12-year-old dies in hot car in Utah

wing2000 · Jul 23, 2021

fyi, it wasn't the parent.

He was in the care of that facility when he was left behind by a staff member, he added.

And here's another case, except this time it was a 90 year old man left in van by an assisted living staff member.

90-year-old man dies after being left in van outside Mesa assisted living facility | 12news.com

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 23, 2021

Boy, people sure lost interest in this thread when it became obvious it was not a distracted parent and the person responsible probably should be held liable for the child’s death.

Aryeh Jay · Jul 23, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
Boy, people sure lost interest in this thread when it became obvious it was not a distracted parent and the person responsible probably should be held liable for the child’s death.

And the first post even mentioned it was a caregiver.

There's got to be a worthy hill around here somewhere.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 23, 2021

Nithavela said:
It is not a crime, it is something that can happen to anybody and the reflexive othering of anyone who has their child die in such a manner is one of the reasons this problem persists.

Btw, It is a crime per Utah state law:

(2) Any person who inflicts upon a child serious physical injury or, having the care or custody of such child, causes or permits another to inflict serious physical injury upon a child is guilty of an offense as follows:
(a) if done intentionally or knowingly, the offense is a felony of the second degree;
(b) if done recklessly, the offense is a felony of the third degree; or
(c) if done with criminal negligence, the offense is a class A misdemeanor.

Utah Code Section 76-5-109

76-10-2202 Leaving a child unattended in a motor vehicle.
(1) As used in this section:
(a) "Child" means a person who is younger than nine years old.
(b) "Enclosed compartment" means any enclosed area of a motor vehicle, including the
passenger compartment, regardless of whether a door, window, or hatch is left open.
(c) "Motor vehicle" means an automobile, truck, truck tractor, bus, or any other self-propelled
vehicle.
(2) A person who is responsible for a child is guilty of a class C misdemeanor if:
(a) the person intentionally, recklessly, knowingly, or with criminal negligence leaves the child in an enclosed compartment of a motor vehicle;
(b) the motor vehicle is on:
(i) public property; or
(ii) private property that is open to the general public;
(c) the child is not supervised by a person who is at least nine years old; and (d) the conditions present a risk to the child of:
(i) hyperthermia; (ii) hypothermia; or (iii) dehydration.
(3) This section does not apply if the person's conduct that constitutes a violation of this section is subject to a greater penalty under another provision of state law.
(4) This section preempts enforcement of a local law or ordinance that makes it an infraction or a criminal offense to engage in the conduct that constitutes a misdemeanor under this section.
(5) Notwithstanding any provision of state law to the contrary, a conviction under this section may not be used by a state or local government entity as grounds for revoking, refusing to grant, or refusing to renew, a license or permit, including a license or permit relating to the provision of day care or child care.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter10/C76-10-S2202_1800010118000101.pdf

Doesn’t make any mention about how bad the persons feels about it afterwards.

keith99 · Jul 23, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
Boy, people sure lost interest in this thread when it became obvious it was not a distracted parent and the person responsible probably should be held liable for the child’s death.

I would not say just a single person. Since it was a facility someone besides the driver should have been expecting the kid and asked where is he?

Now if it was a super hot day and in just 15 minutes the car got hot enough to kill the child that is one thing. Over 2 hours is something different.

Perhaps even more disturbing is according to the link in the OP when emergency responders arrived the child was still in the car. Wasn't anyone smart enough to get him out of the car and into somewhere cool?

loveofourlord · Jul 23, 2021

Ummmm of course it should be a crime, a child shouldn't be left in a car unattended for any length of time, it's already a crime to do that to a DOG, and while I support that, why would it be any less for a human?

loveofourlord · Jul 23, 2021

Space Monkey said:
Most people would poll it as criminal because most people, like the parents who this has happened to, don't believe it could happen to them.

There are many crimes that just because you don't think it would happen to you or are common are still crimes. Not everyone thinks they could get so angry to kill someone, guess what it's still a crime. Causing the death of a child through neglect should be a crime,

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 23, 2021

Space Monkey said:
Most people would poll it as criminal because most people, like the parents who this has happened to, don't believe it could happen to them.

The law doesn’t make that distinction. Walking out of a store with something you didn’t pay for is still a crime even if you didn’t mean to steal it. Causing the death of another person even unintentionally is still considered a homicide. Endangering the life of a child leading to their death because you’re distracted with work, life or anything else is still child endangerment and neglect.

Even if the parent feels really bad about it and didn’t think it could ever happen to them.

Sword of the Lord · Jul 23, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
The law doesn’t make that distinction. Walking out of a store with something you didn’t pay for is still a crime even if you didn’t mean to steal it. Causing the death of another person even unintentionally is still considered a homicide. Endangering the life of a child leading to their death because you’re distracted with work, life or anything else is still child endangerment and neglect.

Even if the parent feels really bad about it and didn’t think it could happen to them.

The law also apparently doesn't see this as a crime if we're keeping track.

loveofourlord · Jul 23, 2021

Space Monkey said:
The law also apparently doesn't see this as a crime if we're keeping track.

Yet it is if it's a dog.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 23, 2021

Space Monkey said:
The law also apparently doesn't see this as a crime if we're keeping track.

I’m pretty sure this would easily fall under the law I linked in post #44, above.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 23, 2021

keith99 said:
I would not say just a single person. Since it was a facility someone besides the driver should have been expecting the kid and asked where is he?

Now if it was a super hot day and in just 15 minutes the car got hot enough to kill the child that is one thing. Over 2 hours is something different.

Perhaps even more disturbing is according to the link in the OP when emergency responders arrived the child was still in the car. Wasn't anyone smart enough to get him out of the car and into somewhere cool?

Right. It’s even worse when it’s someone specifically tasked with caring for a child. While in the facility’s care and custody they are absolutely liable if anything happens to the kid. If nothing tragic happened and I found out a kid of mine was left unattended for more than a minute in a hot car I’d want somebody fired over it. How do you forget a child in a car and like you said, how did no one else notice a kid was missing from the group?

Sodafox · Jul 23, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
I’m pretty sure this would easily fall under the law I linked in post #44, above.

The law says younger than 9 but obviously it should take into account mental ability or lack. I'd be equally angered if the situation resulted in the death of a 21 year old special needs man or woman.

Nithavela · Jul 23, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
Btw, It is a crime per Utah state law:

(2) Any person who inflicts upon a child serious physical injury or, having the care or custody of such child, causes or permits another to inflict serious physical injury upon a child is guilty of an offense as follows:
(a) if done intentionally or knowingly, the offense is a felony of the second degree;
(b) if done recklessly, the offense is a felony of the third degree; or
(c) if done with criminal negligence, the offense is a class A misdemeanor.

Utah Code Section 76-5-109

76-10-2202 Leaving a child unattended in a motor vehicle.
(1) As used in this section:
(a) "Child" means a person who is younger than nine years old.
(b) "Enclosed compartment" means any enclosed area of a motor vehicle, including the
passenger compartment, regardless of whether a door, window, or hatch is left open.
(c) "Motor vehicle" means an automobile, truck, truck tractor, bus, or any other self-propelled
vehicle.
(2) A person who is responsible for a child is guilty of a class C misdemeanor if:
(a) the person intentionally, recklessly, knowingly, or with criminal negligence leaves the child in an enclosed compartment of a motor vehicle;
(b) the motor vehicle is on:
(i) public property; or
(ii) private property that is open to the general public;
(c) the child is not supervised by a person who is at least nine years old; and (d) the conditions present a risk to the child of:
(i) hyperthermia; (ii) hypothermia; or (iii) dehydration.
(3) This section does not apply if the person's conduct that constitutes a violation of this section is subject to a greater penalty under another provision of state law.
(4) This section preempts enforcement of a local law or ordinance that makes it an infraction or a criminal offense to engage in the conduct that constitutes a misdemeanor under this section.
(5) Notwithstanding any provision of state law to the contrary, a conviction under this section may not be used by a state or local government entity as grounds for revoking, refusing to grant, or refusing to renew, a license or permit, including a license or permit relating to the provision of day care or child care.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter10/C76-10-S2202_1800010118000101.pdf

Doesn’t make any mention about how bad the persons feels about it afterwards.

It does mention that there must be at least criminal negligence, though, as I tried to explain in post #18.

Sodafox · Jul 24, 2021

Nithavela said:
It does mention that there must be at least criminal negligence, though, as I tried to explain in post #18.

What's The Difference Between Negligence and Something Criminal? | JD Supra

According to this leaving a child in a hot car is criminal negligence.

Nithavela · Jul 24, 2021

Sodafox said:
What's The Difference Between Negligence and Something Criminal? | JD Supra

According to this leaving a child in a hot car is criminal negligence.

Intentionally leaving a child in a hot car, not unintentionally forgetting a child in a hot car.

The courts will have to determine which of the two things happened in this case.

Sodafox · Jul 24, 2021

Nithavela said:
Intentionally leaving a child in a hot car, not unintentionally forgetting a child in a hot car.

The courts will have to determine which of the two things happened in this case.

I agree that this is up to the court to decide but my link doesn't specify intent. If I were on the jury intent would not matter to me. If you were also on the jury and disagreed then I suppose we'd be debating that a long time.

Nithavela · Jul 24, 2021

Sodafox said:
I agree that this is up to the court to decide but my link doesn't specify intent. If I were on the jury intent would not matter to me. If you were also on the jury and disagreed then I suppose we'd be debating that a long time.

I'm sure we would be briefed extensively on the exact definition of criminal negligence.

Sodafox · Jul 24, 2021

Nithavela said:
I'm sure we would be briefed extensively on the exact definition of criminal negligence.

Yes, and of course it would depend on what evidence is available. Ex: does the facility have video footage of the vehicles so there is no doubt of the employee responsible? If they don't then it'll be impossible to know unless the employee confesses (even then the employee may feel that it was their fault when in reality it was another). Even a driver's log wouldn't be suitable enough evidence to me to pin this on a specific individual.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 24, 2021

Nithavela said:
I'm sure we would be briefed extensively on the exact definition of criminal negligence.

Being distracted enough to put a child in that kind of danger is criminally negligent. Intentionally doing it would be a step further than that. It’s not like people are unaware of the dangers of a hot car in the summer. According to the law, just leaving the child in the car is crime on its own. Everyone knows you don’t do that so there is no excuse.

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