So, if people's theology means they cannot forgive, does that mean hell?

Hazelelponi · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
In the gospel Jesus talks about how the way we judge others is the way we will be judged, and the way we measure others, the same ruler stick will be applied to us.

So how does this apply to theologies on the final judgment?

For example, if in your theology, most people go to hell - does that mean you're also "mostly" going to hell?

This is speaking of individuals who have been harmed or wronged by other individuals, not general theological stances on what we believe the Scriptures teach.

Believing "most people will go to hell" is not a judgement about individuals that have wronged you, it's a general theological stance based on what someone thinks the Scriptures teach.

If you walk up to me and push me to the ground and walk away, and then come back next week and apologize, I should forgive you. If I don't forgive you for whatever reason, then that's the standard by which God will judge me. And like Jesus on the cross who declared "Father forgive them for they know not what they do", I should forgive you even if you don't ask for it.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Was a reference to how people can be saved, but their works burned.

In the parable of 1 Corinthians 3:

The person who will be saved through fire in this instance is the apostle Paul, and the works that are burned are the Corinthians (which are his work in the gospel). The Corinthians (Paul's work) are in danger of being burned like wood, hay, and stubble (i.e. they are in danger of being destroyed by hellfire) because they are justifying the sins of strife and envy (See: 1 Corinthians 3:3). Pauls mentions the sins of strife and envy in Galatians 5:19-21 and says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

So if we are doing evangelism in reaching others for Christ, and we bring somebody to Christ through the gospel, they can be destroyed by God by defiling their temple by justifying sin in this life. They may slip back into a life of doing various sins and not repent of such sins and we (as an evangelist) who brought them to the faith will be saved (if we remained faithful to the Lord), yet, they will be burned. Our work as an evangelist in bringing this person to Christ will be burned or destroyed in hell fire if they justify sin. We will not get a reward for bringing this person to Christ because they later turned to out to do evil in their life. They did not stay faithful to the Lord. But yet, we as an evangelist are still saved even if they (our work in bringing them to Christ) will be burned (on account of their justifying sin).

GallagherM · Jul 15, 2021

I don’t think Paul spoken in parables.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

GallagherM said:
I don’t think Paul spoken in parables.

Parable:

Definition:

A comparison; a similitude; specifically, a short fictitious narrative of something which might really occur in life or nature, by means of which a moral is drawn; as, the parables of Christ.
Declare unto us the parable of the tares.

Source:
Parable | Definition of Parable by Webster's Online Dictionary

Paul makes a comparison by saying you are God's building, and you are God's husbandry (cultivated field). Paul says, According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. Paul says he is a wise master builder. This is an analogy or comparison. Paul says no man can lay another foundation but Jesus Christ. Jesus is not literally a foundation for a real building. It's an analogy or comparison. It's parabolic. We build upon a foundation of Jesus (we set our life in order in the precepts of Christ).

So sin..... you can forget it. That is not something you build upon Jesus because Jesus never advocated sin. That is not a material that makes up a building upon the foundation of Jesus. This is why the work are a people. The people we bring to the faith (our work in the Lord) can potentially be burned up while yet we are still saved if we are faithful to God.

You are merely following the sin and still be saved crowd's interpretation on 1 Corinthians 3. But that is clearly not in line with what the context of 1 Corinthians 3 is talking about at all. Read the entire chapter several times over, and over, and over, and over again in prayer. It's not talking about believers justifying sin and only losing rewards by doing so.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

GallagherM said:
I don’t think Paul spoken in parables.

Paul used the Roman legal system as a parable, some people take it literally instead and assert penal substitution.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

Hazelelponi said:
based on what someone thinks the Scriptures teach.

Thus a judgment, of who God is.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I know God can make things clear to me on what we may disagree on according to Philippians 3:15, but I would rather you explain it. Your ability to not answer my questions only shows that your belief may in fact not be biblical.

One may be able to say something is biblical, but how many biblical things result in demonic treatment of others?

I'm more interested in what is Godly.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
One may be able to say something is biblical, but how many biblical things result in demonic treatment of others?

Under the New Covenant: If something is truly biblical, then it would not harm anyone. Now, what some Christians say is biblical is not always biblical (of course). But if something is truly based on God's Word it cannot lead to the unjust treatment of others.

You said:
I'm more interested in what is Godly.

Which is biblical or in accordance with God's Word.

“But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.” (1 Timothy 6:11).

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Under the New Covenant: If something is truly biblical, then it would not harm anyone. Now, what some Christians say is biblical is not always biblical (of course). But if something is truly based on God's Word it cannot lead to the unjust treatment of others.

Which is biblical or in accordance with God's Word.

You missed my reference to James 3:12-18 in summary.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
You missed my reference to James 3:12-18 in summary.

You are speaking very cryptically or mysteriously.
I just reread all of James chapter 3 as a refresher. What you is your point in bringing up James 3:12-18 in what I said about things being biblical?

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
You are speaking very cryptically or mysteriously.
I just reread all of James chapter 3 as a refresher. What you is your point in bringing up James 3:12-18 in what I said about things being biblical?

The James passage is all about how what is biblical is applied.

It can be heavenly and demonic at the same time depending on who is speaking and with what inner attitude.

public hermit · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
In the gospel Jesus talks about how the way we judge others is the way we will be judged, and the way we measure others, the same ruler stick will be applied to us.

So how does this apply to theologies on the final judgment?

For example, if in your theology, most people go to hell - does that mean you're also "mostly" going to hell?

I think it's obvious we must "judge" in terms of discerning what is good and what is not, primarily for navigating situations so that we do what is fitting and good.

But the idea of making determinations in our heart regarding the status of others before God is about as close to blasphemy as one can get for the sole reason that the Lord alone is judge. I have no interest, personally, in stepping on those toes.

So, I think those who judge others in the second sense are putting themselves in a ill-suited position to stand before the actual Judge. Does that mean they will be condemned? Ha! How should I know? I'm not the judge.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

public hermit said:
I think it's obvious we must "judge" in terms of discerning what is good and what is not, primarily for navigating situations so that we do what is fitting and good.

But the idea of making determinations in our heart regarding the status of others before God is about as close to blasphemy as one can get for the sole reason that the Lord alone is judge. I have no interest, personally, in stepping on those toes.

So, I think those who judge others in the second sense are putting themselves in a ill-suited position to stand before the actual Judge. Does that mean they will be condemned? Ha! How should I know? I'm not the judge.

Good answer, I'm not the judge either.

God is so humble, He might even get out of His seat and ask if you would like to sit -- as an illustration.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
The James passage is all about how what is biblical is applied.

It can be heavenly and demonic at the same time depending on who is speaking and with what inner attitude.

I tend to NOT look at a person acting demonic as being a biblical attitude. The whole purpose of the Bible is to lead you to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and to do His good will. So when we refer to our behavior being biblical as believers we are referring to how we are properly behaving in Jesus Christ. It should not include any of the bad behaviors that God disapproves of. God condemns sin and that is biblical. While demons are mentioned in the Bible, the Lord our God does not want us to behave like demons. That would not be in line with the behavior God desires of us. God wants us to act in a biblically good way because that is what the Bible teaches us. So it is not biblical for a saint to act demonically because God does not desire His people to act that way.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I tend to NOT look at a person acting demonic as being a biblical attitude. The whole purpose of the Bible is to lead you to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and to do His good will. So when we refer to our behavior being biblical as believers we are referring to how we are properly behaving in Jesus Christ. It should not include any of the bad behaviors that God disapproves of. God condemns sin and that is biblical. While demons are mentioned in the Bible, the Lord our God does not want us to behave like demons. That would not be in line with the behavior God desires of us. God wants us to act in a biblically good way because that is what the Bible teaches us.

While I don't disagree, while you were formulating your response I was reminded of how the devil quoted scripture to oppose Jesus. So even if something appears to be biblical - it may still be suspect.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
While I don't disagree, while you were formulating your response I was reminded of how the devil quoted scripture to oppose Jesus. So even if something appears to be biblical - it may still be suspect.

Right, and I did mention that possibility already about folks who say things are biblical but yet they are not biblical. But yes, just because somebody may quote from the Bible, or just because somebody says a particular action is biblical, it does not mean they are acting biblically. Again, a bad attitude or behavior that God condems is not a biblical one because God does not desire such behavior from his people. Jesus says we will know false prophets by their fruit. Fruits are deeds. So if a person is doing evil, or they condone evil, then they are merely exposing themselves as being a bad tree. But just because the Bible records the actions of evil spirits does not mean their actions are biblical for us as saints. So I would not say that a believer can act evil and still be acting in a way that is biblical. For God does not desire His people to do evil for God is good.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

GallagherM said:
I don’t think Paul spoken in parables.

Paul spoke in parables. He did so also in Ephesians 6:11-17.

In Ephesians 6:11-17, Paul was not referring to any literal real armor, but he was referring to our applying spiritual truths in His Word as a way of protection against the enemy by comparing it with our understanding of real armor and a physical sword. We are in a battle. A spiritual one. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities. Ephesians 6:11-17 has to be understood in parabolic terms in comparing our understanding of real armor and a real sword with spiritual truths in God's Word. For if a Christian thought these things were literal, he would end up trying to be like Indiana Jones looking for religious artifacts.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 15, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Right, and I did mention that possibility already about folks who say things are biblical but yet they are not biblical. But yes, just because somebody may quote from the Bible, or just because somebody says a particular action is biblical, it does not mean they are acting biblically. Again, a bad attitude or behavior that God condems is not a biblical one because God does not desire such behavior from his people. Jesus says we will know false prophets by their fruit. Fruits are deeds. So if a person is doing evil, or they condone evil, then they are merely exposing themselves as being a bad tree. But just because the Bible records the actions of evil spirits does not mean their actions are biblical for us as saints. So I would not say that a believer can act evil and still be acting in a way that is biblical. For God does not desire His people to do evil for God is good.

For example.

Someone teaching the ten commandments, but in his heart coveting to control his neighbor, sins in the teaching of the ten commandments since they were given for the good of the people.

It's an extension of when Jesus said, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

A bible interpretation, that comes from a sinful place is not Godly, but some may call it biblical because it agrees with their conclusions.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 15, 2021

Michael Collum said:
For example.

Someone teaching the ten commandments, but in his heart coveting to control his neighbor, sins in the teaching of the ten commandments since they were given for the good of the people.

Right, the apostle Paul critcizes this kind of hypocrtical kind of thing in Romans 2.
Such an individual is not acting biblically or in accordance with God's Word in following His will.
But just so that you may know, only 9 out of the 10 commands apply under the New Covenant. The Sabbath command has not carried over into the New Covenant (See: Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5). The Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). We are under the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) (Romans 8:2) (1 Corinthians 9:21), and we are not under the 613 laws of Moses (Romans 6:14, Galatians 6:2-4).

You said:
It's an extension of when Jesus said, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Right, there are those who can appear to be for God's laws, but their heart and actions may reveal another story.

You said:
A bible interpretation, that comes from a sinful place is not Godly, but some may call it biblical because it agrees with their conclusions.

Right, and this would not be believing and or acting in a true biblical way despite their endless claims to their belief or actions being biblical. God knows what belief and what actions are truly biblical or in accordance with His Word. They are only fooling themselves if they are not truly believing or acting in accordance with the Bible. But then again, God predicted that in the last days men shall have a form of godliness but they will deny the power thereof. They will be lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God (See: 2 Timothy 3:1-9).

GallagherM · Jul 15, 2021

Okay, maybe I was wrong.

So, if people's theology means they cannot forgive, does that mean hell?

:sighing:

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

social troglodyte

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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