Daniel 8:14 holy place or sanctuary?

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Adventist Heretic

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ViaCrucis

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In Daniel 8:14 the temple/sanctuary/holy place is trampled for 2300 day. What does the term for temple/sanctuary/holy place mean. the term is "qodesh"? is it the whole system or is it the 1st apartment. Daniel 8:14 Interlinear: And he saith unto me, Till evening -- morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.

Strong's Hebrew: 6944. קֹ֫דֶשׁ (qodesh) -- 464 Occurrences

The Qodesh (the Holy) was the sanctuary of the Temple, in which also there was the Quodesh Ha-Quadashim, "the Holy of Holies", the inner sanctum of the Temple. Only the kohenim, the priests, could enter into the Qodesh The Holy Place, and even then, only the Kohen Gadol, the high priest could enter into the Qodesh Ha-Quadashim, the Most Holy Place. See Exodus 26:33

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ligurian

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In Daniel 8:14 the temple/sanctuary/holy place is trampled for 2300 day. What does the term for temple/sanctuary/holy place mean. the term is "qodesh"? is it the whole system or is it the 1st apartment. Daniel 8:14 Interlinear: And he saith unto me, Till evening -- morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.

Strong's Hebrew: 6944. קֹ֫דֶשׁ (qodesh) -- 464 Occurrences

Daniel 8:8 And the he-goat grew exceedingly great: and when he was strong, his great horn was broken; and four other horns rose up in its place toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth one strong horn, and it grew very great toward the south, and toward the host: 10 and it magnified itself to the host of heaven; and there fell to the earth some of the host of heaven and of the stars, and they trampled on them. 11 And this shall be until the chief captain shall have delivered the captivity: and by reason of him the sacrifice was disturbed, and he prospered; and the holy place shall be made desolate. 12 And a sin-offering was given for the sacrifice, and righteousness was cast down to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 And I heard one saint speaking, and a saint said to a certain one speaking, How long shall the vision continue, even the removal of the sacrifice, and the bringing in of the sin of desolation; and how long shall the sanctuary and host be trampled? 14 And he said to him, Evening and morning there shall be two thousand and four hundred days; and then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.LXX

The holy place is Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Jeremias 7:21 Thus saith the Lord, Gather your whole-burnt-offerings with your meat-offerings, and eat flesh. 22 For I spoke not to your fathers, and commanded them not in the day wherein I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, concerning whole-burnt-offerings and sacrifice: 23 but I commanded them this thing, saying, Hear ye my voice, and I will be to you a God, and ye shall be to me a people: and walk ye in all my ways which I shall command you, that it may be well with you. ... 34 And I will destroy out of the cities of Juda, and the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of them that make merry, and the voice of them that rejoice, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride; for the whole land shall become a desolation.
 
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ViaCrucis

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so it is referring to the 1st apartment?

The vision, as explained later in the chapter, is what would occur: the coalition of Medes and Persians would conquer the Babylonian Empire, and the Persian Empire would fall to the Greeks (Alexander the Great), out of which came the Hellenic kingdoms of the Diadochi (Alexander's empire was divided among his generals after his death). The two most important of these were the Ptolemies who ruled Egypt, and the Seleucids who ruled Syria. The "king of the north" mentioned in Daniel refers to the Seleucids, while the "king of the south" the Ptolemies, a reference the Syrian Wars which were fought between these two Hellenic kingdoms, with Judea caught in the middle.

Judea was under the control of the Ptolemies from Egypt, who basically left the Jews alone to conduct their own affairs; however when the new Seleucid ruler, Antiochus IV took the throne, his campaign against Ptolemaic Egypt resulted in the conquest and capture of Judea. Antiochus tried to force the Jews to become Hellenized, and so he forbade circumcision, forbade resting on the Sabbath, and then the greatest offense was the desecration of the Temple, the "abomination that causes desolation" or "the desolating sacrilege". This occurred when Antiochus had a pig sacrificed in the Holy of Holies in honor of Zeus.

This desecration of the Holy Place or Sanctuary, the Temple as a whole really, would last a certain amount of time until it would be restored, rededicated to God. The restoration of the Temple is celebrated every year by Jews all around the world as the eight-day feast of Hannukkah, the "Festival of Lights" which remembers the miracle of when the oil of the menorah kept burning for eight nights even though there was only enough oil for one night. This was during the Maccabean Revolt, led by Judas Maccabeus, which succeeded in overthrowing the Seleucid yoke and restoring Judea to an independent monarchy under the Hasmonean kings.

The Maccabean period ended with the conquest of the Romans under Julius' Caesar's general Pompeii, the Hasmoneans were overthrown and the Romans instated the Idumean (The Idumeans, aka the Edomites, were converted to Judaism during the Maccabean period) Herod the Great, with help from the Romans, took the Judean throne and under Herod Judea became a client kingdom (a puppet state) of the Roman Republic (which would not long after become the Roman Empire under Caesar's adopted son Octavian, who took on the regnal name of Caesar Augustus).

Jesus was born during the last couple of years of Herod the Great's reign (c. 4-2 BC), and His ministry took place under Augustus' successor, Tiberius who instated Pontius Pilate as governor of Judea.

Jesus then predicted the destruction of the Temple that would occur during the First Jewish-Roman War, (70 AD). With the death of the last Herodian, Herod Agrippa II (92 AD) the dynasty came to an end, and Judea was incorporated fully as a province of the Roman Empire, and after the Second Jewish-Roman War resulted in the banishment of the Jews from Jerusalem, the erecting of a temple dedicated to Jupiter Capitolinus on the Temple Mount, and renaming the city to Aelia Capitolina, a Roman colony.

This is probably more information than necessary, but it may be helpful, or at least interesting to understand the historical context of all these things.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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eleos1954

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In Daniel 8:14 the temple/sanctuary/holy place is trampled for 2300 day. What does the term for temple/sanctuary/holy place mean. the term is "qodesh"? is it the whole system or is it the 1st apartment. Daniel 8:14 Interlinear: And he saith unto me, Till evening -- morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.

Strong's Hebrew: 6944. קֹ֫דֶשׁ (qodesh) -- 464 Occurrences

In depth study of the sanctuary (32 videos) worth spending the time ;o)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2C946401E1500ED4
 
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ViaCrucis

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the problem that i have is that the explination in Daniel 8 is not that clear.

If you read Daniel chapter 8, it is a little clear,

"Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end. As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia. And the goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king. As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power. And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise. His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now." - Daniel 8:19-26

From the book of 1 Maccabees,

"Then [Antiochus] wrote to his whole kingdom that all should be one people, and that all should give up their particular customs. All the Gentiles accepted the command of the king. Many even from Israel gladly adopted his religion; they sacrificed to idols and profaned the sabbath. And the king sent letters by messengers to Jerusalem and the towns of Judah; he directed them to follow customs strange to the land, to forbid burnt offerings and sacrifices and drink offerings in the sanctuary, to profane sabbaths and festivals, to defile the sanctuary and the priests, to build altars and sacred precincts and shrines for idols, to sacrifice swine and other unclean animals, and to leave their sons uncircumcised. They were to make themselves abominable by everything unclean and profane, so that they would forget the law and change all the ordinances. He added, “And whoever does not obey the command of the king shall die.”

In such words he wrote to his whole kingdom. He appointed inspectors over all the people and commanded the towns of Judah to offer sacrifice, town by town. Many of the people, everyone who forsook the law, joined them, and they did evil in the land; they drove Israel into hiding in every place of refuge they had.

Now on the fifteenth day of Chislev, in the one hundred forty-fifth year, they erected a desolating sacrilege on the altar of burnt offering. They also built altars in the surrounding towns of Judah, and offered incense at the doors of the houses and in the streets. The books of the law that they found they tore to pieces and burned with fire. Anyone found possessing the book of the covenant, or anyone who adhered to the law, was condemned to death by decree of the king. They kept using violence against Israel, against those who were found month after month in the towns. On the twenty-fifth day of the month they offered sacrifice on the altar that was on top of the altar of burnt offering. According to the decree, they put to death the women who had their children circumcised, and their families and those who circumcised them; and they hung the infants from their mothers’ necks.
" 1 Maccabees 1:41-61

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Adventist Heretic

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Not garbage.

You identity yourself as SDA ???
so, still garbage, he is one of the worst SDA preachers I have ever heard. He is one of the worst thinkers, I have ever come in contact with. He is so full of contradictions. double talk and misinformation. when he speaks it is like someone scratching their nail on a chalk board. it is painful to listen to. He once said in a support of men only pastoral ordination, that the reason why men only leadership should be in place and women should not be ordained is that "God sent Angels to talk to man, according EGW, Angels are tall.....Men are tall therefore men are to be leaders and not women. " That is just stupid on so many levels. first. he is a short dude and would be disquallifed just by that statement alone. second he uses women's authority in order to deny women authority. he quotes a woman prophet, which is not supposed to be in his mind, in support of denying women access to ordination. talk about messing with your mind. how he does see that contradiction is amazing. 3. He always appeals to authority in stead morality,spirituality,reason and law. I have position, I am the boss obey me. He just assumes he is right all the time and he assumes he has our well being in mind. he is dangerous nobody is right All the time, and Nobody has your well being all the time.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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so, still garbage
What is Seventh-Day Evangelical? I am not familiar with this denomination.

Pastor Bohn teaches traditional SDA biblical doctrine on the sanctuary so it must be very different than the SDA church.

Thanks
 
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What is Seventh-Day Evangelical? I am not familiar with this denomination.

Pastor Bohn teaches traditional SDA biblical doctrine on the sanctuary so it must be very different than the SDA church.

Thanks
you can ask this in another post. it is not relevant to this topic.
 
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ViaCrucis

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does anyone actually have some response to Daniel 8

The king is described as עַז־פָּנִים ('az-panim) "fierce appearance" or "mighty presence". Meaning he is fierce, mighty, powerful, the king is powerful or at least gives off an air of power about him. And also as וּמֵבִין חִידֽוֹת (umebin hidot) "understanding intrigue". That is he is a plotter, a schemer.

So the king is fierce and cunning. Not someone to be trifled with, a legitimate threat.

The text in Daniel continues,

"His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand." (Daniel 8:24-25)

Note that his power though great, is not his own; namely Antiochus did not earn his position legitimately, he took it by seizing the throne. Note also that he is described as cunning and conniving.

Further see his fate, according to the book of 2 Maccabees the end of Antiochus was a long painful death from disease, perceived as a curse from God (similar to how Herod Agrippa's death is described in the Acts of the Apostles). Other stories have Antiochus fleeing by sea and ending up drowning.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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