Does God care about which denomination or church you belong to?

zoidar · Jul 21, 2021

coffee4u said:
I think God would be concerned about incorrect doctrine because those attending it keep it going and people are being led astray particular those new to the faith. If you are sitting in a church and consistently hear incorrect doctrine believers should leave. "Come out from her my people" comes to mind.

Revelation 18:4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

If when Kenneth Copland preached about everyone being little gods the majority of his congratulation got up and left do you think he would still have a ministry? By remaining it enables the preaching of another gospel.
2 Timothy 2:17

17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

There are numerous Bible verses on what to do if you feel you are listening to a wolf.

1 Timothy 5:19–20
19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear

Should We Call Out False Teachers or Ignore Them?

If the doctrines of the church are that extreme they can do harm to Christians. So of course not everything goes. I was more thinking of the common things that splits us into churches and denominations. I got saved when I was 31 (42 now). Since then I have attended a lot of different churches, Catholics, Pentacostals, Lutherans, Seventh day Adventists... Even there are differences in doctrines, I have felt the things we have in common outweights what we do not. There are churches I do avoid, since I feel they teach or practice things that are bad for my spiritual health.

Fervent · Jul 21, 2021

zoidar said:
Could it possibly be so that God leads us to a church where we belong, where he has a purpose for us? I would say so. Some might be lead to the traditional churches, others to the more charismatic, some towards the Catholic church, others to the protestant churches etc.

God certainly leads us where He desires us to be. For one reason or another God has planted me in a Southern Baptist church, and though there are certainly areas where my theology rubs with the official doctrine of the denomination every time I try to seek something more "suited" theologically God draws me back to this local church and it is clear that there is mutual benefit being drawn.

RDKirk · Jul 21, 2021

zoidar said:
If the doctrines of the church are that extreme they can do harm to Christians. So of course not everything goes. I was more thinking of the common things that splits us into churches and denominations. I got saved when I was 31 (42 now). Since then I have attended a lot of different churches, Catholics, Pentacostals, Lutherans, Seventh day Adventists... Even there are differences in doctrines, I have felt the things we have in common outweights what we do not. There are churches I do avoid, since I feel they teach or practice things that are bad for my spiritual health.

As I've said before, saving gospel is really quite slim. For me, it's well contained by the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds (either one will do). I would have trouble with a denomination whose doctrine did not assent to all the elements of either of those creeds.

BobRyan · Jul 21, 2021

zoidar said:
I have felt the things we have in common outweights what we do not. .

We have every reason in the world to have a kind Christian spirit toward one another, to hate sin, and error - and to have a "Love of the truth" instead of complacency as Paul reminds us in 2 Thess 2.

2 Thess 2:
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Matt 24:
20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

So God presents it as a "knife edge" difference between saved and lost where if possible Satan "deceives the very elect" -- and people perish because they did not receive a love of the truth so as to be saved.

Lot's of people saying to themselves "peace and safety" -- when in fact ALL the virgins in the Matt 25 story are "asleep" - and only 5 have the oil needed for the sudden event.

==============================

There is an alternative though... just "ignore all those scriptures and anything like them" we can tell ourselves a nice story about how it is none of our concern to pay attention to such warnings in the Bible ... and all will be well.

"peace and safety - then sudden destruction"

Matt 24:
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

1 Thess 5:
. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction will come upon them like labor pains upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness, so that the day would overtake you like a thief;

coffee4u · Jul 21, 2021

zoidar said:
If the doctrines of the church are that extreme they can do harm to Christians. So of course not everything goes. I was more thinking of the common things that splits us into churches and denominations. I got saved when I was 31 (42 now). Since then I have attended a lot of different churches, Catholics, Pentacostals, Lutherans, Seventh day Adventists... Even there are differences in doctrines, I have felt the things we have in common outweights what we do not. There are churches I do avoid, since I feel they teach or practice things that are bad for my spiritual health.

Well in that case it is probably more about preaching that speaks to you, fellowship, style, somewhere that you feel you fit. There are Christians in every denomination.

ziamal · Jul 21, 2021

I don't think so because that would exclude a lot of God loving people, God isn't so unreasonable to send you to hell if you get a few things wrong

zoidar · Jul 22, 2021

BobRyan said:
We have every reason in the world to have a kind Christian spirit toward one another, to hate sin, and error - and to have a "Love of the truth" instead of complacency as Paul reminds us in 2 Thess 2.

2 Thess 2:
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Matt 24:
20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

So God presents it as a "knife edge" difference between saved and lost where if possible Satan "deceives the very elect" -- and people perish because they did not receive a love of the truth so as to be saved.

Lot's of people saying to themselves "peace and safety" -- when in fact ALL the virgins in the Matt 25 story are "asleep" - and only 5 have the oil needed for the sudden event.

==============================

There is an alternative though... just "ignore all those scriptures and anything like them" we can tell ourselves a nice story about how it is none of our concern to pay attention to such warnings in the Bible ... and all will be well.

"peace and safety - then sudden destruction"

Matt 24:
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

1 Thess 5:
. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction will come upon them like labor pains upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness, so that the day would overtake you like a thief;

I think those warnings have less to do with Christian doctrines and more to do with people denying Christ as saviour. Christ is the truth.

zoidar · Jul 22, 2021

RDKirk said:
As I've said before, saving gospel is really quite slim. For me, it's well contained by the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds (either one will do). I would have trouble with a denomination whose doctrine did not assent to all the elements of either of those creeds.

Sometimes the statements of belief of a church are quite dim. It's good to know they accept the creeds. The saving gospel is repent and believe, so slim in one sense but not doctrinally slim, from my view.

RDKirk · Jul 22, 2021

zoidar said:
Sometimes the statements of belief of a church are quite dim. It's good to know they accept the creeds. The saving gospel is repent and believe, so slim in one sense but not doctrinally slim, from my view.

Compared to denominational doctrines, the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds are still very slim.

The creeds do not, for instance, dictate the primary day of worship or any other special days. They do not dictate any order of creation. They do not dictate the mechanism of soteriology. They do not dictate the internal relationships of the Trinity. They do not dictate offerings or giving. They do not dictate modes of baptism. They do not dictate diet or clothing. They do not dictate liturgies. And so forth, with all the things that denominations accumulate above and beyond the essentials of those creeds.

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2021

zoidar said:
I think those warnings have less to do with Christian doctrines and more to do with people denying Christ as saviour. Christ is the truth.

Not according to Christ in Matt 7 "Lord Lord did we not.... in your name?" Then Jesus says "not everyone who says Lord Lord ... will enter". The fail of "I don't think Christ is savior any more" certainly would be a mistake - but Matt 7 does not put any blame at all on the "words being said".

In cases where multiple popes raised their own papal armies and the armies fought each other - neither army would claim they did not know Christ was the Savior of mankind. Still they were dying for a cause ...

It is almost never the claim "because Christ is not the Savior" or "Christ is not Messiah" in those cases.

Annabaptists were killed -- but not because "They thought Chris was not the savior"

"By 1566, roughly 3,000 Anabaptists were killed because of their faith. Some Anabaptists fled from the Netherlands to England to escape persecution, but even here they risked coming to the same fate as in Europe. Two Anabaptists were burned at the stake in 1575 in London."

The Anabaptists.

History does not confirm the suggestion that the only life-death deception/errors leading one group exterminating another - and another group dying for their convictions within Christianity - was "Christ is not the savior"

Yet scripture points to an even greater power and deception with "signs and wonders" at the end of time.

IN Mark 7:6-13 Jesus does not say their doctrinal error was lack of belief in he Messiah - in the sola-scriptura argument that he makes there.

as noted here in post #17

BobRyan said:
False doctrine matters to God.

Mark 7:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradiGation which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Gal 5:. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel, 7 which is not just another account; but there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

It is interesting in Mark 7 that Jesus did not say "false doctrine about the Messiah" though they certainly had that problem "as well".

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2021

RDKirk said:
Compared to denominational doctrines, the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds are still very slim.

The creeds do not, for instance, dictate the primary day of worship or any other special days. They do not dictate any order of creation. They do not dictate the mechanism of soteriology. They do not dictate the internal relationships of the Trinity. They do not dictate offerings or giving. They do not dictate modes of baptism. They do not dictate diet or clothing. They do not dictate liturgies. And so forth, with all the things that denominations accumulate above and beyond the essentials of those creeds.

True - but the Word of God speaks directly to all of those subjects.

RDKirk · Jul 22, 2021

BobRyan said:
True - but the Word of God speaks directly to all of those subjects.

It does not, however, place them as salvational necessities of the gospel. And, indeed, it's because scripture does not make them irrefutable by multiple clear scriptural witnesses that denominations debate them.

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2021

zoidar said:
I think those warnings have less to do with Christian doctrines and more to do with people denying Christ as saviour. Christ is the truth.

No doubt "Christ IS the Truth" - John 14 "The Way the Truth and the Life" -- so then all doctrinal differences regarding "what is truth" relate back to Christ.

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2021

zoidar said:
Would I die for the doctrine of baptism, whether infant or believers, or for whether God is present or not in the bread and wine, I would not. .

And yet you do see that over the course of history many people held firm to their faith on those topics to the point of giving up their very lives.

Rev 12:10 “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2021

RDKirk said:
It does not, however, place them as salvational necessities of the gospel. And, indeed, it's because scripture does not make them irrefutable by multiple clear scriptural witnesses that denominations debate them.

In Matt 16 Jesus asks the disciples who men say He is - vs who they think He is - and Peter gives the right answer. Then Christ tells Peter that HE - the Messiah is about to be crucified - and Peter balks at that. Jesus then says to Peter "get thee behind Me Satan". He only speaks that way to Peter - because Peter had much more direct knowledge of Christ and His teaching.

Now it is interesting that even the other followers of Christ (in fact even John the baptizer at one point) did not get the detail that the Messiah would be crucified but Jesus does not refer to them as "Satan".

Luke 12:48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

John 9:41 "if you were blind you would have no sin, but you say you see - so your sin remains"

James 4:17 17 So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin.

So it is not a simple matter of "one line for all people"

Neogaia777 · Jul 22, 2021

I don't know that doctrine beyond the basics matters as much as truly living up to being the living example of Christ as far as God has personally called you to it all throughout your life at each stage and age of your life until the day you die, etc...

If anything, in the end, I think that is what we will all be judged on and/or by, etc...

God Bless!

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
I don't know that doctrine beyond the basics matters as much as truly living up to being the living example of Christ as far as God has personally called you to it

2 Thess 2 says people die at the end because they did not receive a "love of the Truth" and Jesus "IS the Way the Truth and the Life" John 14.

So in following Christ as our example (as we see in 1 John 2) - the question comes up - was Jesus an example of "Loving the Truth" or of being a minimalist about it in Mark 7:6-13??

====================

False doctrine matters to God.

Mark 7:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradiGation which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Gal 5:. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel, 7 which is not just another account; but there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed![/QUOTE]

Neogaia777 · Jul 22, 2021

BobRyan said:
2 Thess 2 says people die at the end because they did not receive a "love of the Truth" and Jesus "IS the Way the Truth and the Life" John 14.

So in following Christ as our example (as we see in 1 John 2) - the question comes up - was Jesus an example of "Loving the Truth" or of being a minimalist about it in Mark 7:6-13??

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me...?

Or what is it that you are trying to ask or say...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jul 22, 2021

BobRyan said:
2 Thess 2 says people die at the end because they did not receive a "love of the Truth" and Jesus "IS the Way the Truth and the Life" John 14.

So in following Christ as our example (as we see in 1 John 2) - the question comes up - was Jesus an example of "Loving the Truth" or of being a minimalist about it in Mark 7:6-13??

Do you think that correct doctrine beyond the basics, or beyond the gospel, saves...?

Neogaia777 · Jul 22, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
Do you think that correct doctrine beyond the basics, or beyond the gospel, saves...?

Because I think correct doctrine beyond the basics, if you do manage to get it right, is just icing on the cake in the end, but is not worth it if you forsake the basics or don't fully live up to being as much as a living example that God has required of you also along the way in the process, etc...

Because if you have forsaken that, then you have forsaken much, etc...

God Bless!

Does God care about which denomination or church you belong to?

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Junior Member

Junior Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Old Soul

Junior Member

Old Soul

Old Soul

Old Soul

Similar threads