I’m pregnant, going through divorce, and have been through trauma

LoricaLady

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Respect from the wife towards her husband is a big thing in Africa in general, but also in the Bible (see e.g. 1 Peter 3:6). So when you have an issue with him or even are angry with him, talk to him privately, and don't correct or humiliate your husband in front of others (not saying you did that, it's just a good general rule). But physically hitting a wife is not a good thing I'd say (interestingly the Quran literally just advises that to Muslim husbands if their wives are not behaving correctly).

In Matthew 5:27-28 Jesus expands on one of the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:17: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's'. Jesus is basically saying: already looking with (sexual) desire to someone else's wife already is coveting and the seed for adultery; which was punishable by death.

Israel always had been a polygamous society (see 14. On the Morality of Biblical Polygyny | Bible.org), similar to Africa, so Jesus referred to the situation where looking with desire to an already married women is the precursor to adultery, and thus already is sin. When a man looks at a single woman and finds her attractive, that would never be adultery in the definition of the Law of Moses, regardless of his previous marriage status.
What Bible verse is there that says what you were saying Moses said?

I quoted Job in a post above. One other translation for that is that he said he made a covenant that he would not look lustfully upon a virgin. Virgins were generally young women.

You seem to maybe be conflating seeing that a woman is attractive with lusting after her. They are not the same thing of course.
 
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AK1982

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but the people there are pushing me to forgive him and saying that I should have stayed with him through it all

Well, they understand forgiveness totally wrong then. Forgiveness doesn't mean you stay with him no matter what, excuse him, believe his next promise and take it lying down.

Forgiveness and choosing to live with him are two different things.
 
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Neogaia777

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A single pregnant woman who is an immigrant, or maybe even a US citizen in the US, and has just left and abusive relationship, etc, has it much better in the US than she ever would anywhere else, it is good you are back here, if you look, you should be able to find some kind of help somewhere, etc...

I don't know of all the programs that are setup that could help, but know they are out there, maybe some others might be able to suggest a few things maybe, etc...?

God Bless!
 
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YanaMarkova

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Yana, you have done the RIGHT THING! I'm very thankful you had the backbone to leave him! No wife should ever stay with a man who abuses her!

Yana, do you have family here in the US?

I'm so glad you left that Church where they were encouraging you to go back to him. That is the WORST ADVICE! I cannot understand how people can do that! I have 3 daughters and I would be so worried about you if you were my daughter, pregnant and living in that situation. I'm just so thankful you left him!
Thank you. Yes, I have my mom here. She’s been helping me as much as she can.
 
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YanaMarkova

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Well, they understand forgiveness totally wrong then. Forgiveness doesn't mean you stay with him no matter what, excuse him, believe his next promise and take it lying down.

Forgiveness and choosing to live with him are two different things.
I agree. I have been trying to find the strength to forgive, but it’s been very hard to do.
 
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The Narrow Way

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Thank you. Yes, I have my mom here. She’s been helping me as much as she can.
That is great! I'm sure she's excited about becoming a Grandma!
 
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Reluctant Theologian

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The definition comes from Messiah. He said what he meant and meant what he said. Lusting after a woman is adultery.
We can always turn to him to be freed from the temptations that beset humanity.

Job said that he made a covenant with his eyes so that he would not lust after a woman who was not his wife. Anyone can make a covenant with the Lord, through prayer and maybe fasting, to not lust.

The meaning of what Jesus (or anyone) says is completely dependent on the context - claiming that a literal reading always equals its meaning does not work fully. First of all one has to define the term 'adultery' within the context of Mosaic Law (see 14. On the Morality of Biblical Polygyny | Bible.org for an excellent treatise on that). Then it's good to realise the Greek does not have a specific word for 'lust', the word used here is 'strong desire' (epithumesai, strong nr 1937). That same word is used elsewhere in the NT for completely neutral or even very positive situations where 'desire' occurs. And or course Jesus also didn't mean that looking at your own woman with strong desire would be adultery. So ergo: be careful with a literal interpretation: context is everything.

In the sermon on the mount Jesus is showing keeping the Law starts with our attitude and heart. It is our sinful attitude and heart that may lead us into actual sinful behaviour. Jewish religious thinking was and still is usually focused on what we do rather than what we think. But Jesus says sin may begin with just 'that look'. But still, the context of Jewish Society back then always allowed polygamy - if that were not the case; God wouldn't have put in place explicit rules on how to deal with those situations.

Your reference to Job is an interesting one: if you look at the Hebrew there you will see the word 'lust' or 'desire' is completely missing; luckily the well-known ESV translation does a good job:

Job 31:1
I have made a covenant with my eyes; how then could I gaze at a virgin?​

Job knew it wouldn't be righteous to just 'jump' on any virgin passing by; so how he looks at her determines how he will be able to avoid sin afterwards.

But was Job allowed to marry that virgin as well? Of course; there is nothing in Mosaic Law that prohibited him from doing that. (see the referenced article from Rev. William Luck for an extensive description of that).
 
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LoricaLady

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Do you think you can lust over a woman who is not your wife and be fine with the Lord? Rhetorical question. Your choice whatever. Messiah’s opinion in the end.

Your comments about polygamy do not seem pertinent. Polygamy is illegal in this culture.
 
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Reluctant Theologian

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@LoricaLady: I think 'undressing' any woman that is not my wife would be unwise; but 'undressing' a woman that is married especially amounts to the adultery precursor Jesus refers to.

Having said that; just noticing the beauty of a woman in passing by; without (sexual) desire is a natural thing for a man and not sinful - we just should not let our vision 'dwell' on it.

What culture are you referring to? (your profile does not list a location/country) Living with multiple women that a man may have 'married' from a Biblical perspective, but without Government recognition is perfectly legal in Australia, and in many other countries. In the UK about 40% of all Muslim marriages is unregistered.

In any Western country these days; wouldn't it be peculiar that sleeping around with women uncommittedly would be legal, while living with, and caring for women in a Biblical commited fashion would be illegal?

Btw, I feel a bit uncomfortable for hijacking YanaMarkova's prayer request. I appreciate your reaction and input - I realise my position may be somewhat uncommon for Christians (but also not unique); yet in no way do I intend to offend anyone. I have a lot of cross-cultural experience, so combined with my passion for God sometimes my studies may lead me to unexpected and unchartered waters.

YanaMarkova's husband is/was Nigerian and Christian; so that naturally brings this topic in view in regards to her situation. The African Christian context is very different from our Western one, but in at least this area closer to the Biblical context. Let's hope and pray she will be supported well and be able to thank God for the new life she has received and enjoy motherhood.
 
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What Bible verse is there that says what you were saying Moses said?

I quoted Job in a post above. One other translation for that is that he said he made a covenant that he would not look lustfully upon a virgin. Virgins were generally young women.

You seem to maybe be conflating seeing that a woman is attractive with lusting after her. They are not the same thing of course.

Agree to that!

Do you refer to this bit: "When a man looks at a single woman and finds her attractive, that would never be adultery in the definition of the Law of Moses, regardless of his previous marriage status." ?

Assuming that is the case I would make the following observations:
- in Mosaic Law, adultery happens ONLY when a betrothed or married women has sex with a man not her husband: Leviticus 18:20, Leviticus 20:10 - and of course Exodus 20:14+17. (coveting a married woman is sin, but not coveting or desiring to marry a still single woman; and by extension so is 'looking' at a single woman and finding her attractive not a sin; regardless the marital status of a man).

Several Mosaic laws regulate or even command polygamy:
- Levirate marriage (Deuteronomy 25:5-10): a man had to marry the widow of his brother if she was childless before; whether he was already married himself was irrelevant for the Law; he just would taken the widow has his 2nd or 3rd wife. Observe how the text tells us it would be a disgrace/bad if the man would refuse to marry her.
- Exodus 21:10: if a man takes another wife, he should not reduce food, shelter and sex for the previous one (this implies polygamy, and sets the rules for fairness: if you can't afford that 2nd wife, don't marry her)
- Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man has two wives, the one loved and the other unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have borne him children, and if the firstborn son belongs to the unloved, then on the day when he assigns his possessions as an inheritance to his sons, he may not treat the son of the loved as the firstborn in preference to the son of the unloved, who is the firstborn, but he shall acknowledge the firstborn, the son of the unloved, by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the firstfruits of his strength. The right of the firstborn is his.​
(this also simply assume a polygamous society without even frowning upon it - the Law just makes sure the rights of the firstborn is protected.)

All of that taken together (including the famous verses of 2 Samuel 12:7-8), the fact that Israel as a nation was built-up from Jacob and his 2 wives + 2 concubines, etc. illustrates a society where polygamy never was regarded as sin, but was just assumed to be present in society - it just came with certain rules. A marriage is a treaty, so the rights of a woman in that treaty never should be violated in case her husband would marry another woman.

(I saw your previous post at a later moment, so that's why I felt it still would be good to respond to that; I hope that's OK)
 
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EpicScore

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Well, they understand forgiveness totally wrong then. Forgiveness doesn't mean you stay with him no matter what, excuse him, believe his next promise and take it lying down.

Forgiveness and choosing to live with him are two different things.

Also, I question the motives and sincerity of Christians whose immediate response towards people who has been victimised, oppressed or have otherwise suffered wrongdoing is to tell them to forgive the ones who had hurt them rather than confront the perpetrator and hold them accountable for their unjust actions. It seems like they're trying to brush the issue aside while also virtue signaling, since standing up against the abuser and/or giving meaningful support to the ones hurt are obviously harder than simply offering seemingly pious advice for the victim to just "let go and let God".

@YanaMarkova: I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Leaving aside the exact definition of adultery (which I'm not convinced is relevant to the issue here), it's clear that your husband had not fulfilled his role as a husband and treated you the way he should (Ephesisans 5:23, 28). I will pray for you, and hope that He will send people who can love, support and care for you in your difficulties. I also encourage that you not to give up crying out to God for help and mercy, for "Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear." (Isaiah 59:1)
 
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LoricaLady

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Also, I question the motives of Christians whose immediate response towards people who has been victimised, oppressed or have otherwise suffered wrongdoing is to tell them to forgive the ones who had hurt them rather than confront the perpetrator and hold them accountable for their unjust actions. It seems like they're trying to brush the issue aside while also virtue signaling, since standing up against the abuser and/or giving real help to the ones hurt are obviously harder than simply offering seemingly pious advice for the victim to just "let go and let God".

@YanaMarkova: I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Leaving aside the exact definition of adultery (which I'm not convinced is relevant to the issue here), it's clear that your husband had not fulfilled his role as a husband and treated you the way he should (Ephesisans 5:23, 28). I will pray for you, and hope that He will send people who can love, support and care for you in your difficulties. I also encourage that you not to give up crying out to God for help and mercy, for "Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear." (Isaiah 59:1)
Amen.
 
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AK1982

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Also, I question the motives and sincerity of Christians whose immediate response towards people who has been victimised, oppressed or have otherwise suffered wrongdoing is to tell them to forgive the ones who had hurt them rather than confront the perpetrator and hold them accountable for their unjust actions. It seems like they're trying to brush the issue aside while also virtue signaling, since standing up against the abuser and/or giving meaningful support to the ones hurt are obviously harder than simply offering seemingly pious advice for the victim to just "let go and let God".

Fully agree!
 
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Also, I question the motives and sincerity of Christians whose immediate response towards people who has been victimised, oppressed or have otherwise suffered wrongdoing is to tell them to forgive the ones who had hurt them rather than confront the perpetrator and hold them accountable for their unjust actions. It seems like they're trying to brush the issue aside while also virtue signaling, since standing up against the abuser and/or giving meaningful support to the ones hurt are obviously harder than simply offering seemingly pious advice for the victim to just "let go and let God".

@YanaMarkova: I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Leaving aside the exact definition of adultery (which I'm not convinced is relevant to the issue here), it's clear that your husband had not fulfilled his role as a husband and treated you the way he should (Ephesisans 5:23, 28). I will pray for you, and hope that He will send people who can love, support and care for you in your difficulties. I also encourage that you not to give up crying out to God for help and mercy, for "Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear." (Isaiah 59:1)

While I don't know the full details of this particular case; IMHO we always have to be careful not to quickly accept any claim of maltreatment or abuse - but also never swipe those claims under the carpet; they just need to be assessed properly - normally checking both parties to the conflict.

Let's not forget this is a cross-cultural conflict involving two Christians; what is perfectly permissible treatment among Christians in Nigeria may be regarded completely off-the-charts in the USA. And one cannot say that always by definition the Nigerian way is 'wrong' and the USA way is 'right'. That would be cultural colonialism.

I'm not defending a possibly unreliable, cheating, violent brother in Nigeria (assuming the husband is really a believer) - I just don't know the full picture. I encourage due diligence.

God himself through Paul makes a very, very strong case that in case of marital conflict between believers, we should try to repair ties, or when not possible, the estranged wife should remain single afterwards; that's tough cookie to swallow:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.​

This verse compels all involved to do the utmost to try reconciliation. It is not necessary to question the motives of those who advocate to do just that.

Unfortunately sometimes when a husband addresses an issue with his wife, or is angry with her for some reason, the emotional abuse card is drawn, and nowadays - without evidence tabled, public opinion usually sways in favour of the wife; which is an unjust reaction. Without the proper evidence we should not favour anyone's claim.
 
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Mayflower1

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Im so sorry to hear about your situation and will remember you in my prayers as well as your child and your ex.

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EpicScore

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While I don't know the full details of this particular case; IMHO we always have to be careful not to quickly accept any claim of maltreatment or abuse - but also never swipe those claims under the carpet; they just need to be assessed properly - normally checking both parties to the conflict.

Let's not forget this is a cross-cultural conflict involving two Christians; what is perfectly permissible treatment among Christians in Nigeria may be regarded completely off-the-charts in the USA. And one cannot say that always by definition the Nigerian way is 'wrong' and the USA way is 'right'. That would be cultural colonialism.

I'm not defending a possibly unreliable, cheating, violent brother in Nigeria (assuming the husband is really a believer) - I just don't know the full picture. I encourage due diligence.

Good point.

Serious personal issues such as these need a great deal of care to handle, and while I do not profess to be an expert in such areas, I'm sure that this involves a lot more steps than just finger pointing. I wrote what I did in the previous one because in the cases I've seen in some churches, it seems more like that the other congregation (and even the pastors and elders) don't want to bother with the process and simply pull out the "forgive and forget" card as a way of saying, "shut up and stop whining, you're making us uncomfortable".

As for the cross-cultural issues... there's admittedly a few areas where Biblical principles aren't as clear-cut, and there's room for different interpretations and applications in various time and cultures. At the same time we shouldn't be too quick to use culture as a justification for behaviours that's not actually condoned in the Bible.

For instance, the Bible condones corporal punishment or discipline towards one's children, it never makes the same allowance for husbands towards their wives. In fact the passage that teaches that "husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies" (Ephesians 5:28) indicates that a husband should not inflict on their wives what they would not be willing to inflict on themselves.

God himself through Paul makes a very, very strong case that in case of marital conflict between believers, we should try to repair ties, or when not possible, the estranged wife should remain single afterwards; that's tough cookie to swallow:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.​

This verse compels all involved to do the utmost to try reconciliation. It is not necessary to question the motives of those who advocate to do just that.

Unfortunately sometimes when a husband addresses an issue with his wife, or is angry with her for some reason, the emotional abuse card is drawn, and nowadays - without evidence tabled, public opinion usually sways in favour of the wife; which is an unjust reaction. Without the proper evidence we should not favour anyone's claim.

I won't comment on the divorce and reconciliation part since that is beyond the scope of my knowledge and understanding of the specific issue. I cannot agree with what you say that people's motives don't matter, however, because that sounds like saying, "The ends justify the means."

Of course, they have the right to speak and give advice as they see fit. But as Christians I think we all need the self-reminder and awareness to speak with care and wisdom. Especially when dealing with other people, it's more important to give them enough space and support for them to grow into the place we want them to be, than to simply push/force them into a dogma they are not ready to accept in their own conscience.
 
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