Sidon

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Here is how you exist in eternal/everlasting peace with God.

Just do this.....

Jesus said "" You must be born again".

If you do that...if you will receive Christ as your Savior by faith, then God promises you that you will have it.

Now, lets look at some verses..

"""""And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But JESUS, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

14 For by one offering >he hath perfected forever< them that are sanctified.

Notice, that Paul is teaching that the Cross is the Lord sacrificing once Sacrifice for sins...>FOREVER. """""

See that?

That is the blood of Jesus and the death of Christ, that remains always a eternal one time sacrifice for all your sin, if you are born again. And if you are not, then this offer of eternal forgiveness is waiting to become this for you.

Notice verse 14.... Paul teaches that those who are "perfected forever are sanctified", not by works, not by commandment keeping, not by Mary, not by self effort, not by water baptism or the Eucharist or Sacraments, but ONLY BY THE "One time SACRIFICE" = of The Lord Jesus on The Cross.
------------------------------------------------

Now, here are more of the wonders of God's Gift of Salvation, that is Christ on the Cross. It these...

"""""And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.""""" "being now made free from sin""

Do you see those? And if you turn to Romans 4:8, you'll see this TRUTH explained as God not charging sin to the born again, ever again.

And now, here is another wonder of the Cross, that is the "Gift of Salvation".

Look at this wonder...

""""Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ""""

Notice reader..the verse says....>"we HAVE PEACE with God"...and how?

= "through our Lord, Jesus Christ".

See that "Peace WITH GOD"? that the born again "HAVE"?

Notice that this eternal peace is not based on what you do, but its only based on "through our Lord, Jesus Christ'.

Now the way to see this revelation, is like this...... God is always kept at peace with His Born again, "through Christ".. through the blood of Jesus, that is: "The one time Sacrifice" """"that has perfected forever them that are born again,"" (sanctified).

What does this mean?
It means, Reader, that once you are born again, then the blood of Jesus, through the eternal Spirit of Christ, always keeps God in perfect peace with you.

You dont do that..... Its the Blood of Jesus, and the death of Christ that is the only REASON that God is forever in everlasting peace with all His born again, "new Creation" in Christ.
 
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BobRyan

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You will never be able to lock God in a box nor delete your own free will and its consequences.

Romans 11 makes that clear -
Rom 11:
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. ... 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave lest after I have preached the Gospel to others, I myself should be disqualified from it.
 
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BobRyan

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John 3:36

Is not a God-boxed-in text -- as we saw here.

Romans 11 makes that clear -
Rom 11:
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. ... 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave lest after I have preached the Gospel to others, I myself should be disqualified from it.

People sometimes hope that the first part of John 3:36 will help them out of the problem they have with Rom 11 and 1 Cor 9 (and Christ's teaching of "forgiveness revoked" at the end of Matt 18) - but it does not work that way.

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

It does not say "He who believes the son will always believe"
It does not say "He who obeys the Son will always obey"
It does not say "He who used to believe the Son still has eternal life"
It does not say "He who used to obey - still has eternal life"

Rather it is he who is currently obeying

Rom 2:13
 
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Sidon

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Is not a God-boxed-in text -- as we saw here.

Bob, let me show you a way to escape your legalism.

Its this..

To escape hell, you have to gain a new spiritual father.
See, all unbelievers, DIE, and then end up with their Father.

Jesus said....."YOU are of YOUR Father THE Devil".
See that , Bob?
Thats a reality check, isn't it?

So, if that does not change, then hell awaits all THOSE.

Now, you've heard of the NT phrase......"BORN Again"?

You've heard of this Bob?

This means that God offers , through Christ the only way to be born again , so that by this new birth, the person become a SON< of a NEW FATHER.

See that, Bob?

If a person does not obey Christ....."you must be born again", then when they die and they will end up up with their father......and that is not found as heaven..
Believe it.

Do you See now why being BORN AGAIN, has nothing to do with self effort or commandment keeping, or the law, or mary, or sacraments or water baptism?

Its right there in front of your EYES.
Can you see it yet?
 
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BobRyan

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To escape hell, you have to gain a new spiritual father.
See, all unbelievers, DIE, and then end up with their Father.

Jesus said....."YOU are of YOUR Father THE Devil".

Fine. But the actual context on this thread is that of a saved person. The question is not "how does a lost person continue to be lost" - rather it is about a saved person having eternal everlasting peace.. a statement about what that person will choose in the future (unless their free will has been deleted of course).

Now, you've heard of the NT phrase......"BORN Again"?

You've heard of this Bob?

I have also heard of "New Creation" 2 Cor 5.

Lucifer "was created perfect" Ezek 28.
Adam was "created perfect" Gen 2

Having God as their father and being created perfect "did not delete their free will"

This is irrefutable.

Rom 10 shows us what "results in salvation"

9 .. if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The born-again experience is in response to something - it is in response to the "appeal to God for a clean conscience"

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

==========================

If God was randomly zapping the lost who simply wake up one morning to "discover" that sure enough they are born again Christians - then it is robot-world and all the robots are simply doing whatever they were programmed to do.

By contrast Is 5:4 reveals an entirely different reality as does John 1:11

Is 5:4 “What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

John 1:11 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.

That is not a mechanism that can exist in robot-world.
 
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Danthemailman

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John 3:36
In regards to John 3:36, legalists prefer to write a blank check with the word “obey” from the NAS translation of the Bible then fill in whatever amount of “works” they feel are necessary to obtain or maintan salvation. Some “add” water baptism while others add law keeping etc..

Now in regards to "does not obey the Son" in the NAS translation in John 3:36, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is based on the merits of our obedience/works which “follows” believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience/works the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely."

So in John 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to disobey the Son by refusing to believe in the Son. This fits perfectly with John 3:15,16,18 etc.. So John is not teaching salvation by works or type 2 works salvation here.
 
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Sidon

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In regards to John 3:36, legalists prefer to write a blank check with the word “obey”.

To "obey the Son" is to do the "work of God".

Its this...>"the work of God is that you believe in Jesus, whom God sent".

If you dont, you are this..... John 3:36
 
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Sidon

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Unless you believe the Word of God is "legalism" then quoting and affirming it -- is not.

The point remains.

Legalism is a person trying to do by self effort, what Christ on the Cross has accomplished, already.
 
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Sidon

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Having God as their father and being created perfect "did not delete their free will"

Free will can't end being born.

Let me show you.
Decide today that you will no longer be born of your mother.
Go ahead and decide that.

How'd that work out?

So, if you can understand that you can't stop being born by a choice. then you can begin to understand why you can't stop being born again by a choice.

Im not saying that you will ever understand this, i'm only stating that if you could understand this, then you be able to see what it means to be "BORN".
 
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Sidon

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Now in regards to "does not obey the Son" in the NAS translation in John 3:36, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is based on the merits of our obedience/works which “follows” believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son.

Exactly.

Jesus Himself is Salvation.
The Cross is how He provided it.
If we BELIEVE........= then Jesus Himself who is RIGHTEOUSNESS, becomes ours.
We join Him Spiritually, as "in Christ" and "One with God".
 
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BobRyan

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Free will can't end being born.

Or even "being created" -- it does not "uncreate someone"

Adam was created "the son of God" - God's child, God's family in terms of devotion love and acceptance.
Luke 3:38"Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."

Lucifer was one of the "sons of God" in heaven as an angel before he fell.

Adam and Eve did not need to be "un-created" or "un-the-son-of-God" to become lost

So, if you can understand that you can't stop being born by a choice even as in Adam's case when he then became lost and in need of Gospel salvation , yet was not also "un-created" -- then you can begin to understand why someone who is born-again can become lost.

It's a fun game with words I will admit - but the Bible does not support that game.
 
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BobRyan

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Legalism is a person trying to do by self effort, what Christ on the Cross has accomplished, already.

Fine. But it is NOT submitting to the Word of God and refusing to take God's name in vain.

Which is the point here.
 
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BobRyan

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If you see Rom 11 and 1 Cor 9 posted and the details in the text itself make you respond "That's legalism" you have the wrong definition for it.

You will never be able to lock God in a box nor delete your own free will and its consequences.

Romans 11 makes that clear -
Rom 11:
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. ... 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave lest after I have preached the Gospel to others, I myself should be disqualified from it.
 
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Sidon

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So, if you can understand that you can't stop being born by a choice even as in Adam's case when he then became lost

You do not realize that "adam" was not born again.
So, when you compare "fallen adam" with a born again believer, and can't understand the difference, as you can't , then this explain quite a bit that is related to your defiant legalism.
 
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BobRyan

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You do not realize that "adam" was not born again.

You don't understand - Adam was not only created directly by God as a direct result of God's supernatural work in creating him as "the son of God" as Luke 3 says - he was also WITHOUT a sinful nature at all.

So when God does the supernatural work of ADDING to our being with our existing sinful nature - the NEW-creation new-nature of the Christian - it is then with BOTH natures that we "live at war" described in Rom 7, and we "die daily".

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully agree with the law of God in the inner person, 23 but I see a different law in the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin, the law which is in my body’s parts.

So, when you compare "unfallen adam" with a born again believer, and can't understand the difference, as you can't , then this explain quite a bit that is related to the problems in your argument so far.

You will never be able to lock God in a box nor delete your own free will and its consequences.

Romans 11 makes that clear -
Rom 11:
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. ... 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave lest after I have preached the Gospel to others, I myself should be disqualified from it.

yeah -- that said

1 Cor 9:
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. ... 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave lest after I have preached the Gospel to others, I myself should be disqualified from it.
 
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Sidon

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You don't understand - Adam was not only created directly by God as a direct result of God's supernatural work in creating him as "the son of God" as Luke 3 says - he was also WITHOUT a sinful nature at all.

You should study my Thread, (if its still here), regarding what it means to be born again.
I teach about all that you are seeking to understand, regarding the 1st and 2nd Adam.

Go here :

From the Fall to " Reconciled "in Christ"
 
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BobRyan

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So when God does the supernatural work of ADDING to our being with our existing sinful nature - the NEW-creation new-nature of the Christian - it is then with BOTH natures that we "live at war" described in Rom 7, and we "die daily".

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully agree with the law of God in the inner person, 23 but I see a different law in the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin, the law which is in my body’s parts.

You should study my Thread, (if its still here), regarding what it means to be born again.
I teach about all that you are seeking to understand, regarding the 1st and 2nd Adam.

I am pretty much focused on Paul's statement about it in Rom 7 and 2 Cor 5.
 
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