A Messianic View On Elijah

Mr. M

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When Elijah Comes

In this discussion began in Eschatology, it crossed my mind to wonder
what the Messianic view of these scriptures would be. I have heard
among Orthodox Judaism the expression, "we will know when the
Tishbite comes", or something to that effect.
 

visionary

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There will also be an Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. As before, it will be in the spirit and power of Elijah.
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

It was great that Yshua came the first time, and it will be dreadful when He comes again as King of the Universe.
 
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Mr. M

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It was great that Yshua came the first time, and it will be dreadful when He comes again as King of the Universe.
Isaiah 61:
2
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.

Luke 4:19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.
One down, one to go.
 
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chunkofcoal

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There will also be an Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. As before, it will be in the spirit and power of Elijah.
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

It was great that Yshua came the first time, and it will be dreadful when He comes again as King of the Universe.

Why "an Elijah" and not Elijah himself?
 
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MOD HAT ON

Statement of Purpose and Off-Topic
Read and abide by each forum's Statement of Purpose; Statement of Purpose threads are sticky threads located at the top of the forum's page. Not all forums have a Statement of Purpose thread. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose. Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

The OP asks for a Messianic point of view on this topic.

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Mr. M

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Why "an Elijah" and not Elijah himself?
John the Baptist was " an elijah" but not elijah.... I believe it will also be the same for the dreadful day.
While I did use Elijah as a focal point for the discussion, I believe that the "weightier matters"
are that Malachi 3 and 4, and many other unfulfilled prophecies made reference to by Peter in
Acts 3:21 suggests that there will be a great "spiritual restoration" in Israel prior to Messiah's
second coming, and such an undertaking is the Lord's work, not man's. It is not centered on a
temple or resumption of a sacrificial system. This requires at the very least, "the spirit and power"
of Elijah, as well as an absolutely perfect understanding of what is revealed by the Torah.

Malachi 4:4 Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.

I proposed in a thread last year that this understanding can begin by acknowledging
the immensity of what is being stated and claimed in this one verse:

Joshua 24:31 Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who
outlived Joshua, who had known all the works of the Lord which He had done for Israel.

Please note the comprehensive, all-encompassing nature of this claim, and also that it was attained
not only under Joshua, but also "all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua". Hence, as the testimony of the Torah in Exodus supports, the system being set up by Moses was to be centered around elders who would serve as judges=shaphat, to provide judgments=mishpat for the people.
Not one central figure. By this righteousness and judgment would be served
.
Psalms 89:14 Righteousness and judgment are the foundation of Your throne;
Mercy and truth go before Your face.
 
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Mr. M

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But why not Elijah himself? You don't think he has a role in "the dreadful day"?
I actually do, I am just not insisting on it. I don't want to disagree with @visionary for no
fruitful reason. You could suggest it be 70 men with the spirit divided among them, and
that would be scriptural. :)
 
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visionary

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But why not Elijah himself? You don't think he has a role in "the dreadful day"?
Elijah didn't have anything to do with the great day, but in the same spirit John the Baptist was the Elijah of the great day, and thus it makes sense that in the same spirit Someone will be the Elijah of the Dreadful day.
 
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Mr. M

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But why not Elijah himself? You don't think he has a role in "the dreadful day"?
Apologies. I just realized you were responding to @visionary, and not me. I guess I just got
excited by receiving an email. :tutu:
 
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chunkofcoal

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While I did use Elijah as a focal point for the discussion, I believe that the "weightier matters"
are that Malachi 3 and 4, and many other unfulfilled prophecies made reference to by Peter in
Acts 3:21 suggests that there will be a great "spiritual restoration" in Israel prior to Messiah's
second coming, and such an undertaking is the Lord's work, not man's. It is not centered on a
temple or resumption of a sacrificial system. This requires at the very least, "the spirit and power"
of Elijah, as well as an absolutely perfect understanding of what is revealed by the Torah.

Malachi 4:4 Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.

I proposed in a thread last year that this understanding can begin by acknowledging
the immensity of what is being stated and claimed in this one verse:

Joshua 24:31 Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who
outlived Joshua, who had known all the works of the Lord which He had done for Israel.

Please note the comprehensive, all-encompassing nature of this claim, and also that it was attained
not only under Joshua, but also "all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua". Hence, as the testimony of the Torah in Exodus supports, the system being set up by Moses was to be centered around elders who would serve as judges=shaphat, to provide judgments=mishpat for the people.
Not one central figure. By this righteousness and judgment would be served
.
Psalms 89:14 Righteousness and judgment are the foundation of Your throne;
Mercy and truth go before Your face.

I think Acts 3:21 is about more than a "spiritual restoration" in Israel.

The word used for restitution/restoration - "apokatastasis".
From the commentary "Robertson's Word Pictures" :
Restoration (apokatastaseōs). Double compound (apo, kata, histēmi), here only in the N.T., though common in late writers. In papyri and inscriptions for repairs to temples and this phrase occurs in Jewish apocalyptic writings, something like the new heaven and the new earth of Rev_21:1. Paul has a mystical allusion also to the agony of nature in Rom_8:20-22. The verb apokathistēmi is used by Jesus of the spiritual and moral restoration wrought by the Baptist as Elijah (Mat_17:11; Mar_9:12) and by the disciples to Jesus in Act_1:6. Josephus uses the word of the return from captivity and Philo of the restitution of inheritances in the year of jubilee.
 
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Mr. M

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I think Acts 3:21 is about more than a "spiritual restoration" in Israel.

The word used for restitution/restoration - "apokatastasis".
This may be true, but I am basing my conclusion on Yeshua's words, not Philo.
I do love philough dough though, brough.
John 4:
21
Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this
mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit
and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

For the Truth!
P.S. The commentary does mention spiritual use by Yeshua.

The verb apokathistēmi is used by Jesus of the spiritual and moral restoration wrought by the Baptist as Elijah (Mat_17:11; Mar_9:12) and by the disciples to Jesus in Act_1:6.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak
to you are spirit, and they are life.

 
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chunkofcoal

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This may be true, but I am basing my conclusion on Yeshua's words, not Philo.
I do love philough dough though, brough.
John 4:
21
Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this
mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit
and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

For the Truth!
P.S. The commentary does mention spiritual use by Yeshua.


John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak
to you are spirit, and they are life.
Are you not a believer in the restoration of Israel?
 
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Mr. M

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Are you not a believer in the restoration of Israel?
Of course I believe in the restoration of Israel. I was just keeping my focus on the spiritual.
The dry bones aren't truly restored until the breath. I will believe that the throne of David
is established in Jerusalem when I see "spiritual evidence". Elijah could very well be the
carrier of that torch, so to speak. We are witnesses, so we will have to wait and see.
We are watchmen, we will have to watch, and pray.
 
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visionary

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Of course I believe in the restoration of Israel. I was just keeping my focus on the spiritual.
The dry bones aren't truly restored until the breath. I will believe that the throne of David
is established in Jerusalem when I see "spiritual evidence". Elijah could very well be the
carrier of that torch, so to speak. We are witnesses, so we will have to wait and see.
We are watchmen, we will have to watch, and pray.
You know the first coming had a small percentage notice. It will be the same again, with only a few "remnant" who see what is coming. Ours is not to look for numbers but for inspiritation.
  1. Isaiah 1:9
    Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
  2. Isaiah 10:20
    And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
  3. Isaiah 10:21
    The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
  4. Isaiah 11:11
    And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
  5. Jeremiah 6:9
    Thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall throughly glean the remnant of Israel as a vine: turn back thine hand as a grapegatherer into the baskets.
  6. Jeremiah 23:3
    And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
  7. Joel 2:32
    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
  8. Zephaniah 3:13
    The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
  9. Haggai 1:12
    Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the Lord their God, and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the Lord their God had sent him, and the people did fear before the Lord.
  10. Zechariah 8:6
    Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts.
  11. Romans 9:27
    Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
  12. Revelation 12:17
    And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
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Mr. M

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You know the first coming had a small percentage notice. It will be the same again, with only a few "remnant" who see what is coming. Ours is not to look for numbers but for inspiritation.
Thank you! I have been around many evangelically minded who think that the church is bringing
in an end time harvest by getting people saved by a sinners prayer. I have been watching for the
presence of a remnant in Israel for over two decades now, as Jewish believers in Yeshua have been
growing there. Romans 9 has been one of my references for believing this. Not that I think there
must be 7000 believers in Israel, but that I see the rise in believers there an a foundation for
establishing that remnant. If we were to speculate that "the spirit and power of Elijah" was at
work even now, would it not be among these, as well as those with eyes opened around the world
who look for this spiritual "revival" in Israel? Further scriptural references that are relevant:

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
This clearly implies that blindness coming off of Israel suggests that the fullness of the Gentiles is
approaching, or has been reached already.


Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

All eyes on Jerusalem for good reason.
 
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visionary

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Thank you! I have been around many evangelically minded who think that the church is bringing
in an end time harvest by getting people saved by a sinners prayer. I have been watching for the
presence of a remnant in Israel for over two decades now, as Jewish believers in Yeshua have been
growing there. Romans 9 has been one of my references for believing this. Not that I think there
must be 7000 believers in Israel, but that I see the rise in believers there an a foundation for
establishing that remnant. If we were to speculate that "the spirit and power of Elijah" was at
work even now, would it not be among these, as well as those with eyes opened around the world
who look for this spiritual "revival" in Israel? Further scriptural references that are relevant:

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
This clearly implies that blindness coming off of Israel suggests that the fullness of the Gentiles is
approaching, or has been reached already.


Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

All eyes on Jerusalem for good reason.
My conclusions... There are a couple of reasons that I can think of at the top of my head regarding Israel... as a country, it is the place where all eyes watch to see what the "Jews" do. It is also the place where the temple is expected to be built. It is the place where the remnant of Israel will be. It is the place where the last great stand and armageddon will take place.

As far as the people of Israel or of Jewish descent, they are called, those that answer will be fulfilling God's Will as the apple of His eye. Watching them grow into the faith of Yeshua and the very spirit in which His Commandments work will be a wonder to behold. It will also be revealing the time at hand.
 
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