Purpose of the sabbath

klutedavid

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"honor your father and mother which is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2
Rom 13 says to "fulfill the law" and lists far more commandments than James 2.

So are you using James 2:10 as an argument to ignore the command James quotes "do not kill"?

How are you using James 2?
If your going to quote from Ephesians please quote the entire verse. You keep snipping that verse (Ephesians 6:1).
 
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HARK!

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Are you claiming that Jesus did not fulfill the entire law and the prophets?

Do you believe that there is a new heaven and a new earth?

Are you claiming that the entire law is still in force for the nation of Israel, under that old covenant?

Yahshua claimed that nothing has passed form the law. Israel is in a renewed covenant.

Has a letter passed from the law or not?

Not according to Yahshua.
 
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klutedavid

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Do you believe that there is new heaven and a new earth?
Please answer my questions Hark. Stop trying to change direction.

You honestly believe that not one letter of the law has passed?

You don't think that Jesus fulfilled the entire law?
 
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HARK!

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Please answer my questions Hark. Stop trying to change direction.

I wasn't changing directions.

That question was supposed to prompt you to think about your own question.


The Millennial Reign has not come. This means that all of the Torah and the Prophets have not been fulfilled.
 
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klutedavid

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I wasn't changing directions.

That question was supposed to prompt you to think about your own question.


The Millennial Reign has not come. This means that all of the Torah and the Prophets have not been fulfilled.
So Jesus did not fulfill the law and the prophets according to you.

So the entire law must be in full force because the law has not been fulfilled. Every single letter of the law is in force. That is what your claiming.

The millennial reign and the return of Jesus has nothing to do with Jesus satisfying the law fully.
 
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guevaraj

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Only the nation of Israel is guilty for breaking the Sabbath. Gentile nations were never given the Sabbath. You are in error on this point.
Brother, there is verification of having correctly understood that Gentiles "come in" to "all Israel".

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the FULL NUMBER of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:25b-29 NIV)​

We who "come in" to "all Israel" are no longer Gentiles but part of "all Israel". Verified in this next passage through "citizenship" in Israel, we are no longer Gentiles, but part of "all Israel".

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household (Ephesians 2:12,13,19 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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klutedavid

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Do you believe that there is a new heaven and a new earth?
How would you or I know whether the new earth and heaven exist now, but have not been revealed. According to Paul we are already seated in the heavenly realms. You are skating on thin ice.
Yahshua claimed that nothing has passed form the law. Israel is in a renewed covenant.
No He did not. Jesus arrived to fulfill the law, what do you think the perfect sacrifice was all about?

The old covenant is obsolete, your argument has collapsed.

There is no mention of a renewed covenant with Israel, they have been grafted out.

Jesus invoked a new covenant.
 
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klutedavid

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Brother, there is verification of having correctly understood that Gentiles "come in" to "all Israel".

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the FULL NUMBER of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:25b-29 NIV)​

We who "come in" to "all Israel" are no longer Gentiles but part of "all Israel". Verified in this next passage through "citizenship" in Israel, we are no longer Gentiles, but part of "all Israel".

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household (Ephesians 2:12,13,19 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
We are members of a new covenant, we are a new creation now. The concept of a Jew or a Gentile has been annulled.

Theocratic Israel has not existed for two thousand years.
 
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HARK!

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So the entire law must be in full force because the law has not been fulfilled. Every single letter of the law is in force. That is what your claiming.

You're shifting the goal posts. Every single letter of the law is still in full force. This is self evident if you believe Yahshua.

Yahshua said that the law stands until earth passes away.

The earth is still here in my time zone.

The millennial reign and the return of Jesus has nothing to do with Jesus satisfying the law fully.

It does however have everything to do with the Prophets being fully fulfilled.
 
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klutedavid

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You're shifting the goal posts. Every single letter of the law is still in full force. This is self evident if you believe Yahshua.

Yahshua said that the law stands until earth passes away.

The earth is still here in my time zone.



It does however have everything to do with the Prophets being fully fulfilled.
So you still sacrificing oxen are you. Your still entering the inner court to atone for your sins every year?

As the law dictates.
 
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klutedavid

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You're shifting the goal posts. Every single letter of the law is still in full force. This is self evident if you believe Yahshua.

Yahshua said that the law stands until earth passes away.

The earth is still here in my time zone.



It does however have everything to do with the Prophets being fully fulfilled.
So you are not a new creation in Christ?
 
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HARK!

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How would you or I know whether the new earth and heaven exist now, but have not been revealed. According to Paul we are already seated in the heavenly realms. You are skating on thin ice.

I'm still on this planet.

No He did not. Jesus arrived to fulfill the law, what do you think the perfect sacrifice was all about?

He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. When did Yahshua fulfill all of the law?

The old covenant is obsolete, your argument has collapsed.

The renewed covenant picked up where the Mosaic covenant left off. The law is the same. Let's not conflate the Torah with the Brit. It's a common mistake.

There is no mention of a renewed covenant with Israel, they have been grafted out.

Nonsense

Jesus invoked a new covenant.

It's a renewed covenant.
 
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guevaraj

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So you are not a new creation in Christ?
Brother, Jesus died so we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago", before sin entered the human family.

For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (Ephesians 2:10 NIV)​

The purpose of creating us anew is given in the previous verse: so that we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago". Long ago, God planned for us the seventh day of creation, before sin entered the human family, to remember His "holy" day. We will remember "the Lord's day" in gratitude for His salvation as the early church in Jerusalem did, before the bishops of Rome legislated the invented human tradition of Sunday to replace God's Sabbath that protestants adapted.

As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. (Isaiah 66:22-23 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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So you still sacrificing oxen are you. Your still entering the inner court to atone for your sins every year?

As the law dictates.

Can you show me the scripture which states that I must personally sacrifice an oxen? I doubt it.

YHWH doesn't like strange fire.
 
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HARK!

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So you are not a new creation in Christ?

Are you in him?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:5
And you are °ware that He was manifested that He should be taking away our sins, and in Him is not sin.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:6
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You might want to read the whole letter.

(CLV) Ja 2:8
Howbeit, if you are discharging the royal law, according to the scripture, "You shall be loving your associate as yourself," you are doing ideally.

This can not be found in the Ten Words; but it is found in YHWH's perfect Torah.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

However limiting obedience to YHWH's Torah, to only the Ten Words, not only contradicts James; it contradicts Yahshua.

When Yahshua was asked of the foremost precept; he replied:

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.


(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'


(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.


(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.


(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

James calls us to the freedom found in obedience to YHWH's perfect Torah.

(CLV) Ja 1:25
Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing.

(CLV) Ps 19:7
The law of Yahweh is flawless, restoring the soul; The testimony of Yahweh is faithful, making wise the simple;

I hope this helps.

337131_a57c87e9d4cceecb724a60194b9b28ca.gif

No need context and subject matter to James 2:10-11 is to to the 10 commandments not animal sacrifices and an earthly Sanctuary and a Levitical Priesthood. It question thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not commit adultery. It is not very hard. We are in the new covenant now and Jesus is Gods' sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all. Your trying to make the scriptures say things it is not saying.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Nonsense - I have never claimed we can live a life of unrepentant sin... I cant dialogue with members who make stuff up.
Something to pay about...
Please read the post you are quoting from and the scriptures that disagree with you in post # 939 linked.
 
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HARK!

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No need context and subject matter to James 2:10-11 is to to the 10 commandments not animal sacrifices and an earthly Sanctuary and a Levitical Priesthood. It question thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not commit adultery. It is not very hard. We are in the new covenant now and Jesus is Gods' sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all. Your trying to make the scriptures say things it is not saying.

Sorry my friend, James isn't contradicting Yahshua, and YHWH himself. If this is what you believe; then we will have to agree to disagree.

Shalom
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The text actually says "the whole law", which is the 613 commandments of the law of Moses.
That does include the ten commandments written on stone found in Deuteronomy chapter 5.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The fourth commandment was not in the text, but you made sure the SDA doctrine was presented by adding to the text.

The Sin of Partiality

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.



Once again you have quoted from 1 John, without including 1 John 3:22-24.

I have had used car salesmen which tried the old "bait-and-switch" strategy on me in the past.
It is not that hard to recognize.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

As posted earlier, James 2:10-11 says nothing about 613, Circumcision, meats, feast days. It is talking specially about Gods' 10 commandments and if we break anyone of them (including God's 4th commandment) we stand guilty before God of sin. Here is what the scripture actually says so there is no hiding with this one as the context and subject matter is specifically Gods 10 commandments..

James 2:10-11 [10], for whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

Yep if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we are become a transgressor of the law as John says we commit sin which is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

.................

We should be careful to believe and follow God's Word as it says and not read into the scriptures what they do not say. Your trying to read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach. As posted earlier love is expressed through obedience to God's law not by breaking Gods' law. Those who hold on to a religion of love the promotes disobedience to God's law are following a man made teaching and tradition that is not biblical.

According to the scriptures sin is the breaking of anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 or knowingly not believing and following what God's Word says *Romans 14:23; James 4:17. John goes on to say in 1 John 2:3-4 and hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Then in 1 John 3:4-7 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. So we are told how we know God is by what we do. If we know God we do not practice sin (defined as breaking God's law and not believing his Word).

John continues, in 1 John 8-10 He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother. So the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin. That is the children of the devil practice known unrepentant sin while the children of God do not practice sin. They are obedient to Gods' law that is they do not practice breaking God's law and commit known unrepentant sin and are obedient to obeying God's commandments (see also Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14).

John then links the obedience of God's law to love at the end of 1 John 3:10 where he says , In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother because love is expressed in obedience to God's law not by breaking God's law. In 1 John 3:11-24 John compared hate with murder and breaking God's commandments with love and obedience to Gods' commandments. This is the new covenant teaching of Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and why we need to be born again to love in order to keep God's law from the heart. John also defines what he means in linking obedience to God's law to love when he says in 1 John 2:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

This is agreeing with Jesus and is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law. For example if I love my fellow man I will not lie to them, steal from them, or murder them the same as if I love God I will not have other Gods, make idols and worship them, take God's name in vain and break His "seventh day" Sabbath.

Paul is also agreeing with Jesus and John here where he says in Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love therefore according to the scriptures fulfills Gods' law and is expressed through obedience to God's law not by breaking God's law. Of course this includes our duty of love to God which includes remembering Gods' "seventh day" Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that show how we express our love to God.

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry my friend, James isn't contradicting Yahshua, and YHWH himself. If this is what you believe; then we will have to agree to disagree.
Shalom

True, James says James 2:10-11 [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.
Your trying to make the scriptures say something it is not teaching. Subject matter is God's 10 commandments

 
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