Purpose of the sabbath

Bob S

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You must not have read my post. I did not separate the laws, God did. God personally only wrote Ten commandments on stone. Are you saying God personally wrote all the laws on stone and all the laws are inside the ark, not just Ten. Maybe you can provide that scripture.
Are not the words that came out of God's mouth just as important as what He wrote with His finger? You may not think so, but the Israelites surely did. In the other 603 God told the Israelites not to touch the Arc. Remember what happened when someone did. God didn't just say you naughty boy I am going to give you ten lashes with a wet noodle.
 
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Bob S

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Arguments in silence are a little silly Bob but let me explain why as I do not mean this to be rude at all and not trying to be rude. I say this because I can turn the same argument back on you and say there is also nothing in the scriptures to say that Gods' people were not keeping the Sabbath either. For example I can argue Jesus in Mark 2:27 where he says that the Sabbath was made for man. So God making the Sabbath on the "seventh day" of the week and mankind being created on the 6th day of the week according to Genesis 1:26-31 it is pretty hard to claim that Adam and Eve did not keep the first Sabbath with God especially being sinless and they walked and talked with God in the Garden
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Yes, you can make that argument, but from scripture we know that the Sabbath was not instilled until the Israelites crossed the Red Sea. In Genesis all it tells us is God rested. Anything else is pure speculation. The Sabbath was made for man after the crossing of the Red Sea. That is not speculation. If the Bible is true, and I believe it is, God didn't give any people the Sabbath until it was given to Israelites. The ten commandments given at Sinai was not given to any other nation. It was made for Israel exclusively. According to Paul the ten commandments were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 2Cor 3: 6-11. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. According to Paul what was glorious? He wrote: the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious. What was one of the commands in what was glorious? Right, the Sabbath command. Paul is telling us we are not under the ten commandments as our guide, we are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit given by Jesus.

Then we have Abraham according to God who obeyed His voice, and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws - Genesis 26:5 through the spoken Word of God. There is more evidence that God's people had and obeyed Gods' law then not.
It seems Moses was doing some explanation on that subject in Deut 5:
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. So, it seems that once again you are wrong LGW. Abraham didn't have the same covenant that God gave to Israel. The ball is in your court to prove Abe did have the Sabbath command, which you cannot.

Not to mention the fact that God's people already knew about God's Sabbath before the giving of the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 in Exodus 16.
Actually you should not mention it because you are leading people who read this astray.

We can go through each of the 10 commandments though this would take too long but remember Joseph and Potifer's wife who wanted to commit adultery with him? What was Josephs response to her? Yep, How can I do this great sin against God (see Genesis 39:9). Before the written Word of God was given at Mt Sinai, God's people had the spoken Word of God.
Morality has been and will continue to be forever. We are born with the ability to choose between right and wrong. You cannot tell us that Joseph had the ritual command to observe the Sabbath given to only one group of people on this Earth. Joseph was not led out of Egypt by God as God's reason for Israel to observe the Sabbath, he was taken into Egypt by wealth seeking men.
 
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Bob S

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Hi LGW, in reading your posts you believe because those of us who do not believe we are under the law, law defined by you as being the ten commandments, that we are lawless. I would like to inform you, once and for all, that that has no truth in it. Jn 15:
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

1Jn3:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Jesus kept the laws of the old covenant. He asks us to keep His law of love which is so much greater that just the ten commands that don't even ask us to love which is the greatest command of all. It is plain that you fail to recognize the difference in the old and new covenants.

The Gospel is not the commands of the old covenant, it is Jesus' love for all mankind. It is all about His saving Grace and not what we do. It is not about works of the old covenant it is about how we treat our fellow man. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. The message we are to give to the World is Jesus did that for every soul that has ever lived. What message are you spreading?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Yes you do. You teach that God's 10 commandments are abolished. Lawlessness means without law. Your teachings are a gospel without law which is lawlessness. Am I right?

NO YOU ARE WRONG...

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

We are under the Law of the Spirit of life.

This is not lawlessness.
 
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BABerean2

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I don't know about you, but I want to be where Jesus is each and every Sabbath day, Luke 4:16 Isaiah 66:23


The Healing at the Pool on the Sabbath

Joh 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Joh 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Joh 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Joh 5:5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Joh 5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Joh 5:11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
Joh 5:13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Joh 5:15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


Are you with the Pharisees making accusations in verse 16, or are you with Jesus in verse 17?

.

.
 
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HARK!

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Why would I need to as what you are asking has nothing to do with what you are quoting from what I have said to you. Where have I ever said God will not have His appointed times in the new earth? I didn't. Time to leave the shadows of the body of Christ dear friend. Jesus has come to who those shadows point to *Colossians 2:17; Hebrews 10:1-22.

It has everything with what you said to me.

You even posted a link to the proof. Maybe you should have read verse 16 for context.



(CLV) Col 2:16
Let no one, then, be judging you in food or in drink or in the particulars of a festival, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,

You can read Leviticus 23 to get an overview of YHWH's appointments with his people.

In case you didn't realize it YHWH himself said all of his appointments stand forever. YHWH's clear message trumps any of your suppositions.

(CLV) Col 2:17
which are a shadow of those things which are impending—yet the body is the Christ's.

Shadows of things to come. That means that they haven't come yet. When Paul wrote this; Yahshua had long before ascended.

Messiah is casting this shadow to this very day. He is what stands between his people and the Almighty. It's a good thing too; or most all of us would have probably been turned to crispy critters long ago, for disobedience to his Torah.

Again, if we are not walking in the shadow of Messiah; we are moving in the wrong direction. It's time to move toward the light, dear friend.

Something to pray about.
 
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HARK!

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Do you deny there are two different sets of commandments in the verse below?

Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.


(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.
 
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HARK!

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The Healing at the Pool on the Sabbath

Joh 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Joh 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Joh 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Joh 5:5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Joh 5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Joh 5:11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
Joh 5:13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Joh 5:15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


Are you with the Pharisees making accusations in verse 16, or are you with Jesus in verse 17?

If the Father chooses to perform miracle healing through you on Shabbat; all esteem to him. I hope that you wouldn't expect payment from the person who was healed.
 
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BABerean2

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(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.


Are you trying to say the commandments given before Mount Sinai are the same as those given at Mount Sinai?

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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NO YOU ARE WRONG...
Romans 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. We are under the Law of the Spirit of life. This is not lawlessness.

Not at all Carl but let me explain why from the scriptures if it might be helpful.

According to the scriptures we are only under the law if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law according to Romans 3:19. We pass from death to life when we through faith receive God's forgiveness through confession and repentance of sin *1 John 1:9; Acts of the Apostles 2:38 and accept God's promise and the gift of Gods' dear son who paid the price for our sins with His own blood *Romans 6:23. We partake of the Spirit of life once we have passed from death (the wages of sin) to life through the blood of Christ. Being made free from sin we are born again into newness of life to walk in the Spirit. The Spirit of life is outlined in Romans 6:1-23 which is a turning away from sin to live in newness of life and to no longer serve sin but to serve God in righteousness because we have died to sin and now live to Christ.

The law of sin and death is not God's 10 commandments it is the law of the sinful human mind (heart) and nature we all have (Romans 7:14-24) and why we need to be born again into newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9; Romans 6:3. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2); "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Romans 6:5-6); "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." (Romans 6:11-12); "

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:14-16).

Being made free from sin and disobedience we have now become the servants of righteousness and obedience *Romans 6:18. This means that God's law is fulfilled in us not abolished Carl. This is also shown in the next verses you left out in Romans 8:4 [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Gods' Word does not teach a doctrine of lawlessness Carl (without law) It teaches righteousness or obedience by faith through God's Word. That is obedience to God's law through faith in Gods' Word. This is God's new covenant promise (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 3:6-9) to those who believe. Sin (breaking God's law and not believing God's word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Something to pray about.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, you can make that argument, but from scripture we know that the Sabbath was not instilled until the Israelites crossed the Red Sea.
Not really Bob I just showed you from scripture that according to Jesus that Gods' people had God's laws before Mt Sinai including the Sabbath. It is Jesus not me that says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27 and Adam and Eve (mankind) being made on the 6th day of creation and the Sabbath that God made for mankind and blessed being made on the seventh day of the creation week *Genesis 2:1-3. You have already seen that Gods' people had Gods' laws and a knowledge of what sin was before Mt Sinai see Genesis 26:5; Genesis 39:9; Genesis 4:4; Genesis 18:20; Genesis 31:36; Genesis 42:22; Exodus 10:16-17; Exodus 16 etc..). Your argument in silence does not hold and substance in truth as the scriptures teach that law and sin were known before the written Word of God by the spoken Word of God recorded in the scriptures outlined above.
In Genesis all it tells us is God rested. Anything else is pure speculation. The Sabbath was made for man after the crossing of the Red Sea. That is not speculation. If the Bible is true, and I believe it is, God didn't give any people the Sabbath until it was given to Israelites. The ten commandments given at Sinai was not given to any other nation. It was made for Israel exclusively.
Not according to the scriptures Bob but let's look at the scriptures and see what they say because we do not want to follow speculation we want to follow what Gods' Word says. Here in this post you are claiming that God's 4th commandment Sabbath was not made before the 10 commandments were given at Mt Sinai in Exodus 20:1-17 and that it was only made and given to Israel. Let's prayerfully investigate this claim through the scriptures and let Gods' Word be a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path.

According to the scriptures Jesus say that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. According to the scriptures God's Sabbath was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week and this is what God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 given at Mt Sinai that was spoken by God and written by God on two tables of stone *Exodus 20:1-17 points back to.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Referring back to GENESIS 2:1-3]

As shown above God's 4th Commandment is referring back to GENESIS 2:1-3 which says...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

So according to the scriptures and also agreeing with what Jesus says in Mark 2:27 God made the Sabbath on the "seventh day" of the creation week where he blessed and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for all mankind. Now if the scriptures teach that the Sabbath was made for all mankind then the Sabbath is made for all mankind Bob. Your argument falls does here because there was no Israel, no Moses, no law, no sin, no plan of salvation for sin given because there was no sin and law only God and man and the Sabbath that he made for mankind being at that time Adam and Eve who were created on the 6th day of the creation week *Genesis 1:26-31. We could stop here as the scriptures do not teach speculation at all and the Sabbath was made by God on the "seventh day" of the creation week according to the scriptures. This is also shown in Hebrews 4:3-4; 9. Now let's talk about who Gods' Israel is in the new covenant. Gods' Israel in the new covenant according to the scriptures are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are now born of the Spirit of the promise who believe and follow God's Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-28 and Romans 2:28-29. There is now no more Jews or gentiles as all are now one in Christ and gentile believers are now grafted in with Jewish believers (Romans 11:13-27; Ephesians 2:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13). If you are not a part of Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise. *see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Sorry Bob it seems like God's Word disagrees with you here.
According to Paul the ten commandments were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 2Cor 3: 6-11. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. According to Paul what was glorious? He wrote: the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious. What was one of the commands in what was glorious? Right, the Sabbath command. Paul is telling us we are not under the ten commandments as our guide, we are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit given by Jesus.
The problem here is not the scriptures but what it is you think these scriptures are referring to as you think that 2 Corinthians 3:7 is saying God's 10 commandments are abolished when the scriptures say no such thing. That interpretation is in contradiction to what Paul says elsewhere (eg. Romans 3:31 same Greek word used Paul is saying faith does not abolish God's law it establishes Gods' law). It is the ministration of condemnation and death that has been abolished through faith in Christ under the new covenant because of Christs sacrifice for the sins of the world, not God's 10 commandments. For example 2 Corinthians 3:1-11 is referring to the the old covenant ministration of death and the new covenant's ministration of the Spirit. The ministration of death was given by God's 10 commandments because it is through the law that we have a knowledge of what sin is and the wages of sin is death *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23. So God's 10 commandments is not death as all it does is give us the knowledge of what sin is and the wages of sin (breaking God's law) is death. This is why Paul calls God's law holy just and good in Romans 7:12. This is in contrast to the ministration of the Spirit under the new covenant through Christ in that just as we wages of sin is death and all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *Romans 3:9-20, "There is now no more condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4). So the ministration of the Spirit here does not abolish Gods' law according to Paul it establishes God's law (10 commandments) in the heart through faith according to Romans 8:4 and Romans 3:31 which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 see also Romans 13:8-10.

Sorry Bob it seems God's Word disagrees with you here.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi LGW, in reading your posts you believe because those of us who do not believe we are under the law, law defined by you as being the ten commandments, that we are lawless. I would like to inform you, once and for all, that that has no truth in it. Jn 15:
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

1Jn3:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Jesus kept the laws of the old covenant. He asks us to keep His law of love which is so much greater that just the ten commands that don't even ask us to love which is the greatest command of all. It is plain that you fail to recognize the difference in the old and new covenants.

The Gospel is not the commands of the old covenant, it is Jesus' love for all mankind. It is all about His saving Grace and not what we do. It is not about works of the old covenant it is about how we treat our fellow man. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. The message we are to give to the World is Jesus did that for every soul that has ever lived. What message are you spreading?

Thanks for your post here Bob. I love the scriptures and have no problem with them. It is your interpretation of these scriptures that you teach abolishes Gods' law that is the problem and that love is separate from obedience to God's law that is not biblical but let's show why I say this from the scriptures....According to the scriptures love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law but let's look at what the scriptures say.

Firstly let's look at the context of 1 John that you started quoting above and the reason for the epistle is given in 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. So the reason John was writing these letters was that we sin not. According to the scriptures sin is the breaking of anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 or knowingly not believing and following what God's Word says *Romans 14:23; James 4:17. John goes on to say in 1 John 2:3-4 and hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Then in 1 John 3:4-7 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. So we are told how we know God is by what we do. If we know God we do not practice sin (defined as breaking God's law and not believing his Word). John continues, in 1 John 8-10 He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother. So the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin. That is the children of the devil practice known unrepentant sin while the children of God do not practice sin. They are obedient to Gods' law that is they do not practice breaking God's law and commit known unrepentant sin and are obedient to obeying God's commandments (see also Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14).

John links obedience to God's law to love at the end of 1 John 3:10 where he says , In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother because love is expressed in obedience to God's law not by breaking God's law. In 1 John 3:11-24 John compared hate with murder and breaking God's commandments with love and obedience to Gods' commandments. This is the new covenant teaching of Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and why we need to be born again to love in order to keep God's law from the heart. This is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law. For example if I love my fellow man I will not lie to them, steal from them, or murder them the same as if I love God I will not have other Gods, make idols and worship them, take God's name in vain and break His "seventh day" Sabbath. Paul is also agreeing with Jesus here where he says in Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Love fulfills Gods' law and is obedient to God's law Bob it does not break God's law.

Something to pray about.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It has everything with what you said to me.

You even posted a link to the proof. Maybe you should have read verse 16 for context.



(CLV) Col 2:16
Let no one, then, be judging you in food or in drink or in the particulars of a festival, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,

You can read Leviticus 23 to get an overview of YHWH's appointments with his people.

In case you didn't realize it YHWH himself said all of his appointments stand forever. YHWH's clear message trumps any of your suppositions.

(CLV) Col 2:17
which are a shadow of those things which are impending—yet the body is the Christ's.

Shadows of things to come. That means that they haven't come yet. When Paul wrote this; Yahshua had long before ascended.

Messiah is casting this shadow to this very day. He is what stands between his people and the Almighty. It's a good thing too; or most all of us would have probably been turned to crispy critters long ago, for disobedience to his Torah.

Again, if we are not walking in the shadow of Messiah; we are moving in the wrong direction. It's time to move toward the light, dear friend.

Something to pray about.

According to the scriptures God's 4th commandment which is the "seventh day" weekly Sabbath is a memorial of creation *Exodus 20:8 this means it points backwards to the finished work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 not forward to things to come *Colossians 2:17. It is not the same as the annual sabbaths in the Feast days that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. There was no law, no sin, no plan of salvation given to mankind when God made the "seventh day" Sabbath of creation as a memorial of the finished work of creation. Your mixing up the annual sabbaths in the feast days that are shadows of things to come with Gods' 4th commandment which points backwards to the God of creation not forward to things to come. Time to leave the shadows dear friend Jesus has arrived and God's plan of salvation is revealed and continued by God in the new covenant now not the old. There was no "shadow laws" made when the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. Time to leave the shadows dear friend.
 
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BABerean2

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Time to leave the shadows dear friend.


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)


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Carl Emerson

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Not at all Carl but let me explain why from the scriptures if it might be helpful.

According to the scriptures we are only under the law if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law according to Romans 3:19. We pass from death to life when we through faith receive God's forgiveness through confession and repentance of sin *1 John 1:9; Acts of the Apostles 2:38 and accept God's promise and the gift of Gods' dear son who paid the price for our sins with His own blood *Romans 6:23. We partake of the Spirit of life once we have passed from death (the wages of sin) to life through the blood of Christ. Being made free from sin we are born again into newness of life to walk in the Spirit. The Spirit of life is outlined in Romans 6:1-23 which is a turning away from sin to live in newness of life and to no longer serve sin but to serve God in righteousness because we have died to sin and now live to Christ.

The law of sin and death is not God's 10 commandments it is the law of the sinful human mind (heart) and nature we all have (Romans 7:14-24) and why we need to be born again into newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9; Romans 6:3. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2); "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Romans 6:5-6); "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." (Romans 6:11-12); "

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:14-16).

Being made free from sin and disobedience we have now become the servants of righteousness and obedience *Romans 6:18. This means that God's law is fulfilled in us not abolished Carl. This is also shown in the next verses you left out in Romans 8:4 [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Gods' Word does not teach a doctrine of lawlessness Carl (without law) It teaches righteousness or obedience by faith in God's Word. That is obedience to God's law through faith in Gods' Word. This is God's new covenant promise (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 3:6-9) to those who believe. Sin (breaking God's law and not believing God's word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Something to pray about.


We are under the Law of the Spirit of life.

This is NOT lawlessness.

Something to pray about...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:....

You keep posting the same thing over and over without responding to anyone, posts. Why do you think the above references from the Roman Catholic Church supports your view? According to Jesus and the Apostles in God's Word we are told that there will come in among us false teachers to deceive if possible Gods' very elect *Matthew 7:15; Matthew 10:16; Matthew 24:24; Acts of the Apostles 20:29 this was taking place even in the days of the Apostles *2 Peter 2:1-5 and Paul further warning us in Acts of the Apostles 20:28-29.

So to seek sources outside of Gods' Word to support or justify breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is building your house on sifting sand in my view. Yes I think they are indeed wrong and those who teach against God's Word are not my fathers and the bible is indeed correct and is our only standard of truth and error. Let's be honest now. Show me a single scripture from the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day or rest? - There is none.

According to the scriptures Gods' people met every day of the week in Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. That does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest now does it? Jesus and all the Apostles who are our example kept Gods' 4th commandment according to the scriptures. Historically, God has always had a people that have always kept His 4th commandment unbroken all through time to this very present day from the early Church in the East and elsewhere who continue to keep God's 4th commandment according to the scriptures to this present day.

What have you provided in order to justify breaking God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments? The early fathers from the Roman Catholic Church as sources outside of the bible that disagree with scripture? So your asking us to believe the writings of men over the writings of God? According to Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. Do you believe these words of Jesus? Something to pray about. Who should we believe God or man?

It seems your understanding of the old and new covenants are in error but let me explain why if it might be helpful to you. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. It is your understanding of what the old covenant was and what the new covenant is that is the problem here. According to the scriptures the old covenant included both God's 10 commandments as the standard of good and evil (sin and righteousness) and the Mosiac book of the covenant *see Exodus 24:7 for remission of sins which collectively made up the old covenant.

The old covenant was a system that included a standard for good and evil (God's 10 commandments) and what the new covenant calls now calls "shadow laws" (Hebrews 10:1-8) for forgiveness of sins from the Mosiac book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 that included all the laws for remission of sins, the Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary and sin offerings in animal sacrifices that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for mankind under the new covenant. It is this old system that is done away and fulfilled and continued in the new covenant pointing to Jesus and His work and ministration on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man (Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22).

You mix up the "shadow laws" from the Mosiac book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) with God's eternal laws that the new covenant scriptures tell us give us the knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11. So as shown in the scriptures here it is your understanding of what you think the old covenant is and what the new covenant is that is the problem. If you do not understand therefore what the old covenant was how then can you understand what the new covenant is that the old covenant points to in Christ? You may want to consider that your teachings that Gods 10 commandments are abolished contradict the new testament scripture as everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living (scripture support here and here linked).

Sin is knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments. *James 2:10-11; James 4:17 and not believing and following Gods' Word (Romans 14:23). The dietary laws can be found in Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14 (see also Leviticus 3:17; 7:22-24; 17: 10-12, 14; 19:26; Deuteronomy 12:16, 23. 12; Exodus. 22:31; Deuteronomy 12:15, 21; 14:21; Lev. 19:19,23; 22:26-28. God gave us the dietary laws to give us healthful living and the scriptures teach us that we should look after ourselves. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 [16], Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [17], If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. The Greek word defile means to pollute. We can pollute our bodies by what we feed it. This is now a well known scientific fact. So here we have a dilemma do we believe what God says or do we believe what the world says? There is two way we can be defiled. That is by not being born again with a new heart according to God's promise and not believing and following Gods' Word.

I say this with all love and respect. As shown through the scriptures all through this thread your teaching is a teaching of lawlessness which is not the teaching of the bible or Gods' Word or the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that you might hear God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear it becomes our judge come judgment day according to John 12:47-48.
 
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HISTORY OF THE SABBATH IN THE EARLY CHURCH AFTER THE DEATH OF JESUS

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The First Century A.D.

INSTITUTION OF THE SABBATH
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Genesis 2:1-3 )

JESUS
"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read." (Luke 4:16)

JESUS
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:16,17)

JESUS
"But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day." (Matthew 24, 20).
NOTE: Jesus asked his disciples to pray that in the flight from the doomed city of Jerusalem they would not have to flee on the Sabbath day. This flight took place in 70 A.D. 40 years after the Jesus' crucfixion and we see here that Jesus fully expected His church to be observing His true seventh day Sabbath that He Himself proclaimed to be the Lord of.

JESUS' FOLLOWERS
"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:56.) Did these women make a mistake and keep the wrong sabbath or was it that Christ NEVER EVER hinted that there would be a change forthcoming???

PAUL
"And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) Did Christ fail to inform Paul on the road to Damascus that there's now a new sabbath? Or rather does the silence of Christ speak volumes against the papal sabbath???

PAUL AND THE GENTILES
"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. And the next Sabbath came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God." Acts 13:42, 44.

Here we find Gentiles in a Gentile city gathering on the Sabbath. It was not a synagogue meeting in verse 44, for it says almost the whole city came together, verse 42 says they asked to hear the message the "next Sabbath."

And get this: The Bible does not say it is the "old Jewish Sabbath that was passed away," but the Spirit of God, writing the Book of Acts some 30 years after the crucifixion, calls it "the next Sabbath."

JOHN
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day." Rev.1:10 (Matthew 12:6; Mark 2:28, Isa.58:13, Ex.20:10, Clearly show the Sabbath to be the Lord's day).
The term "Lord's day" in reference to sunday came later. The Biblical meaning for Lord's day is the day that God calls "My holy day" and the day that Jesus said He is Lord of.

JOSEPHUS
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

PHILO
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries," Vol. 4, 99

So we have incontrovertible proof that the observance of sunday was NOT practiced by the apostolic church of the first century. Although the poison of apostasy had already begun, it did not reach the ascendancy until the passage of a few more centuries.

The next installment will show the historical record of the early christians observing the true seventh day Sabbath in the second century A.D.

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Second Century A.D.

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

EARLY CHRISTIANS - 2nd Century
"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord's day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour's death." "A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath," p. 77

Note: By the "Lord's day" here the writer means Sunday and not the true Sabbath," which the Bible says is the Sabbath. This quotation shows Sunday coming into use in the early centuries soon after the death of the Apostles. It illustrates the apostasy that Paul the Apostle foretold of when he spoke about a great "falling away" from the Truth that would take place soon after his death.

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Third Century A.D.

EGYPT (OXYRHYNCHUS PAPYRUS) (200-250 A.D.)
"Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath," Greek), ye shall not see the Father." "The oxyrhynchus Papyri," pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).
EARLY CHRISTIANS-C 3rd
"Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

AFRICA (ALEXANDRIA) ORIGEN
"After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)." "Homily on Numbers 23," par.4, in Migne, "Patrologia Graeca," Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.

PALESTINE TO INDIA (CHURCH OF THE EAST)
As early as A.D. 225 there existed large bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, "Early Spread of Christianity." Vol.10, p. 460.

INDIA (BUDDHIST CONTROVERSY), 220 A.D.)
The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, "The Creed of Half Japan," p. 23.

EARLY CHRISTIANS
"The seventh-day Sabbath was...solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it." "Dissertation on the Lord's Day," pp. 33, 34

Sabbath Observance Through The Centuries - The Fourth Century A.D.


ITALY AND EAST-C 4th
"It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west...For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);...it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." "History of the Sabbath" (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.
ORIENT AND MOST OF WORLD
"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

ABYSSINIA
"In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

ARABIA, PERSIA, INDIA, CHINA
"Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China." "Truth Triumphanat,"p.308 (Footnote 27).

ITALY-MILAN
"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'" Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath" (1612)

SPAIN-COUNCIL ELVIRA (A.D.305)
Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spain at that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

SPAIN
It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spain near the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originaly inhabited. By a people called both "Valldenses" and Sabbatati."

PERSIA-A.D. 335-375 (40 YEARS PERSECUTION UNDER SHAPUR II)
The popular complaint against the Christians-"They despise our sungod, they have divine services on Saturday, they desecrate the sacred the earth by burying their dead in it." Truth Triumphant," p.170.

PERSIA-A.D.335-375
"They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O'Leary, "The Syriac Church and Fathers," pp.83, 84.

COUNCIL LAODICEA-A.D.365
"Canon 16-On Saturday the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud." "Canon 29-Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day." Hefele's "Councils," Vol. 2, b. 6.

.........................

Now I the above are only Historical references for the first 4 centuries after the death of Jesus. If your interested I can continue with historical references from the 5th Century to this present day. Just let me know.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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We are under the Law of the Spirit of life.

This is NOT lawlessness.

Something to pray about...

No one is under the Spirit of the law by breaking God's law (see 1 John 3:3-10). Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to the scriptures (see also Revelation 12:17: Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14). No one can claim to know God according to the scriptures by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:6 as 1 John 2:3-4 also says And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So we cannot claim to be following the Spirit of life by being disobedient to God's Word. As posted earlier if your trying to teach God's 10 commandments have been abolished when their role in the new covenant scriptures is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) as shown already in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and Psalms 119:172 then that is a teaching of lawlessness (without law). Without law (lawlessness) we have no knowledge of what sin and righteousness is, if we have no knowledge of what sin is we do not know that we are sinners. If we do not know we are sinners we have no need of salvation (see Matthew 9:12-13) if we have no need of Salvation we have no need of a Saviour (the great physician) if we have no need of salvation and a savior we are lost in our sins. The purpose of God's law according to the scriptures is to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith and made free to walk in God's Spirit *Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 3:22-25; Galatians 5:16 in obedience to God's law not to continue breaking God's law. If we continue in known unrepentant sin according to Hebrews 10:26-31 we will be in danger of the judgment.
 
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BABerean2

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You keep posting the same thing over and over without responding to anyone, posts. Why do you think the above references from the Roman Catholic Church supports your view?

It is because there was no Roman Catholic Church before the Council of Nicaea during 325 AD.

All of these Early Church Fathers lived before the time of Constantine. Look it up.

What was their viewpoint of the Sabbath, before the Roman Catholic Church existed?

First Council of Nicaea | Description, History, Significance, & Facts | Britannica

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