Bible College Graduates

I haven't been to bible college or seminary. But I contemplated doing it and was encouraged by several from the church I attended. While I can joke about their suggestions in hindsight. It's evident given my calling that wasn't the ideal course. The fact they advised it based on my enthusiasm for the word is disheartening. That's a big investment of time and resources that should be prayed about beforehand.

I've known my share from both institutions. The majority are rich in head knowledge. They can explain complicated concepts with ease. But there was a practical part that was lacking. Many couldn't distill the same in layman's speak or use the mundane as a springboard for deeper lessons.

The 'formula' becomes a noose. They couldn't think outside of it. I recall my time with Alpha as a co-leader. We were the only pair who stayed afterwards to pray for our group. Most of the members were homeless. But they had the biggest breakthroughs of all.

Then there's the little things you can't teach. It comes with wisdom and experience. I used to bring dessert every week. I wanted them to feel special and cared for. And they always enjoyed it. Physical touch was another factor. It isn't commonplace for that demographic. No one squeezes their hand or hugs them. But I did it all the time. They even had birthday cake.

Seeing the Lord lift them from their conditions was miraculous. We saw salvation, healing, deliverance, jobs, apartments, and reconciliations. It was incredible. The secret was love and attentiveness. And trusting the Lord. They walked away knowing the Holy Spirit intimately. I couldn't ask for more.

~bella

Michael Collum said:

wonder what they're teaching them?

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My question was more, "I wonder how their churches have treated them?" I agree with @topher694 that the reality of many church contexts is deeply unhealthy.

And not only that, but more and more, I see a gap where the demands of the role are changing, but honesty about, and practical responses to that, from the church - either institutionally or at a local level - are lagging badly. Leaving ministers feeling that we're on our own in working all of this out without adequate resources. (One colleague of mine has spoken bitterly of being expected to "make bricks without straw," and he articulates something many are feeling).

Paidiske said:

My question was more, "I wonder how their churches have treated them?" I agree with @topher694 that the reality of many church contexts is deeply unhealthy.

And not only that, but more and more, I see a gap where the demands of the role are changing, but honesty about, and practical responses to that, from the church - either institutionally or at a local level - are lagging badly. Leaving ministers feeling that we're on our own in working all of this out without adequate resources. (One colleague of mine has spoken bitterly of being expected to "make bricks without straw," and he articulates something many are feeling).

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Sad but true. This week we celebrated a major ministry anniversary. In doing so we looked back on some of the amazing things that God has done, which was really cool and fun. But at the same time I was reminded of how difficult the journey has been as well, and how very close we came to giving up on the whole thing several times. By God's grace we obviously didn't, but it sure can be difficult and lonely at times.

Paidiske said:

My question was more, "I wonder how their churches have treated them?" I agree with @topher694 that the reality of many church contexts is deeply unhealthy.

And not only that, but more and more, I see a gap where the demands of the role are changing, but honesty about, and practical responses to that, from the church - either institutionally or at a local level - are lagging badly. Leaving ministers feeling that we're on our own in working all of this out without adequate resources. (One colleague of mine has spoken bitterly of being expected to "make bricks without straw," and he articulates something many are feeling).

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Okay, this kind reminds me of the Levites in the old testament. They basically had to teach and do what they were told in order to be paid/have food to eat.

But I have seen the situation where everyone expects the pastor to do everything, and on the flip side where it is impossible to do anything except through the pastor. The congregation demands seminary education, and has particular expectations regarding the results of it, so the congregation would also be part of any issues that arise.

What you say makes sense.

It's also... let's see if I can put this into words adequately.

Part of the pastor/minister/priest's role is to build connections and relationships in the local community, outside the church membership. In the past, that was just a given; the church had a recognised place in the local community and, by default, so did its clergy. But as society has shifted, the work involved in building those connections has changed (and technology has changed it even more; for example, how many clergy now manage their church's social media? Something I promise you seminary didn't prepare me for!).

But what I find is that parish and institutional expectations don't recognise any of those changes. People seem to think we can just keep doing what ministers did fifty years ago (and then they wonder why new people don't come to church). Or they oppose creative connections because they don't see the value of doing things in a new way.

So on the one hand, the minister is trying to reach an unchurched generation and build genuine and meaningful relationships. On the other hand, the parish doesn't comprehend why the minister thinks they need a Facebook page (for example). So we end up caught in this in-between space just trying to do our best, while being pulled in every different direction.

If that sort of makes sense?

Paidiske said:

It's also... let's see if I can put this into words adequately.

Part of the pastor/minister/priest's role is to build connections and relationships in the local community, outside the church membership. In the past, that was just a given; the church had a recognised place in the local community and, by default, so did its clergy. But as society has shifted, the work involved in building those connections has changed (and technology has changed it even more; for example, how many clergy now manage their church's social media? Something I promise you seminary didn't prepare me for!).

But what I find is that parish and institutional expectations don't recognise any of those changes. People seem to think we can just keep doing what ministers did fifty years ago (and then they wonder why new people don't come to church). Or they oppose creative connections because they don't see the value of doing things in a new way.

So on the one hand, the minister is trying to reach an unchurched generation and build genuine and meaningful relationships. On the other hand, the parish doesn't comprehend why the minister thinks they need a Facebook page (for example). So we end up caught in this in-between space just trying to do our best, while being pulled in every different direction.

If that sort of makes sense?

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Almost like what God said to Moses wasn't in jest,

"howabout I leave these people to die, and start over with you?"

Afin said:

Hi, I am new here and a Bible College graduate. I attended church for a few years after but now that I have moved and haven’t been able to find a church with service opportunities or a strong message, I have been not been going. I am wondering if there is a thread/forum where I can ask a good place to get back into communion with God.

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Welcome to the Christian Forums. The following forum may be helpful:

Looking for a Church

Afin said:

I’d like to attend some sort of retreat! Does anyone know of anything like that? I have a dog, so would have to be pet friendly. Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong thread.

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I doubt there is any pet-friendly congregations .

Vince53 said:

Topher made some valuable points when he pointed out that Bible colleges really don't prepare you for the burden of ministry. They TOLD us that it would be rough, but the reality was much worse.

Often coming from Godly families that respected God's servants, many of them were not prepared for what was really going to happen.

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Part of my requirements for ordaining new ministers is that they do a 9 month mentoring & discipleship program with my wife and me. This is not Bible school, this is where we tell them behind-the-scenes stories and try to hammer into them the realities of ministry and how to handle these crazy situations.

You know what the most common result of this class is in the months and years afterwards? One of them coming to me with a crazy issue they never expected and me saying, "see, I told you" and them responding, "you sure did!" The good news is we can often have a laugh about it at that point.

Vince53 said:

My own efforts have shown me that several years after getting out, less than half of all Bible college graduates even attend church.

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I believe it. I went to a Bible college and I stopped going to church after it because of being burned at the college. I just didn't want to associate myself with Christians anymore. This past year, I started going again. But, it's still hard.

shineyourlight said:

I went to a Bible college and I stopped going to church after it because of being burned at the college. I just didn't want to associate myself with Christians anymore.

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I'm curious -- can you describe what happened? Was it the course content, or did the college's rules portray a version of Christianity you didn't like, or were the students mean to each other?

PloverWing said:

I'm curious -- can you describe what happened? Was it the course content, or did the college's rules portray a version of Christianity you didn't like, or were the students mean to each other?

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The students were cruel. I was burned by Christians, not the college itself. I was Student Council, RA, team leader - and even though I had all the titles and the "popularity", the words of others really got to me after three years of hearing the same things about me.

I just didn't want to be involved in church anymore after that and I was out of the church for about 7 years.

@shineyourlight : I'm sorry. That sounds awful.

PloverWing said:

@shineyourlight : I'm sorry. That sounds awful.

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Thank you, it was pretty terrible.

My senior year, God started prepping me for the future years I was gonna be gone from the church. I didn't know at the time that I was going to leave the church, but God had told me in the beginning of my senior year, "A change is coming in your direction. A change that will be hard." And he gave me tidbits of wisdom throughout that year.

When I was gone and stopped going to church and stopped associating myself with Christians and with God, I still remembered the tidbits of wisdom and thought to myself, "Ah, that's why this is happening. I should be doing THIS, but I'm not going to."

Thankfully, He readily took me back

In my experience, most people who go to theological college are mature aged and have already built a life outside the ministry.

Vince53 said:

"In my experience, most people who go to theological college are mature aged and have already built a life outside the ministry."

Alas, Paidisdke, many of them graduated from a Christian high school and went straight to Bible college without ever having worked a real job. And many others did as you have described.

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I worked for 7 years before I went to Bible college and didn't go to a Christian high school.....

I prayed long and hard about going to Bible college and felt led to go there for a good year before I applied.

Similarly. I had a prior degree and had worked in an unrelated industry before going to college, and spent 18 months in a discernment process before being accepted as an ordination candidate.

When I started, there were only three people there under 30, and two of us were in our late twenties.

shineyourlight said:

I worked for 7 years before I went to Bible college and didn't go to a Christian high school.....

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Paidiske said:

Similarly. I had a prior degree and had worked in an unrelated industry before going to college,

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Both of you can correct me on this but as I mentioned in post #16, there is a difference between Seminaries, which accept people with an undergraduate degree, and Bible Colleges, which accept people with a high school diploma. This distinction is important.