If Heaven is paradise, why can't I bring certain things with me?

VCR-2000 said:

If Heaven is paradise and if we still have our free will, then why is it that I can't bring certain things I had here into Heaven that God doesn't approve of for some reason? I mean, obviously I don't mean very evil desires like the desire to kill or abuse, but it seems that Jesus said you could not take individual status and wealth with you or even your romantic kind of relationships you had down here.

It just fills me with believing that this life is pointless then. I didn't have to go through the trouble of being born in this existence and grow to appreciate things about me here only to realize it's just temporary and you will never see them again for the rest of eternity.

It also implies that everyone is equal to everyone else in talents and social status, so static and meaningless that nothing matters. I can't stop believing that Heaven sounds like it's God's property only, we are his sovereign property and our free will is only an illusion or mere shadow. And we are even just used by Him to execute only His plan/will. He is the owner of Heaven and he can decide what we think, interact, possessions, etc. there.

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Nope, that's not the reason why.
The reason is two fold.
1.What we have here on Earth is just a shadow of what we will have in heaven.
2. The values in Heaven are different than they are on Earth.
Take gold, for instance: On Earth it is a precious metal, and worth lots of money.
In Heaven it is pavement that we walk on.

Quite simply, heaven will far exceed anything here. Even the greatest of treasures in tis life will be worthless in heaven. I think even most of the church dont have any grasp of what heaven will be like. To be in the prescence of God and His perfect love will be unlike anything you have experienced. It would be like a beggar wanting to take his old rags of clothes with him and going to live in a palace as a king.

As the others have said. But look at it in a different more human way: When you were 3 years old you would want to have 300 chocolate cakes and perhaps a few teddy bears to make you happy (seemingly forever). Now you are more advanced, yes? Is the 3 year old's wishes and wants still proper for the advanced you?
The "you" in the presence of God is FAR FAR FAR more advanced.

Make sense?

VCR-2000 said:

If Heaven is paradise and if we still have our free will, then why is it that I can't bring certain things I had here into Heaven that God doesn't approve of for some reason? I mean, obviously I don't mean very evil desires like the desire to kill or abuse, but it seems that Jesus said you could not take individual status and wealth with you or even your romantic kind of relationships you had down here.

It just fills me with believing that this life is pointless then. I didn't have to go through the trouble of being born in this existence and grow to appreciate things about me here only to realize it's just temporary and you will never see them again for the rest of eternity.

It also implies that everyone is equal to everyone else in talents and social status, so static and meaningless that nothing matters. I can't stop believing that Heaven sounds like it's God's property only, we are his sovereign property and our free will is only an illusion or mere shadow. And we are even just used by Him to execute only His plan/will. He is the owner of Heaven and he can decide what we think, interact, possessions, etc. there.

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You won't remember any of this anyway, memories are stored in the body, and you need to die before entering paradise.

This matters now, but not so much then.

All one needs is God.

Let's look at it in human terms. Look at how many millions of people have left everything behind to come to America where there is promise of a better life than they left behind?

Maybe it's like a farmer who gets cream from his cows and grows his wheat. And while he is doing his hard work to produce these things, he can get sweaty and smell like cow manure. But this means he has worked honestly; so these things might be a prize to him. And he loves his cows and field and the manure which helps prepare the ground.

But there is going to be a wedding and he is invited. And they are going to use his milk and wheat to make the wedding cake. What comes out will not look like what went in!

And he will change into different clothes, after getting washed up.

He does not want to bring raw milk and unhusked wheat to the wedding. The manure has helped him so much; but no he won't bring the manure to the wedding, though it helped to produce the cream and wheat to be used to make the wedding cake. And he does not want to bring the sweat and smell of the manure, though these mean he has lived a life of honorable work and providing for his family. Those might have been fine with him while he was on this earth, but in heaven where the wedding is, and the cake . . . there are things to leave behind

Of course, on this earth, we have had some things which we have so loved, but they have not been about caring for others, but only about pleasures we have wanted for our own selves. Such treasure pleasures might seem so convincing now, but living in God's love and sharing as His family helps prepare us for Heaven.

VCR-2000 said:

The Europeans came to America because they were escaping kings who were not allowing them to have free expression or to practice what religion they wanted and they wanted to be free of that. The kings are more of an analogue here to God.

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The Europeans of the 1600s didn't come in empty handed, so they're not the immigrants I'm talking about.

VCR-2000 said:

But God is the only supreme all-powerful being with no other competition and he is in theory able to punish wicked people here and now but instead wills that we be patient and he will get to them "eventually".

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I will offer >

Wrong people pay for their sins, right away, because it keeps them away from all the good they could have with God . . . now . . . and with others who are capable of loving. Even "little" sins can have us missing out on so much.

In fact . . . wouldn't you say? from observation? . . . that while people do what is wrong, they hurt their own selves so they miss out on how nicely they could be doing things they like. Look at how marriages go downhill, as ones get into fighting and spiting . . . after things were going so nicely, at first.

They are getting their own selves into more and more deep punishment, even. And God can be somehow punishing them, though it might not be obvious.

If all you do is take a step toward a malaria infested swamp, just that little step is away from how you could be in your ranch enjoying your family . . . even if that little misstep does not get you infected and suffering and dying of malaria.

So, then, a lot of little sins can add up.

So, this is why Jesus gives us lessons about what needs to be going on in our hearts and minds: because where our attention is going can have a lot to do with where we will be flowing.

So, as far as what will be in Heaven is concerned . . . the Bible does say God "gives us richly all things to enjoy" (in 1 Timothy 6:17) > we can enjoy things we have here, but enjoying needs to mean without things owning us and controlling us. At the same time it is wise to have our attention in the right place, I mean concerning what really matters and what will last.

We can get so attached to things that can not love us. They could give us pleasure, but this can keep our attention away from how now we can share with God and discover loving as family with His people. And even loving problem people and impossible people, I am finding, is very special. Because I am sharing with God and how He has me loving.

So . . . I think . . . I hope . . . you have experienced how family sharing can be so more special than any of your personal pleasures could be. But we humans can spoil ourselves from how we could be loving, and with this we can resort to pets and pleasures for some kind of comfort and enjoyment. But with God we can be strong in love so we can stay kind and comforted even while ones close to us can get the wrong way. And if . . . when . . . we ourselves also fail, God can get us back into ever better loving.

VCR-2000 said:

So yeah, I will get what is pretty much a spiritual lobotomy too. I guess I didn't go up to Heaven then, a lobotomized and brainwashed version of me did.

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It's a new body, so you make new memories.

Death isn't a lobotomy, but the idea is poetic.

You can bring other people with you by getting them saved.

Michael Collum said:

You won't remember any of this anyway, memories are stored in the body, and you need to die before entering paradise.

This matters now, but not so much then.

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I dont agree on that one. You will remember everything, even stuff you dont remember now. As an example of someone who remembers The rich man and Lazarus talks of his life here, in Revelation it talks about the saints asking when they will be avenged as they remember their being killed and Im sure there are others in the Bible.

VCR-2000 said:

I wanted to also put it this way. If I ask and have a dream of a specific kind of house in mind, a small ranch, I could just get that small ranch and nothing more or less..

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If you haven't read it already, I'd suggest you get hold of a copy of CS Lewis "The Great Divorce". It puts in literary form the sort of question you're asking, except that in the story the main character has died, and doesn't realise it.

When he gets to heaven, everything is so overpowering all the things he's left behind are mere shadows.

Bob Crowley said:

If you haven't read it already, I'd suggest you get hold of a copy of CS Lewis "The Great Divorce". It puts in literary form the sort of question you're asking, except that in the story the main character has died, and doesn't realise it.

When he gets to heaven, everything is so overpowering all the things he's left behind are mere shadows.

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In addition to this fantastic work by Lewis, I'd also recommend N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope, as it stresses the importance of having a proper theology of eschatology. Namely: What is commonly meant by "heaven" (that something-or-other that happens after death) isn't the Christian hope, the resurrection and the renewal of all creation is the Christian hope. "Heaven" is simply the waiting lobby, the holdover station, a kind of rest at a park along the journey.

We should not imagine that the good that is present here in this world doesn't have a place in that future world, because it does. The matter is in thinking that our trite rust-ridden treasures here are what actually matters when they don't. Having a nice house is meaningless, housing the homeless actually does mean something.

-CryptoLutheran