Does God care about which denomination or church you belong to?

BobRyan

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Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me...?

Or what is it that you are trying to ask or say...?

God Bless!

I fully agree with "Follow Christ" and that "Christ IS the Way AND the Truth".

I am simply exploring what that entails when we look at what the Bible says - is the example He set for us.

In Mark 7:6-13 His example appears to be one of paying even more attention to the details in scripture than were the Pharisees as they unwittingly made stuff up, traditions - that were in conflict with scripture.
 
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BobRyan

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Do you think that correct doctrine beyond the basics, or beyond the gospel, saves...?

I think Christ addressed that in his teaching quoted in the post below where He said it is different for each person depending on what the person knows.

And as I note below - only Peter gets the rebuke "get thee behind me Satan" even though Peter expressed an understanding of Christ far above what many of the Jews knew at the time and even though none of Peter's contemporaries expected the Messiah to be executed as a criminal.

In Matt 16 Jesus asks the disciples who men say He is - vs who they think He is - and Peter gives the right answer. Then Christ tells Peter that HE - the Messiah is about to be crucified - and Peter balks at that. Jesus then says to Peter "get thee behind Me Satan". He only speaks that way to Peter - because Peter had much more direct knowledge of Christ and His teaching.

Now it is interesting that even the other followers of Christ (in fact even John the baptizer at one point) did not get the detail that the Messiah would be crucified but Jesus does not refer to them as "Satan".

Luke 12:48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

John 9:41 "if you were blind you would have no sin, but you say you see - so your sin remains"

James 4:17 17 So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin.

So it is not a simple matter of "one line for all people"
 
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BobRyan

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Because I think correct doctrine beyond the basics, if you do manage to get it right, is just icing on the cake in the end, but is not worth it if you forsake the basics or don't fully live up to being as much as a living example that God has required of you also along the way in the process, etc...

Because if you have forsaken that, then you have forsaken much, etc...

God Bless!

So in this next example it is pointed out that none of the saint killed in the 1260 years of dark ages that we see in Rev 12 -- following the bodily ascension of Christ - were killed because they claimed Jesus is their savior. The Annabaptist example is instructive on that point.

Not according to Christ in Matt 7 "Lord Lord did we not.... in your name?" Then Jesus says "not everyone who says Lord Lord ... will enter". The fail of "I don't think Christ is savior any more" certainly would be a mistake - but Matt 7 does not put any blame at all on the "words being said".

In cases where multiple popes raised their own papal armies and the armies fought each other - neither army would claim they did not know Christ was the Savior of mankind. Still they were dying for a cause ...

It is almost never the claim "because Christ is not the Savior" or "Christ is not Messiah" in those cases.

Annabaptists were killed -- but not because "They thought Chris was not the savior"

"By 1566, roughly 3,000 Anabaptists were killed because of their faith. Some Anabaptists fled from the Netherlands to England to escape persecution, but even here they risked coming to the same fate as in Europe. Two Anabaptists were burned at the stake in 1575 in London."

The Anabaptists.

History does not confirm the suggestion that the only life-death deception/errors leading one group exterminating another - and another group dying for their convictions within Christianity - was "Christ is not the savior"

Yet scripture points to an even greater power and deception with "signs and wonders" at the end of time.

IN Mark 7:6-13 Jesus does not say their doctrinal error was lack of belief in he Messiah - in the sola-scriptura argument that he makes there.

as noted here in post #17



It is interesting in Mark 7 that Jesus did not say "false doctrine about the Messiah" though they certainly had that problem "as well".

Yet Rev 12:10 speaks of those saints with this statement of approval - "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. "
 
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Neogaia777

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So in this next example it is pointed out that none of the saint killed in the 1260 years of dark ages that we see in Rev 12 -- following the bodily ascension of Christ - were killed because they claimed Jesus is their savior. The Annabaptist example is instructive on that point.



Yet Rev 12:10 speaks of those saints with this statement of approval - "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. "
Yeah, I still don't know if your agreeing or disagreeing with me...?

But and/or anyway though...

Have a good day!

God Bless!
 
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BobRyan

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I think correct doctrine beyond the basics, if you do manage to get it right, is just icing on the cake in the end, but is not worth it if you forsake the basics or don't fully live up to being as much as a living example that God has required of you

If one is not saved it does not matter how much of the Truth of God's Word they accepted before that while choosing to ignore God's leading currently.

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

The discussion is not over "how much truth can a lost person know about - and still be lost"?

The question is about "saving truth" and the Matt 16 example Peter makes "the next truth" - saving truth, not the truth that you accepted in your past - but rather to what line, to what new boundary as the Spirit of Christ brought you today - and will you say to Him "No Lord I refuse to go with you any further"?

"LOVE of the Truth" that is mentioned in 2Thess 2 is not of the form "I learned some of the truth 10 years ago and have not asked for any more since". Like "Love of chocolate ice cream" is not expressed in the one who says "no thanks I had chocolate ice cream ten years ago - and that is enough for me".
 
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Neogaia777

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I think Christ addressed that in his teaching quoted in the post below where He said it is different for each person depending on what the person knows.

Does that only apply to what one thinks they know, or only what they truly know...?

And there are different kinds of knowledge as well, etc...?

(google it, there are a lot, etc)...

One could be very strong in one area or another, but very much less so, or very much more weaker in others, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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If one is not saved it does not matter how much of the Truth of God's Word they accepted before that while choosing to ignore God's leading currently.

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

The discussion is not over "how much truth can a lost person know about - and still be lost"?

The question is about "saving truth" and the Matt 16 example Peter makes "the next truth" - saving truth, not the truth that you accepted in your past - but rather to what line, to what new boundary as the Spirit of Christ brought you today - and will you say to Him "No Lord I refuse to go with you any further"?

"LOVE of the Truth" that is mentioned in 2Thess 2 is not of the form "I learned some of the truth 10 years ago and have not asked for any more since". Like "Love of chocolate ice cream" is not expressed in the one who says "no thanks I had chocolate ice cream ten years ago - and that is enough for me".
One only needs to know the gospel (saving truth) and increase in living it to be truly saved, etc, all else is icing on the cake only if you do not forsake that, etc...

God Bless!
 
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BobRyan

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1. In Gal 6:7 we read "God is not mocked" - there is no "gaming" God. He knows the heart and whether there is "Love of Truth" as Christ had or if it is simply complacency.
2. God is the one that says the accountability of the person is according to what the person knows -- Luke 12:48
3. Following Christ is the command we are given in 1 John 2 - He is our example of what it means to have a genuine Love of the Truth - Jesus shows how that works out in real life Mark 7:6-13 where he slam-hammers man-made-tradition and "commandments of men" --- sola scriptura
4. God is the one saying in 2 Thess 2 - that "He turns them over to strong delusion" regarding those who "perish because they did not receive a LOVE of the Truth"
5. In both Matt 24, and 2 Thess 2, and Rev 13 - we see massive signs and wonders, taking the whole world into deception "so that if possible it would deceive the very elect" (Matt 24)
6. We have millions of examples of the saints in the dark ages giving up their lives "for the Truth" for having a "Love of the Truth" and they "did not love their lives even unto death" Rev 12:11
7. Even Peter who is approved for standing at the head of the class in Matt 16 is called "Satan" by Christ saying "get thee behind Me satan!" when Peter "stops" moving forward and rejects "the next truth" Christ brings to him .

The Christian walk is in the “full armor of God” Eph 6 (which is all about the Word of God and the Truth) – It is a “running battle” and the Holy Spirit is continually guiding and giving instructions to the Body of Christ – no instruction contradicts the Word of God. Each day a new challenge – each day a choice to follow God’s leading “or not”. Christ said “Take up your cross daily and follow Me” Luke 9:23.
 
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zoidar

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And yet you do see that over the course of history many people held firm to their faith on those topics to the point of giving up their very lives.

Rev 12:10 “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

You see Rev 12 as a historic event. I'm not sure about that. I haven't studied Rev that closely for the reason it's very hard to understand and that there are so many different interpretations around.
 
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RJ Howard

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Does God care about which denomination or church you belong to?

My thoughts on this is that God wants you belong to a church where its members take God seriously, live for Him. I don't think it matters that much whether you belong to a Catholic church, Orthodox church, Angelican church, Reformed church, Lutheran church, Pentacostal church or any other Protestant church.

What I think God is serious about is our heart, that it's of less importance our theological views. Even children or maybe I should say especially children that don't have that strong formulated theological views, but really have a heart for God truly belong to the kingdom of God, and that is what God is looking for in all of us.

What do you think?

But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
— Matthew 19:14
This is why I personally choose to be non denominational. That's what the earliest Christians were.
 
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Albion

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Not identifying with any particular denomination ( e.g. Lutheran, Baptist, etc.)
OKay. I find that people use the term in a number of different ways.

Some belong to unaffiliated churches while others are probably like yourself in remaining independent. The "thing" with that stance is that it almost always means no participation in the various doings of any congregation although the Bible advises them to participate. The "earliest Christians" certainly were not like that.
 
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Albion

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I did participate in a church congregation for a few months until discovering it was a cult ( anyone hear of the International Church of Christ/ICOC)?
Yes, we're familiar with that church. The name sometimes fools inquirers because it's so similar to the Churches of Christ which are found throughout the nation.

If the ICOC resulted in dissuading you from being involved with any and all churches, though, I'd call that tragic. Maybe if you study online the various denominations that are represented in your vicinity before making another effort, you could find a good church home. There are likely to be many, even taking account of your own preferences in size or ceremony or etc happen to be.
 
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Irkle Berserkle

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Does God care about which denomination or church you belong to?

My thoughts on this is that God wants you belong to a church where its members take God seriously, live for Him. I don't think it matters that much whether you belong to a Catholic church, Orthodox church, Angelican church, Reformed church, Lutheran church, Pentacostal church or any other Protestant church.

What I think God is serious about is our heart, that it's of less importance our theological views. Even children or maybe I should say especially children that don't have that strong formulated theological views, but really have a heart for God truly belong to the kingdom of God, and that is what God is looking for in all of us.

What do you think?

But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
— Matthew 19:14
I believe there are bottom-line Christian essentials, belief in which defines a Christian. I believe they can be phrased more broadly and generally than almost any church's creed or statement of faith. There are, however, some churches whose doctrines contravene one or more of the essentials.

I'd say that God cares about more than just having a good heart. It sounds to me as though you are assuming a belief in the bare-minimum Christian essentials. If so, then I'd agree that having a good heart is more important than belonging to any particular denomination or believing any non-essential doctrine.
 
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Torah Keeper

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Does God care about which denomination or church you belong to?

My thoughts on this is that God wants you belong to a church where its members take God seriously, live for Him. I don't think it matters that much whether you belong to a Catholic church, Orthodox church, Angelican church, Reformed church, Lutheran church, Pentacostal church or any other Protestant church.

What I think God is serious about is our heart, that it's of less importance our theological views. Even children or maybe I should say especially children that don't have that strong formulated theological views, but really have a heart for God truly belong to the kingdom of God, and that is what God is looking for in all of us.

What do you think?

But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
— Matthew 19:14

Certainly God cares. Christianity is like a sheet of broken glass. Some pieces are closer to God, some farther. Stay close to God.
 
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