Star PTA and NAACP-CRT OPPONENTS, LET THEM DIE

Subduction Zone

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It is heavy on claims, but light on evidence. They may be right. The problem is that they do not seem to support their claims.

By the way, I have no doubts that some on the CRT side overblow claims of racism. The problem is that some states appear to do the opposite. They try to put a too rosy depiction of what happened in the past of the U.S..
 
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Subduction Zone

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Why don't you find a left leaning site that is critical of CRT. Bet you won't find a single one.

Here's one that praises it. Take look at the bottom of the article. It summarizes it very well.

CRT teaches that white people are racist. Pretty clear.
Sigh, you have just admitted that you have no reliable sources that support your claims. I do not like to rely on overly leftist sites either.

By the way, you will find me to be quite reasonable if you can find reliable sources that support your claims. The odds are that you will describe middle of the road sites as "liberal" when they disagree with you just as extreme leftists will claim that such sites are "conservative".

Shoot for the middle or even left of center sites if you want to convince anyone.
 
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rjs330

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Sigh, you have just admitted that you have no reliable sources that support your claims. I do not like to rely on overly leftist sites either.

By the way, you will find me to be quite reasonable if you can find reliable sources that support your claims. The odds are that you will describe middle of the road sites as "liberal" when they disagree with you just as extreme leftists will claim that such sites are "conservative".

Shoot for the middle or even left of center sites if you want to convince anyone.

Once again you have the issue of in your mind, there are no reliable sources.

Because the left media love it and think it's wonderful. It takes the right media to point out the problems. But since it's a right media it's unreliable. Even though you can't actually refute any if the claims. All you have to do is say, it's right leaning so I don't have to listen.
It is heavy on claims, but light on evidence. They may be right. The problem is that they do not seem to support their claims.

By the way, I have no doubts that some on the CRT side overblow claims of racism. The problem is that some states appear to do the opposite. They try to put a too rosy depiction of what happened in the past of the U.S..

What!? The article is FILLED with quotes directly from the people involved. The quotes support the whole issue on what's wrong with it.

What are are you looking for anyway? Be specific. Cause if if that article has supported quotes if the supporters isn't enough I don't know what would be.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Subduction Zone

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Once again you have the issue of in your mind, there are no reliable sources.

Because the left media love it and think it's wonderful. It takes the right media to point out the problems. But since it's a right media it's unreliable. Even though you can't actually refute any if the claims. All you have to do is say, it's right leaning so I don't have to listen.


What!? The article is FILLED with quotes directly from the people involved. The quotes support the whole issue on what's wrong with it.

What are are you looking for anyway? Be specific. Cause if if that article has supported quotes if the supporters isn't enough I don't know what would be.

Not true. You can seem to find any reliable resources. Don't blame others for your failures. Your last one only had claims. You need more than claims to win the debate. Right now your lack of evidence makes it appear as if you are wrong.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Why don't you find a left leaning site that is critical of CRT. Bet you won't find a single one.

Here's one that praises it. Take look at the bottom of the article. It summarizes it very well.

CRT teaches that white people are racist. Pretty clear.
And yet you cannot support that claim. Such a pity.

By the way, I can see your error. It is the same error that people make about BLM. BLM and CRT both are broad ideas. That means that you will find all sorts of people supporting them. Some of them are going to be the people that you describe, but it is an error to assume that everyone is crazy left, just as when one deals with Republicans it is a mistake to assume that they are all crazy right.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Jimmy D

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That's definitely a start. Of course we've seen a number of incidents where CRT propeganda has been taught and pushed in schools. Teaching our white kids they are a racist lot and teaching black kids that white people are a bunch of racists.

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jul/6/teachers-union-vows-defend-critical-race-theory-cl/

Most people of conscience seek schools — and a society — in which bigotry and racism are absent. But in the effort to create a place where tolerance prevails, schools need to be cautious about indoctrinating some students on how they are victims of oppression and how they should identify as such, and how other students, by virtue of their whiteness alone, are oppressors and should apologize for such, instead of fostering racial equity and coexistence.

There’s cause for concern in teaching critical race theory - The Boston Globe

Teachers Union President Weighs In On Critical Race Theory Debate
In the above article the unit n head speaks about teaching the truth about racism. What exactly are they reaching our kids? If it's CRTs truth they are teaching white people are inherently racist. All of us. And us white folks all want laws that protect white people's power. Yet they can't point to one law that does that.

There are black people who recognize this divisive propaganda.

Father goes viral for take down of critical race theory at school board meeting

Avoided my question yet again, I wonder why?

Third time of asking…

Have you read that article? I’m curious as to what you find disgusting about it or how it attacks children?


EmbraceRace | Your 5 Year-Old is Already Racially Biased.
 
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rjs330

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Really? Then why did you argue here that “very few alive that went through Jim Crow.”?

Ditto here:
Eric Holder: American Greatness never really existed

I don’t think you learned as much about it as you think you did.

Point 1 is true. There are less than .25 million African Americans that were of the age to remember Jim Crow laws. And not all of them actually lived in areas that had Jim Crow laws.
There are about .5 million that are 0-21 years old.
About .5 million that are 21-37.
About .5 that are 38- 52
About .25 million that are 52-72.
And less than .25 million that are 72 and older.

By 1960 about half of the African American Population lived in the South. If that is the case how many African Americans alive today lived in the South and experienced Jim Crow? Not very many.

Jim Crow was struck down in 1964.

So, no not very many today actually experienced Jim Crow.

The African Americans today so not need CRT to attack white people. Cause there aren't many white people who are racist today and would support anything like Jim Crow. Teaching white people they are racist by virtue of the color of their skin is awful. And teaching blacks that white people are racist due to the color if their skin and the white man is just trying to hold them down is evil.
 
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rjs330

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Not true. You can seem to find any reliable resources. Don't blame others for your failures. Your last one only had claims. You need more than claims to win the debate. Right now your lack of evidence makes it appear as if you are wrong.

Lack of evidence for what exactly?
 
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rjs330

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Jimmy D

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Here's an article that lists just a couple of things.
Critical Race Theory Is Dangerous. Here’s How to Fight It

And your link above is another.

My link is to an article you mentioned in the OP as disgusting and an attack on children. Because the article seems innocuous and actually offers some good advice, I’ve asked three times now exactly what in the article makes you say that and you have avoided answering.

I can only assume that you hadn’t bothered reading it, but bought it up as some sort of scary example of CRT based on it’s title, which is a pretty stupid thing to do. Or that you have since read it and discovered that it doesn’t “attack” children but you can’t bring yourself to admit that you were in error.

Don’t bother responding unless you are actually going answer my question, you’re just wasting everyone’s time.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Point 1 is true. There are less than .25 million African Americans that were of the age to remember Jim Crow laws. And not all of them actually lived in areas that had Jim Crow laws.
There are about .5 million that are 0-21 years old.
About .5 million that are 21-37.
About .5 that are 38- 52
About .25 million that are 52-72.
And less than .25 million that are 72 and older.

Where on earth did you get those numbers? Added up, that would mean that there are fewer than 2 million blacks of any age in the US, but there are actually 44 million:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

(13.4% of 328 million)

You're off by a factor of 22.

I also question your description of the relative sizes of the different age cohorts (especially your claim that there are twice as many Gen X'ers as Boomers):
The Growing Diversity of Black America

By 1960 about half of the African American Population lived in the South. If that is the case how many African Americans alive today lived in the South and experienced Jim Crow? Not very many.

Jim Crow policies weren't exclusive to the South.

Jim Crow was struck down in 1964.

No, it wasn't. Striking down of Jim Crow policies was a process that took a couple decades. Enforcing the rules and rooting out the racist behavior took even longer.

So, no not very many today actually experienced Jim Crow.

If we choose 1965 as our baseline and use those Pew and census numbers, then 23% of African Americans alive today, or about 10.1 million people were alive when Jim Crow was legal.

The African Americans today so not need CRT to attack white people. Cause there aren't many white people who are racist today and would support anything like Jim Crow. Teaching white people they are racist by virtue of the color of their skin is awful. And teaching blacks that white people are racist due to the color if their skin and the white man is just trying to hold them down is evil.

Is your whole position on this really based on some bogus numbers?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Lack of evidence for what exactly?
For almost all of your claims.

What CRT does is teaches white people are bad and our nation is a racist nation and white people are a bunch it racists.

This one for example.

And then there is the following quote that tells us that you do not understand CRT at all:

Never have we been taught, Jim Crow didn't exist. We were never taught slavery never happened. Never were we taught there was no civil rights movement. We have always been taught these things. I don't know where you guys ever get your ideas from that the ugly things have been ignored. We learned about all of that in school in history.

You appear to have a simplified view of the history of discrimination in America. Jim Crow laws were laws that were used in the South to oppress black people:

Jim Crow laws - Wikipedia

Referring to just those indicates that you think that oppression occurred only in the South. We know that is not the case. CRT teaches what was omitted from your, and my, educations. And once again, you cannot take the most extreme cases of CRT and try to apply that to all CRT. There is no one single CRT. As a result you will be able to find wackos that will overstate the racism in America. But the fact that some overstate the actual case is not a valid reason to hide one's head in the sand and try to limit one's history to just slavery and Jim Crow laws.
 
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dzheremi

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It's funny to me, because I had a history teacher in high school (20+ years ago) who actually was an avowed Marxist (I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but he brought out a little bust of Lenin and had us rub his bald head for good luck before exams :D), so I guess I was learning "CRT" or at least CRT-adjacent stuff long before it was ever codified as such. I think I turned out fine, and wasn't made to hate myself for being white -- only challenged to consider and respect that white perspectives aren't the only ones out there. I think that's a good lesson no matter what you call it.
 
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iluvatar5150

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It's funny to me, because I had a history teacher in high school (20+ years ago) who actually was an avowed Marxist (I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but he brought out a little bust of Lenin and had us rub his bald head for good luck before exams :D), so I guess I was learning "CRT" or at least CRT-adjacent stuff long before it was ever codified as such. I think I turned out fine, and wasn't made to hate myself for being white -- only challenged to consider and respect that white perspectives aren't the only ones out there. I think that's a good lesson no matter what you call it.

Why do you hate America?
 
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rjs330

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My link is to an article you mentioned in the OP as disgusting and an attack on children. Because the article seems innocuous and actually offers some good advice, I’ve asked three times now exactly what in the article makes you say that and you have avoided answering.

I can only assume that you hadn’t bothered reading it, but bought it up as some sort of scary example of CRT based on it’s title, which is a pretty stupid thing to do. Or that you have since read it and discovered that it doesn’t “attack” children but you can’t bring yourself to admit that you were in error.

Don’t bother responding unless you are actually going answer my question, you’re just wasting everyone’s time.

The link you mentioned was in the article AND I was referring to CRT in general. Not just the article. I hope that helps.
 
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rjs330

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Where on earth did you get those numbers? Added up, that would mean that there are fewer than 2 million blacks of any age in the US, but there are actually 44 million:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

(13.4% of 328 million)

You're off by a factor of 22.

I also question your description of the relative sizes of the different age cohorts (especially your claim that there are twice as many Gen X'ers as Boomers):
The Growing Diversity of Black America



Jim Crow policies weren't exclusive to the South.



No, it wasn't. Striking down of Jim Crow policies was a process that took a couple decades. Enforcing the rules and rooting out the racist behavior took even longer.



If we choose 1965 as our baseline and use those Pew and census numbers, then 23% of African Americans alive today, or about 10.1 million people were alive when Jim Crow was legal.



Is your whole position on this really based on some bogus numbers?

Yeah I was off here I guess. There are about 6 million African Americans that are 65 and older. They would need to be about 72 to have gone through anything like Jim Crow. And half of them wouldn't have been there. So at the very MOST 3 million would have been in the south at the time. And a lot of them would have been very young. Less than 10 years old. That was 60 years ago.

That's not very many when you look at the total population.

Are you trying to tell me that the civil rights act didn't end Jim Crow? That it wasn't at least until 1984? What kind of nonsense is that?

We are still getting off topic. CRT is still an evil ideology that demonizes one race.
 
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rjs330

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For almost all of your claims.



This one for example.

And then there is the following quote that tells us that you do not understand CRT at all:



You appear to have a simplified view of the history of discrimination in America. Jim Crow laws were laws that were used in the South to oppress black people:

Jim Crow laws - Wikipedia

Referring to just those indicates that you think that oppression occurred only in the South. We know that is not the case. CRT teaches what was omitted from your, and my, educations. And once again, you cannot take the most extreme cases of CRT and try to apply that to all CRT. There is no one single CRT. As a result you will be able to find wackos that will overstate the racism in America. But the fact that some overstate the actual case is not a valid reason to hide one's head in the sand and try to limit one's history to just slavery and Jim Crow laws.

Oh good grief, we know what Jim Crow laws were. Don't be dumb.

CRT does teach white people are bad and racist. Where on earth do you get the idea it doesn't?

"CRT teaches my daughter her mother is evil": Father gives testimony before school board

First, that racism is ordinary, not aberrational—‘normal science,’ the usual way society does business, the common, everyday experience of most people of color in this country,” on page 7 of the standard introductory textbook on the subject, titled Critical Race Theory: An Introduction.

White Solidarity

White Fragility
 
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TLK Valentine

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But it is so much more comforting to blame everything on the Old South and deny that racism existed (and exists) almost everywhere in the country.

Which is what makes the anti-CRT laws so easy to circumvent.

The teachers can teach history the way it actually was, but remember to end every lesson with a big ol' "but that was a long time ago; everyone knows things are just perfect today!" and make sure that the body cameras the Right want to stick on them don't capture the wink and air quotes...
 
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