Purpose of the sabbath

BABerean2

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Brother, the reason Judaism doesn't accept Jesus is because Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophesies about the Messiah.

How many of the things below do they reject?


Can we prove Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures?


Prophecy Fulfillment


1. Born of Seed of the Woman Genesis 3:15 Galatians 4:4

2. Born of a Virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18, 24-25

3. Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17

4. Seed of Abraham Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1

5. Son of Isaac Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:23, 34

6. Son of Jacob Numbers 24:17 Luke 3:23, 34

7. Tribe of Judah Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:23, 34

8. Family line of Jesse Isaiah 11:1 Luke 3:23, 32

9. House of David Jeremiah 23:5 Luke 3:23, 31

10. Born at Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1

11. Presented with Gifts Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:1, 11

12. Herod Kills Children Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16

13. His Pre-Existence Micah 5:2 Colossians 1:17

14. Shall Be Immanuel (God with Us) Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23

15. Preceded by Messenger Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:1-2

16. Entered Jerusalem on Donkey Zechariah 9:9 Luke 19:35-37

17. Sold for Thirty Pieces of Silver Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 26:15

18. Price Thrown for Potter’s field Zechariah 11:13 Matthew 27:5, 7

19. Silent Before Accusers Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:12

20. Wounded and Bruised Isaiah 53:5 Matthew 27:26

21. Crucified with Thieves Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38

22. Garments Parted and Lots Cast Psalm 22:14 John 19:23-24

23. His Forsaken Cry Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46

24. Bones Not Broken Psalm 34:20 John 19:33

25. His Side Pierced Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34-37

26. Fulfilled the New Covenant Jeremiah 31:31-34 Hebrews 8:6-13, 10:16-18, 12:22-24

27. Messiah killed Daniel 9:24-27 John 19:18-30



Adapted from the book… “The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.

Josh McDowell set out to prove that Christianity was false.

Because of what he found in his research, he became a Christian.


The same thing happened to C.S. Lewis, and Lee Stroebel.


The probability of any man fulfilling just 8 of these is 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. (17 zeros)


The writings of Roman historian Tacitus prove Jesus was a real person.
 
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HARK!

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Also worth noting is that the author of the CLV was excommunicated for heresy... So watch for translation bias...

So was Martin Luther; but that doesn't stop me from objectively reviewing his work.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If you are still "working" in an attempt to keep the Sinai Covenant, it is no wonder you cannot accept what the text of Colossians 2:16-17 actually says.
Well let's examine your claims, here because I believe it is you who does not accept what Colossians 2:16-17 actually says and this has already been shown to you from the scriptures in posts you do not respond to. It seems you also do not know what the Sinai covenant is. Remember, I asked you many times already what laws do you think made up the Sinai covenant and how have these laws changed in the new covenant? All I hear back from you is silence because I know you do not know from what you are posting. Do you want to answer the question?
Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;
I do accept what the texts actually say verbatim and in context. This is what the actual text says verbatim here; Colossians 2:16-17 says "Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbath DAYS (N-GNP) which are shadows of things to come AND THE BODY [IS not in the Greek] OF CHRIST.

The text says sabbath DAYS and the body [is] OF Christ.

Here you try and change the text to say Sabbath day (singular) when the scripture says sabbath days plural and the body is Christ when the text says the body is of Christ while separating everything from it's context which is the to Feast days, and their meat and drink offerings, the new moons and their annual sabbaths (plural) from Leviticus 23. Which of course cannot be the "seventh day" Sabbath (singular) of God's 10 commandments which is not just annual but weekly and eternal pointing backwards and not forwards to the finished work of creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). There was a detailed scripture response provided, here; here; here; here; and here already you simply have chosen to ignore. Then in Colossians 2:17 you try and change v17 that says ".... but the body [is] of Christ" to "the body is Christ" despite [is] not even being in the Greek or in the correct English order which translated with the addition says [is] of Christ or in reference to the Greek του (G3588) which is used after σῶμα and before Χριστός. A detailed scripture response was provided only as a help to you here and here linked. All of the above linked posts have already proven it is you that does not accept a plain reading of Colossians 2:16-17 and is trying to change the what the scripture says. If you disagree with what I have shared with you from the scriptures then prove it. If you cannot why not accept Gods' correction and be blessed. Ignoring what has been shared only in love and as a help to you does not make Gods Word disappear according to the scriptures. The Words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgment day according to John 12:47-48.
You have failed to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" as Paul commanded in Galatians 4:24-31, because it is now "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13. The same man who recorded Galatians 4:24-31 also recorded Colossians 2:16-17.Do you think Paul changed his mind?
Why do you think Paul changed His mind? This is why I asked you what do you think the old covenant law are and how do you think they have changed in the new covenant. You do not know do you? What are the old covenant laws that are obsolete? Your mistaken understanding of Colossians 2:16-17 has already been addressed in detailed scripture responses, here; here; here; here; and here linked as a reference and help. What are the laws in the old covenant that have been replaced in the new covenant? Do you know or would you like me to answer my own question?
You also cannot accept what the Early Church Fathers said below about the Sabbath. Do you think they are all wrong, and Ellen G. White is correct?
According to Jesus and the Apostles in God's Word we are told that there will come in among us false teachers to deceive if possible Gods' very elect *Matthew 7:15; Matthew 10:16; Matthew 24:24; Acts of the Apostles 20:29 this was taking place even in the days of the Apostles *2 Peter 2:1-5 and Paul further warning us in Acts of the Apostles 20:28-29.

So to seek sources outside of Gods' Word to support or justify breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is building your house on sifting sand in my view. Yes I think they are indeed wrong and those who teach against God's Word are not my fathers and the bible is indeed correct and is our only standard of truth and error.

Let's be honest now. Show me a single scripture from the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day or rest? - There is none. According to the scriptures Gods' people met every day of the week in Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. That does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest now does it?

Jesus and all the Apostles who are our example kept Gods' 4th commandment according to the scriptures. Historically, God has always had a people that have always kept His 4th commandment unbroken all through time to this very present day well before EGW and any SDA Church while many Church's that are not SDA from the East and elsewhere continue to keep God's 4th commandment according to the scriptures. What have you provided in order to justify breaking God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments? The early fathers from the Roman Catholic Church as sources outside of the bible and scripture? Something to pray about. Who should we believe God or man? According to Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are now worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9.

Do you believe these words of Jesus?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Because according to the scriptures Paul was already celebrating Sunday before the church in Rome was established. To say the the Catholic Church established Sunday worship is accurate but not the Roman Church.
Where does it say in the scriptures Paul was celebrating Sunday sacredness in honor of the resurrection? I have not heard that one before and it is definitely not biblical. None of the Apostles that I am aware of according to the bible celebrated Sunday as the resurrection of Christ and there is no scripture support to claims this so why pretend that they did?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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We both know that isn’t true. You know full well that Paul celebrated the Lord’s Day on Sunday so stop trying to cover it up with this false statement about the Roman Church starting that tradition. Paul was celebrating the Lord’s Day before he even went to Rome. Acts 20 records Paul celebrating the Lord’s Day on Sunday before he was arrested and eventually taken to Rome. So the Roman Church hadn’t even been established yet.

Where does it say Sunday or the first day of the week is the Lord's day in the scripture (Koine Greek)? According to the scriptures "the Lord's day" is the Sabbath day *Matthew 12:8 not Sunday.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, not necessarily. Jesus didn’t say He would abolish the need for Gentiles to be circumcised to enter into God’s covenant, it was the Church that relayed the message.
Jesus was not talking to Gentiles in Matthew 5 was he but Paul was in 1 Corinthians 7:19; Romans 3:31; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 13:8-10?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I’m not making scripture say anything other than what actually it says
Well that is not true. Please see post # 569 linked that proves you are trying to change what the scriptures actually say in Colossians 2:16-17.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Paul made no distinction between ceremonial laws and God’s commandments because they were all God’s commandments. The “ceremonial laws” were just as much a commandment of God as all the rest. God Himself commanded the ceremonial laws.

All Gods' laws were given by God but only the 10 commandments were spoken by God alone and written with Gods' own finger on two tables of stone to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin (when broken) and righteousness (when obeyed) according to the scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. So God's 10 commandments are the standard of moral right doing (righteousness) to God and man when obeyed from the heart and moral wrong doing (sin) when disobeyed from the heart.

God's eternal laws (10 commandments) as the standard of sin and righteousness and the knowledge of good and evil are different from the Mosaic "shadow laws" for remission of sins under the old covenant that are outlined in the Levitical Priesthood, the earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and sin offerings that were required to receive God's forgiveness which were shadow laws of things to come under the new covenant (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22.)

According to the scriptures it was God that made this distinction when he spoke and wrote the 10 commandments alone to Gods' people *Exodus 32:16 and separated the Mosiac book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 from the 10 commandments written on stone in the Ark (house) of the covenant (see Deuteronomy 31:26; Deuteronomy 10:5). Paul did not need to make any distinctions between the law because he already knew the roles of all of God's laws were as already outlined in the old testament scriptures. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles their bible was the old testament scriptures as these scriptures pointed to the coming of Jesus as the Savior of the Word. You have to close your eyes to Gods' Word to think that there are not different categories and purposes of law in the old and new testament scriptures.
 
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guevaraj

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The probability of any man fulfilling just 8 of these is 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. (17 zeros)
Brother, that's enough for us, but not for Judaism. They expect the messiah to fulfill everything said by the prophets or Jesus is not the one they are waiting for. When Jesus returns and fulfills everything the prophets said about Him, they will have no excuse. The Bible tells us that in the future, when the "full number" of the Gentiles has "come in" to "all Israel", they will finally accept Jesus, unifying "all Israel" that remains today in two parts: Judaism & Christianity. In the future, Judaism will no longer exist because "all Israel" will accept Jesus when He finally fulfills everything.

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the FULL NUMBER of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:25b-29 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Awesome you’ve posted a commandment of keeping the Sabbath here’s one about Gentiles among the Jews must be circumcised.

“This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:10-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Acts 15 this law was abolished.

Your interpretation of Acts of the Apostles 15 has Paul in contradiction with Paul when he says to the Corinthians believers sometime latter in 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. According to the scriptures Acts 15 was over the question; "Is circumcision a requirement for salvation for new gentile believers?" (Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2) not are God's 10 commandments the standard of good and evil; sin and righteousness. You have Paul contradicting Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:19; also compare Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31. You may want to revisit your teachings here. According to the new covenant the physical sign of circumcision was a "shadow law" of a new heart through faith in God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; 1 Corinthians 7:19; Jeremiah 4:4; Deuteronomy 30:6; Romans 2:28-29)

Something to pray about.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Actually he is telling you the truth and providing scripture. Your not listening to what @Yeshua HaDerekh is saying to you and unwilling to listen to anyone else for that matter.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Indeed. The writings by early church fathers regrading the sabbath shown in post #533, were written more than a century before Constantine issued his civil decree. I guess EGW didn't research that thoroughly enough.
What makes you think these so called early fathers as sources quoted outside of the bible supersede scripture from inside of the bible? According to Jesus and the Apostles in God's Word we are told that there will come in among us false teachers to deceive if possible Gods' very elect *Matthew 7:15; Matthew 10:16; Matthew 24:24; Acts of the Apostles 20:29 this was taking place even in the days of the Apostles *2 Peter 2:1-5 and Paul further warning us in Acts of the Apostles 20:28-29.

So to seek sources outside of Gods' Word to support or justify breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is building your house on sifting sand in my view. Yes I think they are indeed wrong and those who teach against God's Word are not my fathers and the bible is indeed correct and is our only standard of truth and error.

Let's be honest now. Show me a single scripture from the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day or rest? - There is none. According to the scriptures Gods' people met every day of the week in Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. That does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest now does it?

Jesus and all the Apostles who are our example kept Gods' 4th commandment according to the scriptures. Historically, God has always had a people that have always kept His 4th commandment unbroken all through time to this very present day well before EGW and any SDA Church while many Church's that are not SDA from the East and elsewhere continue to keep God's 4th commandment according to the scriptures. What have you provided in order to justify breaking God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments? The early fathers from the Roman Catholic Church as sources outside of the bible and scripture? Something to pray about. Who should we believe God or man? According to Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are now worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. Do you believe these words of Jesus?
 
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HARK!

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Awesome you’ve posted a commandment of keeping the Sabbath here’s one about Gentiles among the Jews must be circumcised.


“This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:10-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Acts 15 this law was abolished.

Was this before or after Paul circumcised Timothy?

 
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BABerean2

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Historically, God has always had a people that have always kept His 4th commandment unbroken all through time to this very present day well before EGW and any SDA Church while many Church's that are not SDA from the East and elsewhere continue to keep God's 4th commandment according to the scriptures. What have you provided in order to justify breaking God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments? The early fathers from the Roman Catholic Church as sources outside of the bible and scripture?

Your claim that God has always had people that kept the 4th commandment falls apart below.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

The above temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant is confirmed below by Paul.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth
the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

------------------------

The Roman Catholic Church did not exist until after the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.
The following Early Church Fathers wrote the following before that date.

Early Church Fathers on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)

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BABerean2

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The Bible tells us that in the future, when the "full number" of the Gentiles has "come in" to "all Israel", they will finally accept Jesus, unifying "all Israel" that remains today in two parts: Judaism & Christianity. In the future, Judaism will no longer exist because "all Israel" will accept Jesus when He finally fulfills everything.

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the FULL NUMBER of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:25b-29 NIV)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are attempting to promote the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which is less than 200 years old. Its errors are exposed below.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart.


Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?

(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)



The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?


1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants?


2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?


3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?


4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?


5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?


6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?


7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?


8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)


9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9)



10. Watch the YouTube video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.



Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:



“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.


Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.


John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…


"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)

What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?

Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?

Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?

Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?


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Your claim that God has always had people that kept the 4th commandment falls apart below.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

The above temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant is confirmed below by Paul.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth
the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Your understanding of what Paul is attempting to convey falls apart here:

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.
 
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BABerean2

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Your understanding of what Paul is attempting to convey falls apart here:

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.


Abraham absolutely kept the commandments that God gave him.

"Go to a land I will show you."

"Circumcise your male offspring."


You are trying to ignore what Paul said in Galatians 3:16-19, when he said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

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Abraham absolutely kept the commandments that God gave him.

"Go to a land I will show you."

"Circumcise your male offspring."


You are trying to ignore what Paul said in Galatians 3:16-19, when he said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

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I didn't ignore it. That's a misunderstanding on your part. I clearly pointed out that your understanding of what Paul is attempting to convey is lacking.

The Torah (nomos) (law) are the books that were given to Moses. The same word is used for YHWH's instructions. Abraham kept YHWH's instructions.

Here is another example (I have many.):

(CLV) Gn 18:20
Then Yahweh said: The outcry over Sodom and Gomorrah is great indeed, and their sin, it is exceedingly grave indeed.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

In case you are unaware, YHWH destroyed these cities before Moses.
 
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Of course not, but folks need to know that among other things he denied the trinity.

Has the trinity been removed from his "biased" version; or is this an ad hominem argument?

What does any of this have to do with the topic of this thread?

I broke down the Greek into clear terms. The CLV conforms the information that I provided. The mistranslations that were cited do not.
 
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