Daniel 8:14 holy place or sanctuary?

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
What is Seventh-Day Evangelical? I am not familiar with this denomination.

Is a sub-branch of the SDA church. it is different from the main body, which is Conservative SDA, WE insist that the church emphsize 5 pillars. the 5 pillars of Seventh-day Evangelical Adventist (SEA) 1. The need to be born again, 2. a personal relationship with Christ. 3. Biblical-Theological Approach to Biblical interpretation of Scripture. 4. Scripture only as a source of Authority. 5. Accurate Theology in the SDA doctrine.

eleos1954 · Jul 18, 2021

eleos1954 said:
Not garbage.

You identity yourself as SDA ???

ok .... so you disagree with some of Pastor Bohr's teachings .... that is not to say one should disagree with all his teachings .... his teaching on the sanctuary is excellent very informative and enlightening.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 18, 2021

icedragon101 said:
Is a sub-branch of the SDA church. it is different from the main body, which is Conservative SDA, WE insist that the church emphsize 5 pillars 1. The need to be born again, 2. a personal relationship with Christ. 3. Biblical-Theological Approach to Biblical interpretation of Scripture. 4. Scripture only as a source of Authority. 5. correcting of any errors in the main line body's theology.

Do they have their own acronym? It would be nice so others don't confuse this teaching with the original SDA church.

God bless

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Do they have their own acronym? It would be nice so others don't confuse this teaching with the original SDA church.

God bless

SEA

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

eleos1954 said:
ok .... so you disagree with some of Pastor Bohr's teachings .... that is not to say one should disagree with all his teachings .... his teaching on the sanctuary is excellent very informative and enlightening.

if it come from Stephen Bhor it is garbage. He makes my skin crawl

SabbathBlessings · Jul 18, 2021

icedragon101 said:
if it come from Stephen Bhor it is garbage. He makes my skin crawl

You might want to consider changing your denomination on here to SEA instead of SDA since Dr. Bohr is an SDA pastor and a very well-respected one. You’re entitled to your opinion, but to me its not Christian-like to wear an SDA tag and than criticize the very doctrine and respected pastors that you claim to be part of. I hope you can see how confusing it would be to other posters. I’m sure you would not want me to say I am SEA and and than say the doctrine I am part of is garbage.

Also it’s more compelling to give specific reasons why you don’t agree with someone than just call them garbage.

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

Stephen Bhor is a Traditional Adventist and only respected amoung those how follow that bent of Adventism. He represents 1 branch of Adventism a very bad branch. He is not universally respected. Adventism has many branches, you don't seem to be aware of that. He is a Traditional Adventist. He is not a Conservative, nor an Evangelical , nor Feast Keeper, Liberal or Progressive, a there is a section for those here. it is the traditionalist and conservatives forum. This is not one of them. Noticed I did not bring up Stephen Bohr someone else did. I simply gave you my opinion on the Man. you seem to have a problem understand how the forums run. you are off topic again. do you have something to say about the topic. You never do.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 18, 2021

icedragon101 said:
Stephen Bhor is a Traditional Adventist and only respected amoung those how follow that bent of Adventism. He represents 1 branch of Adventism a very bad branch. He is not universally respected. Adventism has many branches, you don't seem to be aware of that. He is a Traditional Adventist. He is not a Conservative, nor an Evangelical , nor Feast Keeper, Liberal or Progressive, a there is a section for those here. it is the traditionalist and conservatives forum. This is not one of them. Noticed I did not bring up Stephen Bohr someone else did. I simply gave you my opinion on the Man. you seem to have a problem understand how the forums run. you are off topic again. do you have something to say about the topic. You never do.

I appreciate Pastor Bohr and receive many blessings from his sermons. Traditional Adventist is the original SDA church and I guess we can’t control who subdivides off the church. Not sure why anyone would want to branch off though with this type of reaction- does SEA believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs? Maybe CF can add an SEA option for you.

BobRyan · Jul 18, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
What is Seventh-Day Evangelical? I am not familiar with this denomination.

there are many denominations outside of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

Each is its own established legal entity

icedragon101 said:
Is a sub-branch of the SDA church.

The Seventh-day Adventist denomination is very emphatic about those denominations that are not Seventh-day Adventist not using the name "Seventh-day Adventist".

So then "Seventh-day Baptist" is a great example of not using the name "Seventh-day Adventist"

And "Seventh-day Evangelical" is another great example of not using the name "Seventh-day Adventist"

and there have been a number of law suits by the SDA denomination - to make sure people do not falsely claim that some other denomination is not actually a group INSIDE the actual Seventh-day Adventist church.

BobRyan · Jul 18, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I appreciate Pastor Bohr and receive many blessings from his sermons. Traditional Adventist is the original SDA church and I guess we can’t control who subdivides off the church. Not sure why anyone would want to branch off though with this type of reaction- does SEA believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs? Maybe CF can add an SEA option for you.

Many other denominations exist. But to be WITHIN The seventh-day adventist denomination one has to be SDA -- not some other denomination.

Having said that - INSIDE the SDA denomination there are SDA members claiming to be

Historic SDAs
Conservative SDAs
Moderate SDAs
Progressive SDAs
Liberal SDAs

etc. They all attend the same denominational meeting every 5 years to vote on the same set of Fundamental Beliefs - and there is only one set. Not 5.

So for example I am a Moderate SDA (and I am evangelical within the SDA denomination to the point of having no objection to Questions on Doctrine - for example) and Steven Bohr, and Doug Batchelor are Conservative but there is still only one set of belief statements for this one denomination.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 18, 2021

BobRyan said:
there are many denominations outside of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

Each is its own established legal entity

The Seventh-day Adventist denomination is very emphatic about those denominations that are not Seventh-day Adventist not using the name "Seventh-day Adventist".

So then "Seventh-day Baptist" is a great example of not using the name "Seventh-day Adventist"

And "Seventh-day Evangelical" is another great example of not using the name "Seventh-day Adventist"

and there have been a number of law suits by the SDA denomination - to make sure people do not falsely claim that some other denomination is not actually a group INSIDE the actual Seventh-day Adventist church.

Thats what I figured it is not part of the SDA church. Thanks for clarifying that. Hopefully they can update their profile to reflect the correct denomination. God bless.

BobRyan · Jul 18, 2021

icedragon101 said:
Is a sub-branch of the SDA church. it is different from the main body, which is Conservative SDA, WE insist that the church emphsize 5 pillars. the 5 pillars of Seventh-day Evangelical Adventist (SEA) 1. The need to be born again, 2. a personal relationship with Christ. 3. Biblical-Theological Approach to Biblical interpretation of Scripture. 4. Scripture only as a source of Authority. 5. Accurate Theology in the SDA doctrine.

That is a good example of a set of doctrines not voted on at all as a recognized list of beliefs in the recognized and regular meetings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination itself. (A point which you appear to also agree with) This is not POV or opinion - it is just historic fact.

(And I have never heard of a Bible doctrine called "Accurate theology in Southern Baptist doctrine" nor a Bible doctrine called "Accurate theology in SDA doctrine")

And the SDA denomination is itself an entity - a legal entity - an organization with no sub-denominations as legal entities below it.

I could "say" I am a "Catholic Adventist" as a sub-branch of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination but saying it would not make me a member of the Catholic church nor would it create a sub-denomination within the Seventh-day Adventist denomination , nor would it change the belief statements for Seventh-day Adventists.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 18, 2021

BobRyan said:
Many other denominations exist. But to be WITHIN The seventh-day adventist denomination one has to be SDA -- not some other denomination.

Having said that - INSIDE the SDA denomination there are

Historic SDAs

Conservative SDAs

Moderate SDAs

Progressive SDAs

Liberal SDAs

etc. They all attend the same denominational meeting every 5 years to vote on the same set of Fundamental Beliefs - and there is only one set. Not 5.

So for example I am a Moderate SDA (and I am evangelical within the SDA denomination to the point of having no objection to Questions on Doctrine - for example) and Bohr is Conservative but there is still only one set of belief statements for this one denomination.

I would identify myself more conservative but I eat some lean clean foods so not sure what category I’m in. How long has their been categories? Not sure where I have been, it was just Adventist growing up.

BobRyan · Jul 18, 2021

icedragon101 said:
In Daniel 8:14 the temple/sanctuary/holy place is trampled for 2300 day. What does the term for temple/sanctuary/holy place mean. the term is "qodesh"? is it the whole system or is it the 1st apartment. Daniel 8:14 Interlinear: And he saith unto me, Till evening -- morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.

Strong's Hebrew: 6944. קֹ֫דֶשׁ (qodesh) -- 464 Occurrences

The term itself is non specific. Hebrew is a "high context language" so the same word can have many meanings depending on context.

NAS Word Usage - Total: 431consecrated 2, consecrated thing 1, consecrated things 2, dedicated 1, dedicated gifts 2, dedicated things 5, holiness 9, Holy 6, holy 263, holies 6, holy ones 1, holy portion 3, holy thing 2, holy things 12, most holy 25, most holy place 6, most holy things 6, sacred 2, sacred gifts 2, sacred things 3, sacrifices 1, sacrificial 1, sanctuary 65, set apart 1, thing most holy 2, things that are most holy 1, things dedicated 1

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I appreciate Pastor Bohr and receive many blessings from his sermons. Traditional Adventist is the original SDA church and I guess we can’t control who subdivides off the church. Not sure why anyone would want to branch off though with this type of reaction- does SEA believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs? Maybe CF can add an SEA option for you.

23/28

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

it would be nice to move part of this thread to another thread called "What is a Seventh-day Evangelical Adventist" since this is really about Daniel 8:14.

Adventist Heretic · Jul 18, 2021

Here is a basic summary of the different branches

Historic/Traditionalist SDAs: WM views + ALL EGW writings + IJ 1844 + Perfection + 1000 year review + LGT + Trial of God + Sunday Law + Historicim + Covenant Theology
Conservative SDAs: WM views + EGW writings Conflict of the ages series, S2C, COL, TMB +IJ + 1844+ 1000 year review + Trial of God + Sunday Law + Historicism + Covenant Theology + Questions on Doctrines.
Evangelical SDA : Biblical Theology + Historicism + Covenant Theology + 1000 years on Earth + Evangleical view of Sanctuary - NO Ellen white - NO IJ - NO 1844 - LGT
Moderate SDAs - Conservative SDA - 1 or 2 doctrinal disagreements
Feast Keeping SDA: they are traditionalist or conservatives who practice the Jewish Festivals. if they accept Evangelical SDA theology they are Messianic SDA
Progressive/Liberal/ Cultural SDAs - vairation of the same strip, born into SDA, but not converted. they take their social and moral values from the world, they support Lgbtq+, CRT, Social justice, Evoloution, they like the cultural of the sda chruch because it gives them an identity and has many benifit. If you compare them with Judahism they would be considered Liberal non religious Jews.

William Millers Theology was an attempt or proto-type of What is now know as Biblical Theology. Biblical Theology is a Systematic and Thematic approach to Biblical Interpretation.. Biblical Theology translates the Bible by using the Old Testament as the foundation of interpretation of the New Testament. It is based on the Statement in Luke 24 about Jesus approach in explaining to the disciples about Messiah's work. "Starting with Moses & the Prophets he reasoned all things concerning Himself". Over the last 50 years a body of theology has been developed using this method. Historicism, and Covenant Theology are types of Biblical Theology.

etc. They all attend the same denominational meeting every 5 years to vote on the same set of Fundamental Beliefs - and there is only one set. Not 5.

So for example I am a Moderate SDA (and I am evangelical within the SDA denomination to the point of having no objection to Questions on Doctrine - for example) and Steven Bohr, and Doug Batchelor are Conservative but there is still only one set of belief statements for this one denomination.

again you prove you don't know what you are talking about and are making up reality. you like to make up your definition of things. You are not a moderate you are a conservative. Stephen Bohr is a Traditionalist and Doug has gone from Evangelical to Conservative to Traditionalist.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 19, 2021

icedragon101 said:
23/28

I don't think it's part of the SDA church than as all SDA churches required the 28 fundamental beliefs. This seems to be a stand alone church that has taken some of the SDA church teaching and is its own entity and nothing to do with the SDA church entity.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 19, 2021

icedragon101 said:
Here is a basic summary of the different branches

Historic/Traditionalist SDAs: WM views + ALL EGW writings + IJ 1844 + Perfection + 1000 year review + LGT + Trial of God + Sunday Law + Historicim + Covenant Theology

Conservative SDAs: WM views + EGW writings Conflict of the ages series, S2C, COL, TMB +IJ + 1844+ 1000 year review + Trial of God + Sunday Law + Historicism + Covenant Theology + Questions on Doctrines.

Evangelical SDA : Biblical Theology + Historicism + Covenant Theology + 1000 years on Earth + Evangleical view of Sanctuary - NO Ellen white - NO IJ - NO 1844 - LGT

Moderate SDAs - Conservative SDA - 1 or 2 doctrinal disagreements

Feast Keeping SDA: they are traditionalist or conservatives who practice the Jewish Festivals. if they accept Evangelical SDA theology they are Messianic SDA

Progressive/Liberal/ Cultural SDAs - vairation of the same strip, born into SDA, but not converted. they take their social and moral values from the world, they support Lgbtq+, CRT, Social justice, Evoloution, they like the cultural of the sda chruch because it gives them an identity and has many benifit. If you compare them with Judahism they would be considered Liberal non religious Jews.

William Millers Theology was an attempt or proto-type of What is now know as Biblical Theology. Biblical Theology is a Systematic and Thematic approach to Biblical Interpretation.. Biblical Theology translates the Bible by using the Old Testament as the foundation of interpretation of the New Testament. It is based on the Statement in Luke 24 about Jesus approach in explaining to the disciples about Messiah's work. "Starting with Moses & the Prophets he reasoned all things concerning Himself". Over the last 50 years a body of theology has been developed using this method. Historicism, and Covenant Theology are types of Biblical Theology.

again you prove you don't know what you are talking about and are making up reality. you like to make up your definition of things. You are not a moderate you are a conservative. Stephen Bohr is a Traditionalist and Doug has gone from Evangelical to Conservative to Traditionalist.

I have personally attended Doug's church for over 30+ years until a recent move (I did fall a way for a while, but started attending from 1993 at Central SDA to 2021 at his new Granite Bay SDA church and in-between). I have not noticed any major shifts in what Doug preaches, so I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion you are about his doctrinal changes.

Adventist Heretic · Jul 19, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I have personally attended Doug's church for over 30+ years until a recent move (I did fall a way for a while, but started attending from 1993 at Central SDA to 2021 at his new Granite Bay SDA church and in-between). I have not noticed any major shifts in what Doug preaches, so I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion you are about his doctrinal changes.

I have known Doug since 1987. He is personally responsible for me being baptized. He is different now. He was more open back then and he emphasized different things. You are right there are may not be major shifts, that is the problems, these are subtle shifts. If you don't know what you are looking for you will miss them. sometimes it is what they don't say. in 2014 he came out against women's ordination and demonized anyone who disagreed with him. 1987 Doug would not have done that. that is a change. He would have said they are christian with a different opinion, one he thought was wrong, but he would not have said they were not trying to be follow the Lord.

Daniel 8:14 holy place or sanctuary?

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