The right selection pressure, and we would see "men" come from apes, *again*?

Ponderous Curmudgeon

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Hilarious! So it can happen accidentally once but twice is impossible? If it's impossible now it's impossible then.
Heraclitus understood this 2500 years ago. “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.
 
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Strathos

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Hilarious! So it can happen accidentally once but twice is impossible? If it's impossible now it's impossible then.

Take a standard deck of 52 playing cards. Shuffle it randomly, then take the cards one at a time from the top of the deck, and record the order they came in. Then shuffle the deck again, and try to repeat the process and get the exact same order of cards.

The odds of that happening are around 1 in 8 * 10^67.

But the odds of getting any order at all on your first try are 1 in 1: 100%.

Evolution has a lot more variables, and unlike the deck of cards, it can't even be repeated from the same initial conditions because the species and environments aren't the same now as they were in the past.
 
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Subduction Zone

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So if it happened once it can't happen again? Makes no sense.
No, it makes perfect sense. Other apes could evolve into something that is very similar to humans, they could not evolve into humans.

Your question made no sense. It demonstrates that you do not understand what you are trying to refute. You cannot refute that which you do not understand.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Then why do we get answers like: "It isn't random."? Sounds pretty " binary" to me.
Why don't you just admit it when you clearly do not understand a post?

Evolution has both random events and non-random events. Creationists make the error of thinking that some random events make an out come random. That is not the case.
 
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renniks

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Perhaps you can understand that the conditions for the evolution that took millions of years can not be replicated. What process can you imagine that will duplicate all the random mutations that took place since the common ancestor of humans and apes?
Of course they can't. Because they couldn't happen to begin with. Not asking how unlikely it is. And you are just confirming that the theory is based on total randomness and chance.
 
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tas8831

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Hi there,

So this is not meant to make you feel uncomfortable, but:


I mean the apes are just waiting, to be people, right? That's your contention?
It makes me very comfortable - comfortable in seeing yet another bit of evidence that most creationists are spectacularly ignorant of evolution, and in their desperation to try to attack it make fools of themselves on a regular basis.
So...
Thanks!
 
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renniks

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Why don't you just admit it when you clearly do not understand a post?

Evolution has both random events and non-random events. Creationists make the error of thinking that some random events make an out come random. That is not the case.
Actually it does make the outcome random. It doesn't matter how much order you have in your life, one accident can change everything, and lead to a far different outcome then you planned. Even death.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Actually it does make the outcome random. It doesn't matter how much order you have in your life, one accident can change everything, and lead to a far different outcome then you planned. Even death.

Okay, you need to define "random" properly. The problem is that creationists quite often use equivocation fallacies. It is not random in the sense that creationist mean when they try to refute evolution. If you want to use a term such as "random" in a debate you need to be able to define it properly and then show how that definition supports your beliefs.

For example, if a wheel is rolling down a bumpy hill all of the various obstacles will make its path rather random. If the change that one is talking about is the wheel ending up at the bottom of the hill that change is not random. If one is very specific about the path and where it ends up that is random. That life would evolve is not random in the sense of the wheel getting to the bottom of the hill. It is random when it comes to specific species developing.
 
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Frank Robert

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Of course they can't. Because they couldn't happen to begin with. Not asking how unlikely it is. And you are just confirming that the theory is based on total randomness and chance.
Not total randomness, the sun comes out in the day, the moon at night and we have four seasons all based on natural laws. You may not trust the science but your argument is not with the science but with most Christians who hold that God fashioned the natural laws to do the grunt work.
 
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Ponderous Curmudgeon

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Of course it is if no one is guiding it. The hill itself only developed through chance in your world.
So plate tectonics is voodoo to you too. How about erosion and beaver dams and all the other stuff you contemplate while sitting in the woods?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Of course it is if no one is guiding it. The hill itself only developed through chance in your world.
Nope, not by "chance". That is a terrible term to use. Natural processes is a better term. You are trying to use a prejudicial and misleading term. There is endless evidence that life arose through natural processes too. There is no evidence of the interference of a deity.
 
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renniks

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Nope, not by "chance". That is a terrible term to use. Natural processes is a better term. You are trying to use a prejudicial and misleading term. There is endless evidence that life arose through natural processes too. There is no evidence of the interference of a deity.
Natural processes that created themselves equal chance.
 
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sjastro

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So plate tectonics is voodoo to you too. How about erosion and beaver dams and all the other stuff you contemplate while sitting in the woods?
I think linking magnetic striping with plate tectonics is one of the greatest pieces of lateral thinking used in science.
 
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Ponderous Curmudgeon

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Of course it is if no one is guiding it. The hill itself only developed through chance in your world.
On the contrary, we know where and why hills are forming now and have formed in the past. Not "chance " at all, rather knowledge gained through observation and science.
 
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Shemjaza

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Natural processes that created themselves equal chance.
It's a consequence of how matter behaves.

You can declare that divine intervention is the origin of space, matter and energy and its properties... but that will simply be a your personal conviction, not a conclusion from evidence.
 
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Shemjaza

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Wait, so every species has the potential to become human or better - we just haven't seen it, yet?
The situation that led to humanity is extremely unusual.

The right intelligence, the right manipulator limbs, the right environment... all led to the lineage that produced humanity.

Other animals probably don't even have the opportunity to follow a similar path, mainly because humans have dominated much of the planet and replaced the kinds of environments that might another technological, intelligent species to develop.
 
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