Whom was Cain made by in Gen 4 who is the Lord in the Bible...

MMXX said:

If angels on earth are that much different from us, then how is it that people have entertained them in their homes and not noticed any difference according to Hebrews 13:2?

The Bible makes it clear that angels appear in human form to interact with people, and human form is human form.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the extrabiblical source called Targum of Onkelos. I just know the Bible. And in the Bible, "sons of God" only occurs five times in the Old Testament.

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Genesis 6:2

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. Job 2:1

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7

I'm pretty sure it's a given that the sons of God in Job are angels.

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Job is describing a cosmic gathering---leaders from other worlds---Satan went there as the king of this world.

The Targums are the Hebrew scriptures that came into being at the time of the Babylonian exile. The Jews got so they were loosing their Hebrew tongue and the Targums were meticulously transcribed scripture translated into Aramaic---always read in the Hebrew out loud first, then read in Aramaic. The earliest date from just at the end of the Babylonian exile.

Angels can work all sorts of miracles. beyond what we are able to do---that just makes the difference between us that much more evident! They can "Appear" to look like men, we can not appear to look like angels!! These are the descriptions of certain angels---they are cherubim---they stand before God--they hide the light of God from the other angels, Lucifer was one of the covering cherubs. -most are described with wings-----what happens to those wings when they take on our appearance? We certainly can't develop wings---and not one of those angel-hybrids are described as having wings. They had anywhere from 2 to 6 wings.
Isa_6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Eze 10:14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

It does not describe what the face of the cherub actually looked like.

These are creatures that can tolerate the light of God---even Moses face shone so bright that the Israelites asked Moses to hide his face in a veil from them for they could not stand the light of his face.

the creatures in |Ezek had 4 faces, you think you're pretty close to that do you? Hah! Several times those who have seen angels in their unhidden form have fallen face down to the ground in terror.

1Ch 21:14 So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.
1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1Ch_21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.

Yah--right, not much difference!

mmksparbud said:

Job is describing a cosmic gathering---leaders from other worlds---Satan went there as the king of this world...

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Uh oh. This whole time I didn't notice you were SDA I usually avoid what amounts to arguing with the rather unusual views of Ellen White.

MMXX said:

Uh oh. This whole time I didn't notice you were SDA I usually avoid what amounts to arguing with the rather unusual views of Ellen White.

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So lemme review the logic here. Angels can pass for human if they want to. Therefore they can mate with humans and produce offspring. It would also follow, then, that humans, being at least in some cases, indistinguishable from angels, and also being able to conceive offspring with them, should also have all the powers and abilities of angels.

Marc Munday said:

Genesis 1: God (Father God)
Spirit of God (Holy Spirit)

Genesis 2: Lord God (Jesus Christ)

Genesis 3: Lord God (Jesus Christ)
God (Father God)

Genesis 4 Lord (Satan?) Helped produce Cain......
God (Father God) helped produce Seth after Abel was killed.

Thankyou for your replies Job chapter one proves that I am wrong but its not about being right its about asking and finding the truth:

Job1:6:2-8
2 When the day came for the heavenly beings1.6: heavenly beings: Supernatural beings who serve God in heaven. to appear before the Lord, Satan1.6: Satan: A supernatural being whose name indicates he was regarded as the opponent of human beings. was there among them. 7The Lord asked him, “What have you been doing?”
Satan answered, “I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth.”
8“Did you notice my servant Job?” the Lord asked. “There is no one on earth as faithful and good as he is. He worships me and is careful not to do anything evil.”

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Please let me show you my understanding of those uses of titles for God:

Genesis chapter one: "God" is the Spirit, Father God, and the other Person of God who later entered human flesh to become Jesus, who is clearly involved in that creation, as John reveals in John 1:1-5. In other words, the first Person of God (Father) is the Divine Source of all creation; the second Person, the Agent; and the Holy Spirit, the divine Facilitator.

Also, for our salvation, the first Person is the Source; the second, the Agent; and the Spirit, the Facilitator. Look at John 3:16-18 and 14:15-21.

Finally, for our sanctification (spiritual growth), the first Person is the Source; the second Person, the Agent; and the third, the direct Facilitator. The Book of Acts shows the Spirit's work to begin and grow God's church from the Father through Jesus.

My point is that the three Persons of the one God work together in perfect harmony to move his rebuilding work in believers' lives forward. Satan has nothing to do with that work but tries to attack and hinder God's work, as the passage from Job shows. However, notice also from that passage that Satan can do only what God allows him to do, resulting in his people's spiritual growth and benefit.

MMXX said:

This whole thing is pretty mysterious. For instance did God turn Satan into a snake? Or was it some creature that Satan was working through that God transformed? And many have postulated that Genesis 6:1-4 is about fallen angels impregnating women which resulted in a race of giants called the Nephilim. I take these things with a grain of salt, but I think it's fun to discuss.

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However, the previous chapters show that the believing line of Seth through Enoch (the sons of God) mixed sexually with the unbelieving line of Cain through Lamech (daughters of men). Thus, blameless (fully committed to God) Noah and his family were left because the intermarriage of the two geneological lines produced a violent, wicked humanity. Then, God gave humanity 120 years to repent while Noah and his family built the ark.

MMXX said:

Uh oh. This whole time I didn't notice you were SDA I usually avoid what amounts to arguing with the rather unusual views of Ellen White.

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My views are not the views of EGW. Believe it or not---I get my views from the bible---I have not once argued with a reply from her writings, only from scripture. You argue not against her but against scripture. You are free to believe whatever you want.

Bruce Leiter said:

However, the previous chapters show that the believing line of Seth through Enoch (the sons of God) mixed sexually with the unbelieving line of Cain through Lamech (daughters of men). Thus, blameless (fully committed to God) Noah and his family were left because the intermarriage of the two geneological lines produced a violent, wicked humanity. Then, God gave humanity 120 years to repent while Noah and his family built the ark.

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I agree.

However there's also the serpent seed doctrine which claims Cain was literally Satan's offspring.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Genesis 3:15

Which takes us back to the OP asking whom was Cain made by

mmksparbud said:

My views are not the views of EGW. Believe it or not---I get my views from the bible---I have not once argued with a reply from her writings, only from scripture. You argue not against her but against scripture. You are free to believe whatever you want.

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Your comment about the leaders of other planets is an EGW thing. And then there's her book "The Truth About Angels". Which is fine. But I'd have to read her material first to be able to keep up with it.

Jipsah said:

So lemme review the logic here. Angels can pass for human if they want to. Therefore they can mate with humans and produce offspring. It would also follow, then, that humans, being at least in some cases, indistinguishable from angels, and also being able to conceive offspring with them, should also have all the powers and abilities of angels.

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Probably not because humans are mortal and earthbound. Basically the angels are like what humans will become. "They will be like the angels in heaven". Also I think the scenario suggests this is something that only could have happened pre-flood, when humans had 900 year lifespans and who knows what other differences. But this is all pure speculation with little to base it on.

Personally I think the "sons of God" were most likely simply the line of Seth.

MMXX said:

Your comment about the leaders of other planets is an EGW thing. And then there's her book "The Truth About Angels". Which is fine. But I'd have to read her material to be able to have a common frame of reference.

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It is a scriptural thing. Satan is the ruler of this world. This was obviously a gathering of beings of leadership. That's why Satan went there. He had the right to do so after Adam and Eve gave him dominion over this earth.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Satan declares he came from walking around the earth---surveying his domain. Sons of God presenting themselves before the Lord. A meeting, kjif S
Sons of God presenting themselves before the Lord---meeting with God---Satan is there also---why?---he had a claim to the earth, no reason to doubt that the others were there because they also had claims on other worlds---they, however, were not fallen from God as Satan was. Satan and his angels were the only ones that fell. Seems as though, had Adam not fallen---he would have been there representing earth.

Besides, the discussion was on angels breeding with humans, not Job.

mmksparbud said:

It is a scriptural thing. Satan is the ruler of this world. This was obviously a gathering of beings of leadership. That's why Satan went there. He had the right to do so after Adam and Eve gave him dominion over this earth.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Satan declares he came from walking around the earth---surveying his domain. Sons of God presenting themselves before the Lord. A meeting, kjif S
Sons of God presenting themselves before the Lord---meeting with God---Satan is there also---why?---he had a claim to the earth, no reason to doubt that the others were there because they also had claims on other worlds---they, however, were not fallen from God as Satan was. Satan and his angels were the only ones that fell. Seems as though, had Adam not fallen---he would have been there representing earth.

Besides, the discussion was on angels breeding with humans, not Job.

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As far as I know that's SDA perspective based on EGW's interpretation of scripture. Three Angels' Messages - Wikipedia. Details — The Truth About Angels — Ellen G. White Writings

One thing I feel fairly certain of, is that the pre-flood world and the people it it, were quite different.

MMXX said:

As far as I know that's SDA perspective based on EGW's interpretation of scripture. Three Angels' Messages - Wikipedia. Details — The Truth About Angels — Ellen G. White Writings

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Again ---=I Used only scripture---you're the one that brought her into a discussion of Gen 6. You also brought up Job. But I understand. It is a very old ploy=--=-when the going gets tough, all of a sudden people bring her in where she has not been mentioned before. It's a way to get out of further discussion. That's OK---I'm used to it. I will get off this thread. I do not get into arguments about her, unless that is the topic, and it certainly wasn't. Bye. Unwatching this thread.

Most everyone posts opinions, theories, doctrine, theology and dogma that uses scripture.