Purpose of the sabbath

BobRyan said:

And He is the one telling us that the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his reader's is what is written on "heart and mind" under the New Covenant.

So then we do not need to make up whatever feels ok as our "New Covenant" but rather the Holy Spirit tells us what that New Covenant is outright.

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Instead of "I will delete my own Commandments regarding not taking My name in vain".

Paul says the TEN include the command to "honor your father and mother" as "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 -- and still apply.
In that statement he is appealing directly to its written form.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the COMMANDMENTs of God"

This is no war between the Holy Spirit and the Word of God - - as it turns out.

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Bob, I think the point that is being missed is expressed here...

Romans 8
8 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The Law was weak through the flesh.

We are now to walk according to the Spirit.

In so doing we fulfill the Law.

Are you OK with that so far ???

Carl Emerson said:

Bob, I think the point that is being missed is expressed here...

Romans 8
8 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The Law was weak through the flesh.
We are now to walk according to the Spirit.

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In that chapter we are told that the lost person "does not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" - and by contrast in that same chapter the saints walk in obedience to God's Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Which is why Paul writes "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" in 1 Cor 7:19 then reminds us of "the very written form" of it in Eph 6:1-2 that "Honor your father and mother is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" - and so that unit of TEN - even in its written form - still applies to Christians according to Paul.

There is no war going on between the Holy Spirit and the written Word that HE produced.

So yes - I am fine with the fact that the lost do not submit to God's Law - and also can not. And I am fine with born-again saints obeying God's Word by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit as we see in Romans 8.

Rom 8:
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


Gal 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Rom 3: 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

1 John 5:2-3 "This IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the commandments of God - AND their faith in Jesus"

Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness

1 John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous

Rom 2:13-16
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

As soon as someone posts a thread where scripture calls for the saints to walk in obedience to the Word of God -- an objecting post comes up reminding everyone that the unsaved person does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit that would empower obedience to the Word of God.

But that second post should be posted in affirmation not objection since both statements are true.

BobRyan said:

So yes - I am fine with the fact that the lost do not submit to God's Law - and also can not. And I am fine with born-again saints obeying God's Word by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit as we see in Romans 8.

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OK this is a key issue.

You said...

"I am fine with born-again saints obeying God's Word by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit..."

Do you agree that the indwelling of the author of the Law gives us better understanding of what is righteous than the Law ever could?

BABerean2 said:

Fulfilled, instead of "abolished".
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

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Nothing wrong with the scripture. Think about it because your twisting them again as you did Colossians 2:16-17.

MATTHEW 5:17 THINK NOT THAT I HAVE COME TO DESTROY (ABOLISH) THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS> I HAVE NOT COME TO DESTROY (ABOLISH) THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS BUT TO FULFULL

Note: Jesus it not telling us that the law and the prophets have been destroyed or abolished he is telling us he came to fulfill them. That is he came to obey them and that the law and the "shadow laws" and the prophets all pointed to him

MATTHEW 5:18 FOR TRULY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, ONE JOT OR TITTLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW TILL ALL BE FULFILLED

Note: Has Heaven and earth passed away? - Nope. Has the second coming taken place and Jesus returned? - Nope. Has all been fulfilled? -Nope. Has God's law been abolished? - Nope.

WHERE IS GOD'S LAW TO BE FULFILLED?

ROMANS 8:4 THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

ROMANS 3:31 DO WE MAKE VOID (Abolish) THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID WE ESTABLISH THE LAW

Note: Jesus did not come to abolish the law. God's law is to be fulfilled in us and established in us through faith.

Let's get clearer so there is no where to hide....

HOW DO WE FULFILL GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], OWE NO MAN ANYTHING, BUT TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER: FOR HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; AND IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, IT IS BRIEFLY SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], LOVE WORKS NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOR: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Note: Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' 10 commandments not by breaking them. "Till all be fulfilled" means that Gods' law is to be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16).

...............

Jesus is not saying God's law is to be abolished but to be fulfilled in us. Jesus goes on the make the point clearer by amplifying the law in fulfillment of Isaiah 42 in Matthew 5:20 to 32. This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8.

God knows us that without him we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born again of God to love *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's law from the inside out.

Whosoever is born of God to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not knowingly practice sin *1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news of the gospels in the new covenant we have a saviour to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.

1 John 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are born again to love and it is love that fulfills God's law in all those who believe and follow God's word in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. this results in a people that keep God's law (10 commandments) from the inside out. *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 13:8-10; romans 3:31; Hebrews 8:10-12. Unless we are born again to love we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7.

………….

So what the conclusion of the matter?

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.

God’s law (10 commandments) are not abolished they are fulfilled and established in the life of a believer as they believe God’s Word and abide in Christ and walk in God’s Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4.

Hope this is helpful.

BNR32FAN said:

This is your opinion not the actual commandment that was given. I believe we have been given freedom in Christ and that we are not under the letter of the law but instead we are under the purpose for which the law was given. If we were under the letter of the law then Jesus would’ve had to stone the adulterous woman to death according to God’s commandment on adultery but instead He gave her mercy which was another commandment of God.

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There is no where in the scriptures that teach that we have been given freedom in Christ to break Gods' law. That would be sin and the wages of sin in death to all those who count the blood of the covenant and unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace. According to the scriptures for those who continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *Hebrews 10:26-31.

BNR32FAN said:

I believe the Sabbath law was changed as well since the apostles confirmed every single one of the 10 commandments except for the Sabbath.

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You must have a different bible to the one I read or you simply have missed or are ignoring scripture. I do not know which one. All of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament (Covenant) as the standard of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) * see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. You may want to get yourself a new bible. (see scriptures showing all of Gods' 10 commandments repeated in the new covenant including God's 4th commandment Sabbath here linked). "Therefore (as Paul says in the Aramaic) in remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath." - Hebrews 4:9.

Carl Emerson said:

OK this is a key issue.

You said...

"I am fine with born-again saints obeying God's Word by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit..."

Do you agree that the indwelling of the author of the Law gives us better understanding of what is righteous than the Law ever could?

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I don't agree that there is any conflict at all between the Holy Spirit and what He produces - which is scripture.

But I do agree that reading scripture without the Holy Spirit has very limited use

Still - in Mark 7:6-13 Christ demonstrates the method of slam-hammering man-made-tradition via sola-scriptura debate method that is irrefutable - but does not force the unconverted mind to agree to it - rather the onlookers, the spectators had great benefit from that method - while the leaders among the Jews remained with closed heart and mind.

Still Christ endorses that method.

BobRyan said:

I don't agree that there is any conflict at all between the Holy Spirit and what He produces - which is scripture.

But I do agree that reading scripture without the Holy Spirit has very limited use

Still - in Mark 7:6-13 Christ demonstrates the method of slam-hammering man-made-tradition via sola-scriptura debate method that is irrefutable - but does not force the unconverted mind to agree to it - rather the onlookers, the spectators had great benefit from that method - while the leaders among the Jews remained with closed heart and mind.

Still Christ endorses that method.

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Yes we agree on both these points but this is not what I asked...

I will try again...

Do you agree that the indwelling of the author of the Law gives us better understanding of what is righteous than the written Law ever could?

Bear in mind that the indwelling anointing recorded in Isaiah 11 includes the Spirit of Wisdom.

Therefore faced with complicated life choices His living word within us can highlight the righteous and wise way forward.

Hi BNR32FAN, I added my full post for context with supporting scripture because for some reason you like to micro-quote me out of context without addressing all of my post. Some people have the some problem with the scriptures. I wrote earlier....

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Carl no one is set free from the law so that they are now free to break Gods' law (10 commandments). That is simply not biblical and you have no scripture that supports such a view. We are set free from the law of sin and death *Romans 8:1-2. That is the power of sin that makes us a slave to disobedience *Romans 6:1-23 and condemnation of the law which we receive through breaking the law and its penalty which is death *Romans 8:1-4; Romans 6:23. We are set free from the condemnation of breaking the law and its penalty through the forgiveness received by faith in the blood of God's dear son who died on the cross paying the price for our sins so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life *John 3:16. You are terribly mistaken in your view of the scriptures here sadly if you believe we are now free from obedience to God's law which all those who are born again express their love to both God and their fellow man (see Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; John 14:15: John 15:10; 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 3:6-9; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4). Those who continue in known unrepentant sin according to Hebrews 10:26-31 count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace and for them there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come.
Something to pray about.

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Your response here....

BNR32FAN said:

Here we go with the double standard again.

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Let's talk detail (scripture please) and not make stuff up. What is it you are referring to that I am making double standards in what was posted above in the quote of mine (now that context is added back) you are quoting from that is from the scriptures which are Gods' Word not my words?

BNR32FAN said:

The law consisted of 613 commandments not 10 and don’t say that the 10 commandments were set apart because you don’t teach that we must only keep the 10 commandments you also teach that we must observe the dietary laws as well which were not part of the 10 commandments. As I’ve pointed out several times your picking and choosing which commandments of God you want to keep and disregarding the rest.

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We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. It is your understanding of what the old covenant was and what the new covenant is that is the problem here. According to the scriptures the old covenant included both God's 10 commandments as the standard of good and evil (sin and righteousness) and the Mosiac book of the covenant *see Exodus 24:7 for remission of sins which collectively made up the old covenant.

The old covenant was a system that included a standard for good and evil (God's 10 commandments) and what the new covenant calls now calls "shadow laws" (Hebrews 10:1-8) for forgiveness of sins from the Mosiac book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 that included all the laws for remission of sins, the Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary and sin offerings in animal sacrifices that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for mankind under the new covenant. It is this old system that is done away and fulfilled and continued in the new covenant pointing to Jesus and His work and ministration on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man (Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22).

You mix up the "shadow laws" from the Mosiac book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) with God's eternal laws that the new covenant scriptures tell us give us the knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11. So as shown in the scriptures here it is your understanding of what you think the old covenant is and what the new covenant is that is the problem. If you do not understand therefore what the old covenant was how then can you understand what the new covenant is that the old covenant points to in Christ? You may want to consider that your teachings that Gods 10 commandments are abolished contradict the new testament scripture as everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living (scripture support here and here linked).

Sin is knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments. *James 2:10-11; James 4:17 and not believing and following Gods' Word (Romans 14:23). The dietary laws can be found in Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14 (see also Leviticus 3:17; 7:22-24; 17: 10-12, 14; 19:26; Deuteronomy 12:16, 23. 12; Exodus. 22:31; Deuteronomy 12:15, 21; 14:21; Lev. 19:19,23; 22:26-28. God gave us the dietary laws to give us healthful living and the scriptures teach us that we should look after ourselves. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 [16], Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [17], If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. The Greek word defile means to pollute. We can pollute our bodies by what we feed it. This is now a well known scientific fact. So here we have a dilemma do we believe what God says or do we believe what the world says? There is two way we can be defiled. That is by not being born again with a new heart according to God's promise and not believing and following Gods' Word.

I say this with all love and respect. As shown through the scriptures all through this thread your teaching is a teaching of lawlessness which is not the teaching of the bible or Gods' Word or the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that you might hear God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear it becomes our judge come judgment day according to John 12:47-48.

BNR32FAN said:

“For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10-13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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Thank you. You have just proven my point. James is talking about the 10 commandments here. If we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. This of course includes Gods' 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 which is also one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

Something to pray about.

Carl Emerson said:

Do you agree that the indwelling of the author of the Law gives us better understanding of what is righteous than the written Law ever could?

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yes but do you realize you are contrasting the saved condition with the unsaved and asking if the saved person has a better understanding of what God's Word says than an unsaved person.

The Holy Spirit always directs the saved person to "more focus" on His written word. Paul goes out of his way to do it in Eph 6:1-2 instead of saying "Hey - I an Apostle, writing scripture here, I am inspired by the Holy Spirit - I tell you by the Authority of inspiration to honor your parents". INSTEAD he appeals directly to scripture in fact the "written form" of the TEN when he points out that the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise"

BNR32FAN said:

So you keep all 613 commandments then?

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Goodness do you make animal sacrifices and seek out a Levite Priest who owns an earthly Sanctuary every time you sin (all a part of the 613 laws of the old covenant)? If not why not. You confuse Gods' eternal laws that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 with the Mosaic "shadow laws" for remission of sin of the old covenant fulfilled in the body of Christ and the work of Jesus and His new ministration as our Great high Priest who now ministers on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary on our behalf based on better promises (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22). We are in the new covenant now not the old.

BABerean2 said:

Since you did not answer the question, the verse below may be helpful. Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

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Brother, the passage speaks of Jesus assuming the repetitive redemption of earlier transgressions with animal sacrifices. Jesus not needing to die again makes the process a lot faster. If you continue to transgress after receiving Jesus' forgiveness, Jesus repeatedly grants forgiveness without needing to die again to repeatedly forgive you. The cross is only one necessary step in how Jesus deals with sin, and the cross is not all that needed is in the temple service with Jesus as our High Priest. You need to repeatedly "confess" your sins for Jesus to repeatedly "advocate" for you until all sin removed is from your character. In simple language, It is like a small child learning to walk, as long as he can repeatedly get up, he will eventually walk.


For an example that this repetitive process worked even in the Old Testament with the slower animal sacrifices, listen to Paul boast of his righteousness based on the law before Jesus made this repetition even faster than animal sacrifices.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus.

BNR32FAN said:

No that’s incorrect the law of Moses was built on God’s commandments. God gave a heck of a lot more than 10 commandments. Homosexual is not forbidden in the 10 commandments, witchcraft, oracles, and necromancy are not forbidden in the 10 commandments. These were just as much commandments of God as the 10 were.

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All of those things are forbidden in God's 10 commandments. Witchcraft is Idolatry 1 Samuel 15:23; Thou shalt not commit adultery is unlawful union which covers homosexuality, necromancy is seeking out the dead instead of seeking out God which is breaking the first two commandments of having other Gods and idolatry. It is true however that the Mosiac book of the law was built around God's law that he spoke and wrote on two tables of stone as the standard of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing) that gives us the knowledge of Good and evil in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to James as you posted earlier if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. This of course according to the new covenant scriptures includes God's 4th commandment that is one of God's 10 commandments.

LoveGodsWord said:

There is no where in the scriptures that teach that we have been given freedom in Christ to break Gods' law. That would be sin and the sages of sin in death to all those who count the blood of the covenant and unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace. According to the scriptures for those who continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *Hebrews 10:26-31.

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“Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:1-17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18-26‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

BNR32FAN said:

No their disobedience was their unbelief. That’s what Paul clearly said and why I highlighted it in bold letters.

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No. According to the scriptures unbelief is sin because it leads to disobedience to what Gods Word says (Romans 14:23) just the same as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments is sin according to James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 state that God's people did not enter into God's Sabbath rest according because of their unbelief and disobedience to His Word.

BobRyan said:

yes but do you realize you are contrasting the saved condition with the unsaved and asking if the saved person has a better understanding of what God's Word says than an unsaved person.

The Holy Spirit always directs the saved person to "more focus" on His written word. Paul goes out of his way to do it in Eph 6:1-2 instead of saying "Hey - I an Apostle, writing scripture here, I am inspired by the Holy Spirit - I tell you by the Authority of inspiration to honor your parents". INSTEAD he appeals directly to scripture in fact the "written form" of the TEN when he points out that the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise"

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I am rather contrasting the Saved Old Covenant believer with the Saved New Covenant believer.

The Old Covenant believer with the Written Law and no indwelling presence had less insight than the New Covenant believer with the indwelling presence including the Spirit of Wisdom.

LoveGodsWord said:

You must have a different bible to the one I read or you simply have missed or are ignoring scripture. I do not know which one. All of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament (Covenant) as the standard of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) * see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. You may want to get yourself a new bible. (see scriptures showing all of Gods' 10 commandments repeated in the new covenant including God's 4th commandment Sabbath here linked). "Therefore (as Paul says in the Aramaic) in remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath." - Hebrews 4:9.

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Not one of those statements say to keep the Sabbath.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ There is no where in the scriptures that teach that we have been given freedom in Christ to break Gods' law. That would be sin and the wages of sin in death to all those who count the blood of the covenant and unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace. According to the scriptures for those who continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *Hebrews 10:26-31.

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Your response here...

BNR32FAN said:

“Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:1-17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18-26‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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I love the scriptures but what have they got to do with the post and the sciprtures you are responding to? - Nothing.

guevaraj said:

You need to repeatedly "confess" your sins for Jesus to repeatedly "advocate" for you until all sin removed is from your character. In simple language, It is like a small child learning to walk, as long as he can repeatedly get up, he will eventually walk.

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Were you ever a Roman Catholic?

What happens if I forget to confess one of my sins?

What percentage of my salvation is based upon my proper confessions? ______________ %


I was dead, but now I have been passed from death to life.

Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

How many confessions do I have to make before I can walk?

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