well, maybe you should be aware that the love commands came out of the mouth of God and not part of the few commands written with God's finger on stone. Would the command not to glean the corners of fields be a shadow command?

BABerean2 said:

All of the ten commandments are repeated in some way in the New Testament, except for the 4th commandment which is explained below.


Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;


And confirmed below by the Early Church Fathers who lived before the time of Constantine.

Early Church Fathers on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110])...

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.).....


.

Click to expand...

That is not scripture. Those were preserved by the apostate Catholic Church. Here is something else preserved by the Catholic Church but has been suppressed. We wonder why.....
Pro. Bacchiocchi was given access to the Vatican Library and discovered that Epiphanius (about 350) tells the story of the direct descendants of the Jerusalem church. Epiphanius informs us that the Nazarenes persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until his own time (about A.D. 350). Bacchiocchi found this document in Greek and Latin. He shared this finding with his professor, who admitted that this was a fatal blow to the thought that the Jerusalem church made the change from Sabbath to Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. If a direct descendent of the Jerusalem church insisted and persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until the fourth century, then they could hardly have been responsible for changing the Sabbath to Sunday in the first place. His finding definitely showed the Jerusalem church is excluded. In his defense of his dissertation, his professor admitted having changed his mind and acknowledged that Sunday keeping is a post apostolic.

There are other documents and historical witnesses in respect to the Sabbath being kept. LovesGodsWord has posted them and we sure you have seen them. But like was said at the beginning of this post they are not God's Word. And God's Word is what we should stick to.

BABerean2 said:

All of the ten commandments are repeated in some way in the New Testament, except for the 4th commandment which is explained below.


Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;

Click to expand...

You are misunderstanding Colossians. It is the handwriting of the ordinances or mind you to the ordinances that were blotted out due to our sins being forgiven that the meat and drink, the holy days and new moons and sabbath days are of. Not the Sabbath of the Ten but of the sabbaths of the blotted out handwriting of the or mind you to the ordinances that were against us due to our sin. How do we know verse 16 is being stated in relation to verse 14? By the use of the conjunctive word therefore in verse 16. This connects 16 to the previous context which was already started in 13 thru 15.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

All of the ten commandments are repeated in some way in the New Testament, except for the 4th commandment which is explained below.

Click to expand...

You are mistaken in respect to this also. Hebrews 4 talks of the Seventh Day, the Sabbath. And Acts mentions the Sabbath keeping of the Apostles and the church quit often.

=================== begin quote
BobRyan said: ↑
I never "debate a video" -- I prefer actual points made in a discussion thread.

But to the point of this thread - is about the Sabbath... might be a good idea to stay on topic.

SDAs were initially "first day Adventists" -- and did not keep the Bible Sabbath until some Seventh-day Baptist members brought the issue to the attention of a few key leaders in the Adventist church.

IF your point is that you think Seventh-day Baptists got all their information about the Sabbath from Ellen White and then contacted Adventists to get them to accept the Bible Sabbath - well you might want to make that argument with a bit more clarity on this "purpose of the Sabbath" thread. Because as it is now there are a lot of other groups other than Seventh-day Adventists keeping the Bible Sabbath which includes Messianic Jews, Seventh-day Baptists and many others.
================ end quote

MMXX said:

That was a real flamboyant reply to a post that was directed at someone else.

Click to expand...

Do you consider your posts on an open discussion thread to be a private 1-on-1 conversation?

MMXX said:

I get the idea you want to keep EGW off to the side in the background

Click to expand...

1. The title of the thread is "the purpose of the Sabbath" not "the purpose of Ellen White"
2. Non-SDAs are posting here in favor of the Sabbath - Ellen White is not on their radar at all.
3. At the end of the day the Sabbath doctrine stands or falls sola-scriptura not sola-Ellen-White as some non-SDAs seem to have imagined to themselves.

MMXX said:

and act like her influence was minimal, but the person I was addressing seems more inclined to give her top billing as "our prophetess".

Click to expand...

No Doubt SDAs have Belief #18 about prophecy - but when it comes to the Sabbath and Ellen White - she is not the one that introduced it to the Adventists -

BABerean2 said:

Once again, you fail to understand the connection between the 10 commandments, and the 613 commandments which are directly related to keeping the 10 commandments.

Click to expand...

The ten are included in the moral Law of God written on the heart under the NEW COVENANT of Jer 31:31-34 - as both Jeremiah and his readers well knew.

As the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19 freely admits
As D.L. Moody freely admits in his sermon on the TEN Commandments
As the Westminster Confession of Faith admits when it too states that the TEN were "written on the heart and mind" - the very claim that the NEW Covenant makes about the Law of God.

BABerean2 said:

Also once again, you referred to Hebrews 8:6-12, but ignored Hebrews 8:13, because it says the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

Click to expand...

It does not say it made "God's Law obsolete". So then it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" -- even for Christians. And "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 by definition --- even in the NT

Heb 8:6-12 tells us that it was Christ speaking at Sinai - and that the Commandments known to Jeremiah and his readers are written on the heart and mind.

The NT states that the LAW still in place included the TEN having "honor your father and mother - as the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:1-2

No wonder scripture tells us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

HIM said:

Prof. Bacchiocchi was given access to the Vatican Library and discovered that Epiphanius (about 350) tells the story of the direct descendants of the Jerusalem church. Epiphanius informs us that the Nazarenes persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until his own time (about A.D. 350). Bacchiocchi found this document in Greek and Latin. He shared this finding with his professor, who admitted that this was a fatal blow to the thought that the Jerusalem church made the change from Sabbath to Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. If a direct descendent of the Jerusalem church insisted and persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until the fourth century, then they could hardly have been responsible for changing the Sabbath to Sunday in the first place. His finding definitely showed the Jerusalem church is excluded. In his defense of his dissertation, his professor admitted having changed his mind and acknowledged that Sunday keeping is a post apostolic.

Click to expand...

Great point --

HIM said:

You are misunderstanding Colossians. It is the handwriting of the ordinances

Click to expand...

The "handwriting"(KJV) is the "certificate of debt"(NASB) -- the ticket.
The "ordinance" (KJV) is the "decrees against us"(NASB) based on that certificate of debt - the decree that we must suffer the fire and brimstone of the 2nd death.

NASB says "certificate of debt contained in decrees against us" - the debt of sin - our doom to the second death lake of fire - paid by Christ on the cross.

NIV in 1 John 2:2 "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only - but for the sins of the whole world"


Col 2:13 And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, 14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Our debt of sin - our wrong doings dictate that we must die the second death of Rev 20. Our "Certificate of debt" the exact amount owed (Luke 12 says some owe much and some less)

The "handwriting"(KJV) is the "certificate of debt"(NASB) -- the ticket.
The "ordinance" (KJV) is the "decrees against us"(NASB) based on that certificate of debt - the decree that we must suffer the fire and brimstone of the 2nd death.

Example:
The speed limit Law is not "a decree against you"

The ticket is. It is a decree against you for your violation of law.
The exact amount on the ticket has to be paid.
The power of the ticket is the law - but Christ's solution was not to delete the law - but to pay the ticket.

And none of the ceremonial laws applied to gentile world which would be 99.999 % of the world