Matthew 6:22-23 KJV - "22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"
What do you make of this from post #27 ?
@Emet_Ziton
Here is post #27:
Paul explicitly demonstrates the purpose of God's revelation in nature in
Romans 1. God has revealed Himself through nature in order to provide a just basis for His rejection of all mankind. The purpose is for judgement, not for salvation. Nobody can be saved by general revelation, according to the New Testament, but must be saved by believing in the name of Jesus Christ.
Let me start by saying, God did not reveal Himself through nature in order to provide a just basis for His rejection of all mankind. That is false. Not only does Paul not say that in Romans chapter 1, he says quite the opposite in Romans 2.
First, let me post Romans 1:18-21 "18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
Let's start with, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness..." His wrath is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. Not against
all men, but those who 'hold the truth in unrighteousness'. Those that cling to ungodly falsity as truth. Jesus backs this up when He says in John 9:41, "If you were blind, you should have
no sin: but now
you say, "We see;" therefore your sin remains." So, Paul and Jesus say clinging to a rationalization of wickedness is pretty much a bad idea. Jesus also says in Matthew 6:22-23 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye is single (or whole - sees clearly), your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye is evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!" In short, if the 'truth' that you hold to is a lie, and you won't let it go - then how lost are you?
In Romans 1:19 we read, "that which may be known of God is manifest in them (the men who hold to truth in unrighteousness) for God has showed it to them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they (the men who hold to truth in unrighteousness) are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
And this is made way more clear in the next chapter. In Romans 2:1 Paul changes gears a bit, moving away from just the wicked people who delight in making excuses that permit them to remain wicked without a burning conscience, and turns his attention to folks who start judging this same wicked group, while doing the very thing that they're judging against. He says, "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you art that judges: for wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you that judge do the same things!" And I've known people who, for the sake of appearances, condemn people for things like adultery, when it turns out they themselves are adulterers. And He continues, trying to convince these wicked men to cut it out before God gets ahold of them, saying in verse 4, "Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"
Remember back in chapter one the whole "wrath of God is revealed against" these men? And yet, in chapter 2 he begins to warm up to the idea that says, "Change your ways! God's goodness, patience, and high pain tolerance is designed to wake you up, so you'll repent." That is
exactly the opposite of wrath, if I may point that out. That's mercy instead.
So, already we see that the statement "God has revealed Himself through nature in order to provide a just basis for His rejection of all mankind. The purpose is for judgement, not for salvation," isn't just wrong, it's directly the opposite of what Paul is saying.
Now, let's look at the last sentence. "Nobody can be saved by general revelation, according to the New Testament, but must be saved by believing in the name of Jesus Christ." This too, is completely wrong, and Paul himself is warming up to it right where we're at.
Here is Romans 2:5-10. "But after your hardness and unrepentant heart you treasure up for yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man
according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: But
to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"
And this is exactly what Jesus said in John 5:28-29. "“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth;
those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
I know this is terribly unpopular in the modern church - that people say things like, "Sin doesn't get you sent to hell, and righteousness doesn't get you to heaven," but I dare to say that that is holding the truth in unrighteousness. It's a very dangerous thing to teach. Because Jesus says people who do good things go to heaven, and people who do bad things go to hell. And so does Paul.
As to "not being saved by general revelation," Paul says in Romans 2:12-16, "For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law; and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."
So, sin causes death, with or without the law. However, notice that he
does say "the doers of the Law will be justified." And he makes it clear that you don't have to
have the law to
do the law. Folks have it written in their hearts even though they've never heard it. I propose this isn't some sort of psychic connection or special revelation, I propose that Jesus told us about it in Matthew 25 when He told the sheep, " inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." He then explains exactly what they did that got them in. "For I was hungry, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you clothed me: I was sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came unto me."
There it is, a sort of works of the law that make one righteous which is the path to salvation. And more than this, Jesus says as much again when He says in Matthew 7:12, "Therefore all things whatsoever you think that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for
this is the law and the prophets."
So, when Paul says in Romans 2 that there are Gentiles who never heard the law, that are doing the law by instinct,
and that their conscience can, in fact, defend them on the day when God will judge the secrets of men, then we see that salvation does not require knowing Jesus, or hearing about God. We see that good people go to heaven, and bad people go to hell. Which makes a whole lot more sense, and cures the need to have to try to defend God by saying, "Well, He's God, so if He wants to burn the innocent and call it good, then burning the innocent is good." That - is ridiculous. And evil. And everyone knows it. Every. One.
I know Paul says 'by grace you have been saved through faith, and not by works,' but that doesn't UNSAY all the other things that he and Jesus said. It just means that the 'works' there may not be what most of the modern church seems to think they are.
