Joel's End Time Prophesies

keras

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Joel 1:1-4 Hear this, you leaders, listen to Me all you inhabitants of the Land. Has anything like this happened in your days or in days gone by? Tell it to your descendants, how the Land has been despoiled and made desolate.
Disaster has happened in the past to Israel, with the various conquests, but not to the full extent as described here by Joel and other prophets. This prophecy is a warning to us, now in the last days. Zephaniah 1:14-18 & Zephaniah 3:8


Joel 1:5-12 Wake up and mourn, you drunkards, for your wine is denied to you. A vast horde has invaded My Land, with their teeth of destruction they have killed all the vines and trees. Despair, all you farmers for your harvest is lost, the ground is dry and scorched and all the good things have come to an end. Isaiah 66:15-17

Joel 1:13-18 Put on sackcloth, you Rabbis and those who administer before the altar, for the offerings are withheld. Appoint a solemn fast and mourn, all who live in the Land – cry out to the Lord. For the Day of the Lord is near – it comes, a mighty destruction from the Lord. It is already before our eyes, there is neither joy or gladness and our food is cut off. Our harvests are destroyed and our livestock are starving. Micah 1:2-4, Habakkuk 3:12

Joel 1:19-20 To You, Lord, I cry out! For fire has consumed the pastures and flames have burnt up every tree. The streams and pools have dried up. Ref. REB.


Scripture explains itself, as in the next chapter of Joel, we have the vivid description of how the Lord will carry out this forthcoming judgement upon His Land and the world. Joel 2:1-11......sound the alarm, let all the inhabitants of the Land tremble, for the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath is coming, a Day of darkness and dense cloud. A vast host appears – flames precede them, fire makes all a desolate waste behind them. As they approach, the earth shakes and thunder rolls before them as they leap the mountain tops and burst into the houses. Great is the Day of the Lord and who can endure it? Zechariah 3:9b, Jer. 4:25-28, Isaiah 5:24-25

Isaiah 30:26 tells us what it is that causes all this to happen – The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... This means what it says, it will be a coronal mass ejection, an enormous burst of cosmic particles [a vast host] exploded out from the sun and aimed directly at the earth. It is how the Lord will carry out His judgement on ALL the world – Joel 2:2a...like the dawn, spreading across the mountain tops... as the earth rotates to face the sun and all the world will be affected, but the initial and heaviest strike will hit the Middle East, at midday, as prophesied in Zephaniah 2:4


This terrible and shocking event cannot be a conventional or even nuke war as: - the like has never been known, nor will be in all the ages to come. Joel 2:2b – will strike within 8 minutes of ejection from the sun, as a powerful light flash, then 24 hours later a multi million ton mass of highly charged particles that will envelope the earth will strike, causing death and immense damage worldwide. The only thing we can do is ‘cry out to the Lord’ and trust for His protection. Which He does promise; Isaiah 43:2, Isaiah 41:13,+

Deuteronomy 32:34-43, 2Samuel 22:8-16, Isaiah 34:1-5, Psalms 11:6, Jeremiah 30:23-24 Isaiah 33:10-12, Psalms 144:5-6, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 26:21, Isaiah 30:25-30, Isa. 9:18-19, Isaiah 2:12-21, 2 Thess. 1:8, Revelation 6:12-19
 

eclipsenow

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Joel 1:5-12 Wake up and mourn, you drunkards, for your wine is denied to you. A vast horde has invaded My Land, with their teeth of destruction they have killed all the vines and trees. Despair, all you farmers for your harvest is lost, the ground is dry and scorched and all the good things have come to an end. Isaiah 66:15-17
Vast hordes travel with lit torches = flames and scorching. It's simply not about your "Great Firey Day of Wrath" (which is actually a description not of one judgement, but of THE JUDGEMENT DAY)

Joel 1:13-18 Put on sackcloth, you Rabbis and those who administer before the altar, for the offerings are withheld. Appoint a solemn fast and mourn, all who live in the Land – cry out to the Lord. For the Day of the Lord is near – it comes, a mighty destruction from the Lord. It is already before our eyes, there is neither joy or gladness and our food is cut off. Our harvests are destroyed and our livestock are starving. Micah 1:2-4, Habakkuk 3:12
I have not read the context - but this is typical of you doing a bible-mash up. You'll call this the Firey Day (FD) but fire is not mentioned. Just harvests and livestock.

Joel 1:19-20 To You, Lord, I cry out! For fire has consumed the pastures and flames have burnt up every tree. The streams and pools have dried up. Ref. REB.
Vast hordes travel with lit torches = flames and scorching. It's simply not about your "Great Firey Day of Wrath" (which in Revelation 6 is actually a description not of one judgement, but of THE ETERNAL JUDGEMENT DAY.)

Read Chapter 1. There are locusts, a nation invading, and it seems drought. Hardly a CME! It's judgement - but of the exile type - where God used pagan nations to invade.

But even if it isn't the fire of a rampaging enemy, it can also be other things.

The REFORMATION STUDY BIBLE says:

1:20 beasts of the field. Even the animals join Joel in his cry (Job 38:41; Ps. 104:21; 147:9).

fire has devoured. Divine judgment is often depicted as fire (Deut. 32:22; Ps. 50:3; 97:3). The metaphor describes the effects of drought (cf. 2:3, where the “fire” of locust devastation is depicted).​


Isaiah 30:26 tells us what it is that causes all this to happen – The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... This means what it says, it will be a coronal mass ejection, an enormous burst of cosmic particles [a vast host] exploded out from the sun and aimed directly at the earth. It is how the Lord will carry out His judgement on ALL the world

OK - your homework is to write "I will always read IN CONTEXT" on the blackboard 100 times!

Read the verses around. The sun shining 7 times brighter here is not judgement, but healing! Good rains, good food, good restoration after the days of slaughter, brightness and healing.

Isaiah 30
23 He will also send you rain for the seed you sow in the ground, and the food that comes from the land will be rich and plentiful. In that day your cattle will graze in broad meadows. 24 The oxen and donkeys that work the soil will eat fodder and mash, spread out with fork and shovel. 25 In the day of great slaughter, when the towers fall, streams of water will flow on every high mountain and every lofty hill. 26 The moon will shine like the sun, and the sunlight will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven full days, when the Lord binds up the bruises of his people and heals the wounds he inflicted.​

This terrible and shocking event cannot be a conventional or even nuke war as: - the like has never been known, nor will be in all the ages to come.
No - it really can't - because the grain is growing, the cows are lowing, the grass is growing and the brooks are flowing. At least in Isaiah 30:26. Let's check if the ESV RSB agrees....


Isa 30:26
30:26 sevenfold. Here the exaggerated figure indicates that God is with His people (2:5 note; 42:16; 60:19; Rev. 21:22, 23).

binds up . . . heals. God disciplines, but He remembers and heals the wounds of His people (19:22; 57:18; 61:1; Ps. 147:3; Jer. 3:22; 30:17; but cf. Is. 6:10).
Isa 30:26 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway

Not one commentary agrees with you - and the verses around your select verses seem to never match your interpretation either. Ever hear of cherry-picking?
 
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DavidPT

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OK - your homework is to write "I will always read IN CONTEXT" on the blackboard 100 times!

Read the verses around. The sun shining 7 times brighter here is not judgement, but healing! Good rains, good food, good restoration after the days of slaughter, brightness and healing.

Isaiah 30
23 He will also send you rain for the seed you sow in the ground, and the food that comes from the land will be rich and plentiful. In that day your cattle will graze in broad meadows. 24 The oxen and donkeys that work the soil will eat fodder and mash, spread out with fork and shovel. 25 In the day of great slaughter, when the towers fall, streams of water will flow on every high mountain and every lofty hill. 26 The moon will shine like the sun, and the sunlight will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven full days, when the Lord binds up the bruises of his people and heals the wounds he inflicted.​


No - it really can't - because the grain is growing, the cows are lowing, the grass is growing and the brooks are flowing. At least in Isaiah 30:26. Let's check if the ESV RSB agrees....


I may not agree with what time period you are applying that to, well unless you are applying it to a time period post the 2nd coming, in that case I wouldn't be disagreeing after all, but I do agree you are understanding the context properly, and that neither do I think that verse is involving judgment but that it's involving healing. Context clearly matters.
 
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keras

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OK - your homework is to write "I will always read IN CONTEXT" on the blackboard 100 times!
Here is the context of Joel 1:1-20:
Joel 2:1-5 Blow the trumpet in Israel, sound the alarm in Jerusalem. Let all who live in the Land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming – it is close at hand. A Day of darkness and clouds. Like [at] the dawn, an innumerable host comes across the land, such as never was and will never be again. A fire goes before them, leaving wasteland behind. With a great noise they leap mountains and consume everything to stubble.

Joel 2:6-11 At the sight of them, all the nations are in anguish. They march in line, none swerving against any defense. They rush upon cities and enter houses through the windows. The earth quakes and the sky is darkened. The Lord thunders at the head of His army, beyond number are those who obey His command. The Day of the Lord is great and dreadful, who can endure it?

The Day of the Lord, as described by Joel is not Armageddon, at the Return of Jesus or at the Great White Throne judgement. It is plainly an event before then, also prophesied in Isaiah 2:12-21, Revelation 6:12-17, Ezekiel 7:2-9: + over other 100 times.

Joel uses the metaphor of an army to describe how this destruction moves across the earth as it rotates- ‘with the dawn’. As nations turn to face the sun, the effects of a Coronal Mass Ejection- sunstrike will hit them. Initially, it will strike the earth as a light flash [Isaiah 30:26a] within 8 minutes, then the highly charged cosmic particles arrive about 24 hours later, causing immense destruction and deaths. Fires and volcanic eruptions will result in smoke and ash clouds, covering the sky. Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalms 18:7-15, Jeremiah 4:23-28
It will be an event 'such as never was and never shall be again'. NOT anything done by man.

Judah [the current State of Israel] is affected- Hosea 8:14, Ezekiel 20:45-48, Isaiah 4:3-4, Isaiah 29:1-4
And the Lord’s enemies: Isaiah 22:5-14, Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 63:1-6 plus many other prophesies.

Deuteronomy 32:34-43 says how He will act when His enemies ‘foot will slip”. That is they make a mistake. That mistake will be their instigating an attack against Israel.

Malachi 4:1-3 Surely the day of the Lord is coming, it will burn like a furnace. All the evildoers will be as stubble, they will be burned up. They will be ashes under your feet. But for you, who revere My Name, righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. You will rejoice and prevail over the wicked on the Day that I act against them. Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 2:7

THEN the many prophecies that describe the migration of all true believers into the Promised Land will come to pass. This great exodus of His faithful Christian people will fulfil the promises that God made to the Patriarchs and they will, at last be a people that will be a ‘light to the nations’. They will prepare themselves and the world for the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel 35:11-30, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Deuteronomy 30:1-10, Zechariah 10:6-12, Isaiah 46:27-28, Ezekiel 39:25-29, Zephaniah 10:6-12

That Jesus is not yet present at this time, is clear from the many verses saying: ‘You will know that I am the Lord, when... And how it ‘will be as in the days of Egypt’. Ezekiel 14:6-11, Ezekiel 39:22, Joel 2:27, Isaiah 41:20.

Your beliefs, Eclipse Now, do not match what scripture actually says.
 
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keras

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the 5th Trumpet judgement is actually shown in Joel 2.
How can you think that?
The Fifth Trumpet; Revelation 9:1-11, is quite different from and a few years later than the Sixth Seal and Joel's prophecy of the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
Read both prophesies and see they simply do not relate. Joel does not mention locusts; Joel describes fire, Rev 9 describes painful stinging.
 
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Jamdoc

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How can you think that?
The Fifth Trumpet; Revelation 9:1-11, is quite different from and a few years later than the Sixth Seal and Joel's prophecy of the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
Read both prophesies and see they simply do not relate. Joel does not mention locusts; Joel describes fire, Rev 9 describes painful stinging.
the appearance of the creatures described in Joel 2 is like the appearance of the creatures in Revelation 9.
 
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keras

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the appearance of the creatures described in Joel 2 is like the appearance of the creatures in Revelation 9.
They are both just metaphors for a reality. In the case of Joel; they represent the main mass of a CME, which will strike every nation as the earth rotates. The Fifth Trumpet effects are from a meteor strike, causing volcanic activity.
Maybe you could explain why you object to my simple, Biblical and science supported scenario for the forthcoming Lords Day of fiery wrath?
 
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eclipsenow

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A Day of darkness and clouds. Like [at] the dawn, an innumerable host comes across the land, such as never was and will never be again. A fire goes before them, leaving wasteland behind. With a great noise they leap mountains and consume everything to stubble.

Yes! Great words - but again you forget the context.

Joel 1:4
What the locust swarm has left
the great locusts have eaten;
what the great locusts have left
the young locusts have eaten;
what the young locusts have left
other locusts have eaten.
5 Wake up, you drunkards, and weep!
Wail, all you drinkers of wine;
wail because of the new wine,
for it has been snatched from your lips.

The locusts are compared to an invading nation that has the consuming passion of a lion (cf. 2:4–9; Rev. 9:7–9). Locusts and armies were often compared in ancient times. Mythical literature from the ancient city of Ugarit likens a large army to locusts (cf. Judg. 6:5; Prov. 30:27; Jer. 51:14, 27; Nah. 3:15–17).
Joel 1:6 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway

That's why we see GIANT locusts in Revelation - it's a symbol of all the bad locust plagues and famines of the last 2000 years rolled into one - THE metaphor for ALL famines. And how are we to respond to this as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved? With patient endurance longing for the Lord's promised return - which is the message of Revelation you are undermining - no - defiling with your silly bus-timetable approach. Here is one of the most passionate sermons to all God's people in a variety of circumstances across the horrors of the last 2000 years - and you turn the majority of it into a mere timetable, something arbitrary and meaningless for everyone living in generations prior to it.

How utterly revolting!

Also, nice dodge completely missing the '7 times brighter than the sun' BLESSING from Isaiah! :oldthumbsup:
I'd almost be amused if your re-writing of scripture didn't have such dangerous potential.
upload_2021-7-22_11-55-35.jpeg
 
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Jamdoc

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They are both just metaphors for a reality. In the case of Joel; they represent the main mass of a CME, which will strike every nation as the earth rotates. The Fifth Trumpet effects are from a meteor strike, causing volcanic activity.
Maybe you could explain why you object to my simple, Biblical and science supported scenario for the forthcoming Lords Day of fiery wrath?

because CME's happen frequently, in fact 2-3 times a day.
the book is Revelation, it's not meant to hide things it's meant to reveal them. Symbols in it are explained. What is not a symbol, should probably be taken literally, as many other prophecies have been fulfilled quite literally.
 
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eclipsenow

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because CME's happen frequently, in fact 2-3 times a day.
the book is Revelation, it's not meant to hide things it's meant to reveal them. Symbols in it are explained. What is not a symbol, should probably be taken literally, as many other prophecies have been fulfilled quite literally.
Exactly! It's symbols - otherwise we are the church of the dead 7 horned 7 eyed mutant space lamb! :oldthumbsup:

Maybe you could explain why you object to my simple, Biblical and science supported scenario for the forthcoming Lords Day of fiery wrath?
We object Keras because something like 90% of the verses you quote do not support a single thing you claim they say - you've played "Cherry-pick the bible to support my CME dogma" without ONCE learning a thing about ancient Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Ancient Cultures or Ancient Audiences and how they read this. You exemplify everything wrong with this current generation's fascination with just picking and choosing the reality they want to live in without deferring to expert opinion on climate change, evolution, pandemics, or theology.

But seriously, your Isaiah quote above still cracks me up! A severe CME but the land is prospering and thriving and the creeks are all brimming with life! Ha ha ha it's too funny.

Your obsession with a CME reminds me of Nicholas Cage in "Knowing", the 2009 movie. Hey - that would have only been out a few years by the time you became disillusioned with your 2012 obsession. Go on - tell us this wasn't part of your 'vision' that you keep going on about! :oldthumbsup: :doh: (Hollywood and the Dispensationalist Thompson Chain reference bible have done more to warp modern eschatology than anything else.)

 
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Jamdoc

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Exactly! It's symbols - otherwise we are the church of the dead 7 horned 7 eyed mutant space lamb! :oldthumbsup:
Uh, no you missed it.
REVELATION as in REVEALING things not obscuring it, if something is a symbol it is explained.
If not directly in the book itself it is a symbol that is explained elsewhere in the bible, usually the old testament.

Now mind you John was a 1st century man witnessing things from times like ours or perhaps even further in the future. He may have written down some things in colorful language to best describe what he saw but could not really explain what it was.
But if something was actually meant to be understood symbollically, it's a symbol from the old testament that is explained, or the angel showing John the visions explains what they mean.
So no it's not a literal 7 headed 10 horned beast.
Because the Angel explains what the beast is, and what the horns are. The 7 heads are seven mountains, the 10 horns are 10 world leaders (kings), the beast is an empire that controls the land of Israel. as that is a symbol from the book of Daniel.
if something in Revelation is not explained as a symbol, it doesn't use language to make it a metaphor, saying "like x" or "as x" but just saying "x", and it's not a reference back to the old testament where it was explained as a symbol.. then it can be taken literally. This was the REVELATION.
Not a Gnostic Fantasy of hidden and obscured knowledge.
 
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eclipsenow

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if something in Revelation is not explained as a symbol, it doesn't use language to make it a metaphor, saying "like x" or "as x" but just saying "x", and it's not a reference back to the old testament where it was explained as a symbol.. then it can be taken literally. This was the REVELATION.
Not a Gnostic Fantasy of hidden and obscured knowledge.
Ah, so to you if it doesn't outright explain the symbolism it's literal?
Sorry - but that's totally inappropriate.
This is a well known genre of a literary (not literal!) form known as apocalyptic literature which was common from 200BC to 200AD. Get a good commentary. Try Dr Paul Barnett's "Apocalypse now and then" on Amazon.
 
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Jamdoc

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Ah, so to you if it doesn't outright explain the symbolism it's literal?
Sorry - but that's totally inappropriate.
This is a well known genre of a literary (not literal!) form known as apocalyptic literature which was common from 200BC to 200AD. Get a good commentary. Try Dr Paul Barnett's "Apocalypse now and then" on Amazon.

Look at how many prophecies were fulfilled literally already.

I mean, look at Zechariah 11 (not that this is the only one by any means it's an example obviously)
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

Do you look at that and think "I wonder what the 30 pieces of silver represent, does it represent the world, does the potter represent the church?" No. because we know that Judas was quite literally bribed to betray Jesus with 30 pieces of silver from the temple, and when he committed suicide, those 30 pieces of silver were paid to a potter for his field.
... they were literally cast to the potter.
 
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eclipsenow

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Look at how many prophecies were fulfilled literally already.
I mean, look at Zechariah 11
Do you look at that and think "I wonder what the 30 pieces of silver represent, does it represent the world, does the potter represent the church?" No. because we know that Judas was quite literally bribed to betray Jesus with 30 pieces of silver from the temple, and when he committed suicide, those 30 pieces of silver were paid to a potter for his field.
... they were literally cast to the potter.
Yes - and so many other prophecies were fulfilled literally by Jesus that Reformed Amils say ALL the OT prophesies were fulfilled in the gospel events in eschatological tension. That is, the 'now and not yet' of our salvation. We are now seated in heaven (Ephesians) but do not yet see that in reality.

Watch the two Bible Project videos - will take about 23 minutes to watch both
Watch: Revelation | BibleProject™
 
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Jamdoc

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Yes - and so many other prophecies were fulfilled literally by Jesus that Reformed Amils say ALL the OT prophesies were fulfilled in the gospel events in eschatological tension. That is, the 'now and not yet' of our salvation. We are now seated in heaven (Ephesians) but do not yet see that in reality.

Watch the two Bible Project videos - will take about 23 minutes to watch both
Watch: Revelation | BibleProject™

problem is, Jesus said prophecies that would be about his second coming, they too can be literally fulfilled, Amillennialists don't see them as being fulfilled literally, they always see every single thing as a symbol even when literal fulfillment stares them in the face.
Many Amillennialists still believe in replacement theology believing all Prophecies about Israel mean the church now, a position that was understood during the diaspora, but now we literally have Israel again, literally born in a single day as in Isaiah 66.
... and they still believe in spiritualizing the meaning out of scripture and and seeing themselves as Israel.
 
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eclipsenow

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problem is, Jesus said prophecies that would be about his second coming, they too can be literally fulfilled,
Only THAT he will return - nothing specific about when or where or how.

Amillennialists don't see them as being fulfilled literally, they always see every single thing as a symbol even when literal fulfillment stares them in the face.
Huh? I don't think that makes any sense.

Many Amillennialists still believe in replacement theology
Not replacement so much as ALL Israel being the church, both Jew and Gentile reconciled to God through Christ.


believing all Prophecies about Israel mean the church now,
Hmmm, not quite.
Some Amils think Romans 11 is about ethnic Israel and that there will be a big conversion of Jews just before Christ returns. Kim Riddlebarger is an amil that believes there will be this and even an AC just before. But he's still Amil.

a position that was understood during the diaspora, but now we literally have Israel again, literally born in a single day as in Isaiah 66.
I don't think there are ANY specific prophecies about anything before the Lord returns - as that would be a giveaway. I mean - is he going to return like a thief in the night or not? Keras thinks he's got the AC pinned down to 2026 so that's a bit of a giveaway.

and they still believe in spiritualizing the meaning out of scripture and and seeing themselves as Israel.
Well, we don't - the bible does it. Jesus does it (stones becoming sons of Abraham), Paul does it, the Apostles to it - I mean read Hebrews and Galations and Romans for crying out loud!
And watch this
Watch: Revelation | BibleProject™
 
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Jamdoc

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Only THAT he will return - nothing specific about when or where or how.

Plenty was disclosed in the Olivet Discourse
Jesus said the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet would happen before He came back, and that it would also involve Jerusaelm surrounded by armies. He said there would be great tribulation after that and even gave specific instructions to flee if you were in Judea.
Until that happens? We don't even have a ballpark figure, we just know it's at least more than 3.5 years away. That's it
After it happens? We know we're in about a 3 year window.. but still won't know the day or hour. Just a ballpark roughly 3 year window (5th trumpet has a time period attached to it)
He also said the sun and moon would darken and that He'd appear in the sky.
Other places in the Old Testament said it'd be above Israel, probably above Jerusalem, and that He'd end up touching down on the Mount of Olives.
Yes I believe He'll literally be in the clouds in the sky. Yes I believe the sky will be darkened when it happens, no moon, no sun. Jesus will be the only thing to see in the sky.

As far as equating us with Israel goes.. we have equal VALUE to Israel, but Paul talks about there still being some things that are specifically for the blood descendants of Abraham as you said in Romans 11.
So no I don't go back to the old Testament and see all these prophecies pertaining to Israel and Jerusalem and say "hey look that's us, that's the church!" I still see those things as... being located in Israel, located in Jerusalem, and involving the genetic descendants of Abraham, because God made covenants with Abraham and with Moses. It's not honoring these covenants to say "well, Abraham, your seed got wiped out completely but hey look here, here's a bunch of gentile strangers who I've designated as your spiritual descendants, that's good enough right?" No, of course not. God is going to uphold the covenants and promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Moses, regarding their seed, and the land of Israel, will be kept, to people who are the genetic descendants of Abraham.
They will also be believers in Yeshua, however, I'm not saying they'll be possessing the land in eternity in unbelief. I agree with those who hold that Romans 11 shows that National Israel will have revival.
 
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eclipsenow

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This is a classic sermon on the "abomination that causes desolation" part of Matthew 24, and then the Son of man on the clouds. He doesn't cover every single detail, but it's a good introduction to the Sydney Anglican position on this chapter.
The readings start at 22:00 minutes in and then the talk.

Then there's a follow up talk below on the second half of Matthew 24. The parable of the days of Noah proves that we cannot know - the people were all marrying and partying like the Noah thing was a mystery. The whole point of quoting Noah is how utterly unknowable Jesus' return really is.

Matthew 2436 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Indeed, Jesus here makes the whole futurist reading of Revelation laughable. Because if ANY of the things in Revelation were to happen as interpreted by 'literal futurists' then we'd know, for sure, that there was a 7 year timetable, here we go! But this directly contradicts Jesus own words here. Jesus says life will be so normal no one will suspect a thing. They'll be making long term plans like marrying and partying all like nothing's wrong!

The thief doesn't know, the bad servant doesn't know, and the young women with their bridal welcoming lamps don't know. Indeed, the whole point of the parable of the 10 young women is that only those who plan for Jesus to delay a long time are doing the right thing!

The thing I love about Sydney Anglican Amillennialism is that it is incredibly practical and just rings absolutely true of what Jesus is saying here. We cannot know when Jesus will return. It may indeed feel long delayed. So what are we to do? Stay true to the gospel, serve God well, and remain ready throughout your life. It's practical, gospel focussed, and deeply soul-searching - not all this end-times tables guessing nonsense. Starts at 21 minutes in.
(Also, please do not text that mobile number questions as it is only for during the service.)
 
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Jamdoc

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This is a classic sermon on the "abomination that causes desolation" part of Matthew 24, and then the Son of man on the clouds. He doesn't cover every single detail, but it's a good introduction to the Sydney Anglican position on this chapter.
The readings start at 22:00 minutes in and then the talk.

Then there's a follow up talk below on the second half of Matthew 24. The parable of the days of Noah proves that we cannot know - the people were all marrying and partying like the Noah thing was a mystery. The whole point of quoting Noah is how utterly unknowable Jesus' return really is.

Matthew 2436 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Indeed, Jesus here makes the whole futurist reading of Revelation laughable. Because if ANY of the things in Revelation were to happen as interpreted by 'literal futurists' then we'd know, for sure, that there was a 7 year timetable, here we go! But this directly contradicts Jesus own words here. Jesus says life will be so normal no one will suspect a thing. They'll be making long term plans like marrying and partying all like nothing's wrong!

The thief doesn't know, the bad servant doesn't know, and the young women with their bridal welcoming lamps don't know. Indeed, the whole point of the parable of the 10 young women is that only those who plan for Jesus to delay a long time are doing the right thing!

The thing I love about Sydney Anglican Amillennialism is that it is incredibly practical and just rings absolutely true of what Jesus is saying here. We cannot know when Jesus will return. It may indeed feel long delayed. So what are we to do? Stay true to the gospel, serve God well, and remain ready throughout your life. It's practical, gospel focussed, and deeply soul-searching - not all this end-times tables guessing nonsense. Starts at 21 minutes in.
(Also, please do not text that mobile number questions as it is only for during the service.)

Day or hour, not year, and also.. understand that while the unbelieving world will be acting like everything is normal, those who understand bible prophecy will be anticipating. Jesus still gave specific signs and instructions.

Yes, the wicked world was eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage right up until the flood began, but Noah wasn't was he? Noah was waiting on the Lord and being obedient to the Lord.

Do you really think the world is going to be expecting Jesus to return while they're persecuting and martyring Christians and mocking their beliefs? Of course not.
What are they going to be doing?
Eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, all while Christians are being hunted down, imprisoned, and killed. That's the 5th seal. It's a return to normal for most of the world, after the first 4 seals establish the last beast, the 5th seal, it's just Martyrs. The rest of the world has gone back to normal. Rest of the world probably thinks the worst is over, might even be a baby boom.

Paul made this distinction in 1 Thessalonians 5.
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

It's a distinction between the world and the Church. The Church will be able to anticipate the return of Christ even if they don't know the exact day, they'll still be expecting it, and will still be watching for it.

Jesus commanded it.
Luke 21:28
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I mean this wasn't telling His believers that "hey it can happen any time, it can be tomorrow, nothing has to happen first!" No, He instructed to watch, and pray, and that we'd see the signs Jesus gave (particularly the Abomination of Desolation), we'd be able to expect that THAT was when Jesus would be coming soon.

Daniel 12:10 explains this too
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

It's not saying that the Church will be caught off guard at all. They'll understand what's happening as it's happening.
Why even give the prophecies if it's just *POOF* out of nowhere.?
 
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