Biden's got this right.

OldWiseGuy

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At his town hall meeting last evening he stated that drug users shouldn't be imprisoned, instead they should be hospitalized for treatment. Agree/disagree?

Actually few are imprisoned as many states are allowing small amounts of drugs possessed for 'personal use'.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Do they not get treatment in jail? I guess my concern is that, if decriminalized, drug use most often leads to other crimes.

I think they are 'treated' to a continuing supply of drugs that find their way into prisons.

Users often commit crimes in order to fund their drug habit, some quite serious. They also debase themselves through prostitution to pay for their drugs.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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At his town hall meeting last evening he stated that drug users shouldn't be imprisoned, instead they should be hospitalized for treatment. Agree/disagree?

Actually few are imprisoned as many states are allowing small amounts of drugs possessed for 'personal use'.

I believe you need some prison as a stick part of the carrot and the stick approach. One factor that is left out in talks when it comes to social programs as far as things like poverty, hunger, malnutrition, parental neglect is the role of addiction in it. Basically liberals that want big government, want more money thrown at the problem thinking that more money will "end poverty" etc. when the real bottle neck is not the fact that parents and households don't have money. But rather that parents of these households spend their money, trade their food stamps, food debit cards etc. for drugs, alcohol, prostitutes, gambling etc. And such people likely have been in some kind of treatment plan before but dropped out, or stopped attending after the minimum amount of time of the court specified was served etc. So when that happens you need to up the ante and make prison time required. Otherwise these people will happily keep the status quo, unless they have some kind of near death "Come to Jesus" moment. But simply hoping for that sort of thing, in lieu of prison time is kind of like playing a game of Russian Roulette with their lives and the lives of their family.


That was a big topic of the former Fox star Bill O'reilly before his fall from Fox News. He had studied drug treatment programs of various states over the years in the 90s, maybe even as far back as the 80s. Only the states that had a coercive component to add some extra incentive to the rehabilitation were affective.
 
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Dave L

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At his town hall meeting last evening he stated that drug users shouldn't be imprisoned, instead they should be hospitalized for treatment. Agree/disagree?

Actually few are imprisoned as many states are allowing small amounts of drugs possessed for 'personal use'.
They don't want treatment. They want to exploit addicts to get rich.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I believe you need some prison as a stick part of the carrot and the stick approach. One factor that is left out in talks when it comes to social programs as far as things like poverty, hunger, malnutrition, parental neglect is the role of addiction in it. Basically liberals that want big government, want more money thrown at the problem thinking that more money will "end poverty" etc. when the real bottle neck is not the fact that parents and households don't have money. But rather that parents of these households spend their money, trade their food stamps, food debit cards etc. for drugs, alcohol, prostitutes, gambling etc. And such people likely have been in some kind of treatment plan before but dropped out, or stopped attending after the minimum amount of time of the court specified was served etc. So when that happens you need to up the ante and make prison time required. Otherwise these people will happily keep the status quo, unless they have some kind of near death "Come to Jesus" moment. But simply hoping for that sort of thing, in lieu of prison time is kind of like playing a game of Russian Roulette with their lives and the lives of their family.


That was a big topic of the former Fox star Bill O'reilly before his fall from Fox News. He had studied drug treatment programs of various states over the years in the 90s, maybe even as far back as the 80s. Only the states that had a coercive component to add some extra incentive to the rehabilitation were affective.

Actually the coercive component that Biden mentioned was involuntary hospitalization, which to an addict would be the same as prison. I agree with this approach as well (and have often suggested it). The beneficial effects of such a program cannot be overstated, as mandatory hospitalization, which is actually sequestration, serves not only to at least temporarily get the addict off of drugs, but greatly affects the flow of drug money, which is another dangerous and corrupting aspect of the drug problem. The key to bringing down the entire drug business is removing the money, and this can only be done by removing the addicts and users. Sadly decriminalizing small amount of drugs for personal use is effectively legalizing the entire drug trade, and is the most cynical thing law enforcement could possibly do at this time.
 
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rturner76

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I do not think selling somebody something they want to buy should be a crime if the thing is not stolen.

I think there should be another level of "prison" for nonviolent drug offenders to go to locked treatment centers that is more of a hospital setting where prison guards are more like security-trained orderlies. In the inpatient treatment centers, you earn freedom based on progression in the program. You relapse, you lose privileges

I haven't worked out my 97 point criminal justice rehaul plan yet but soon.

Drug court is a step in the right direction. nonhabitual offenders tend to get more treatment and probation/caseworker/social services.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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Here in the UK it takes an average of 7 times through rehab to get addicts clean. I expect its the same there. Often prison can be an effective way of providing treatment in a controlled environment. Also the deterant of doing time gives them something to think about when considering crime to fund their habits.

I've done volunteer work with the homeless and drug addictss for over 20 years, rehab is only so efective a getting them clean. I've known a number of people who deliberately got themselves sent to prison as it can be more effective having a longer sentence to beat their addictions. I've also known others who got clean and became Christians in prison. The work the groups I volunteered with did a lot to open them to Christianity and was instrumental in many accepting Christ in prison. We also had a few delivered from their addiction on the spot when they were prayed for. If only that worked for every addict.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Here in the UK it takes an average of 7 times through rehab to get addicts clean. I expect its the same there. Often prison can be an effective way of providing treatment in a controlled environment. Also the deterant of doing time gives them something to think about when considering crime to fund their habits.

I've done volunteer work with the homeless and drug addictss for over 20 years, rehab is only so efective a getting them clean. I've known a number of people who deliberately got themselves sent to prison as it can be more effective having a longer sentence to beat their addictions. I've also known others who got clean and became Christians in prison. The work the groups I volunteered with did a lot to open them to Christianity and was instrumental in many accepting Christ in prison. We also had a few delivered from their addiction on the spot when they were prayed for. If only that worked for every addict.

I think there's way too much emphasis on treating the addicts of drugs. The security of the nation is a greater issue. The present crime wave can be laid at the feet of addicts as well as dealers and cartels. There is a saying in business, "Nothing happens until something is sold". It's the same with the drug business.

Addicts likely know but don't care what is happening to not only America, but other countries in our hemisphere resulting from their drug use. Imo it is much more important to cut off the flow of drug money than to treat addicts. Money is the lifeblood of the drug trade, money that comes only from addicts and users.
 
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Norbert L

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At his town hall meeting last evening he stated that drug users shouldn't be imprisoned, instead they should be hospitalized for treatment. Agree/disagree?

Actually few are imprisoned as many states are allowing small amounts of drugs possessed for 'personal use'.
Does he mean like alcohol? There's drunk and disorderly and then there are functioning drunks. I've met functioning drug users too, so the same laws should apply for both.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Does he mean like alcohol? There's drunk and disorderly and then there are functioning drunks. I've met functioning drug users too, so the same laws should apply for both.

Of course hard-care alcoholics should be treated in the same way. However the legal mechanisms aren't available to easily do this.

Also, alcohol is a legal substance that is not causing the same problems that illegal drugs are, as I suggested in previous posts. Detaining hard-core addicts involuntarily would weaken the most important link in the drug trade. These addicts are the 'bread and butter' of the drug business. Casual and 'weekend' users are much less important to the cartels and gangs that produce and distribute the drugs as they represent only a small fraction of the money flow.

What is astounding is that while addicts are easy to identify and detain law enforcement has chosen to go after the dealers, who are not only harder to apprehend but if arrested are quickly replaced by other dealers. Addicts are not so easily replaced once apprehended. Lock up one such addict for a year and $30,000 to $60,000 is lost to the drug trade, plus the additional benefit of lowing the associated crime rate and costs thereof.
 
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