Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Do you rely on forum posts as your source for theological study?
No.

Now as for what I was saying in the previous post, anyone who comes down on the side of actually deciding that universalism is God's way does so with almost no Scriptural support. There is, however, plenty of Scriptural support for the belief that some are saved and some are lost.

Why shouldn't this fact rank higher in the estimation of any Christian than all the wishing and guessing that the other side is forced to do?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickReads
Upvote 0

GallagherM

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
818
349
33
Fyffe
✟13,469.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Is there any scripture support in the bible that says; everyone is a child of God, and that all people are saved to the kingdom of God?

Everyone agrees that sins have been paid for mankind by and through the bloodshed of Jesus Christ; which is an notion of everyone is saved from the penalty of sin; which can lead one to freedom of bondage of sin - which is unbelief in the first place. It is just a choice if you accept that forgiveness freely given.
 
Upvote 0

Hmm

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know
Sep 27, 2019
4,866
5,025
34
Shropshire
✟186,359.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
More like their evidence is arbitrarily dismissed.

That's right, many verses and ECF quotes have been given that either support Universalism or at least suggest that the idea is not completely idiotic. The truth is that many people want heaven to be exclusive as if it's a club and they will summarily dismiss these texts. It's schadenfreude - a beautiful word with an ugly meaning (joy at others misfortune)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That's right, many verses and ECF quotes have been given that either support Universalism or at least suggest that the idea is not completely idiotic.

That's not actually the case. A lot of verses and arguments that those posters SAID proved their case have been presented, but hardly any of it could be considered to have been persuasive.

But there is a wealth of Biblical evidence--and all of us know it--to the effect that some humans will be lost.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: RickReads
Upvote 0

GallagherM

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
818
349
33
Fyffe
✟13,469.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
@Hmm; do not believe it is about being a 'exclusive club' it is about what God has spoken not what man can conjure up.

Anyone can easily use a whole list of scripture from however many books they need. Collectively and say here is my doctrine. Everyone is going to be saved and go to heaven.

But where is the choice? What if people do not desire to go and be with God?

To take this is consideration is a big step for anyone to go and realize the truth - the body of real things - the facts - state of being the case - of the understanding that not everyone in this life is going to be saved to the Kingdom of God when they go into judgement from leaving this earth...

Everyone knows about the Lord unless they are somewhere out in the aborigines who have not read the Gospels but God knows them and knows exactly how to deal with them compared to us ourselves, and according to scripture.

Romans 1:20 says : For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

Hebrews 8:11 says : and they shall not teach each his neighbour, and each his brother, saying, Know thou the Lord, because they shall all know Me from the small one of them unto the great one of them,​

What about people who willfully do not care about the truth?

Hebrews 3:19 So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest.​

There are people out there who are still unable to enter God's rest due to their unbelief; because they are willfully rejecting it; or they have not come to understand what the truth is.


So I do not understand how people can go and say universalism is a real thing because it is not...

If you care about truth; you will seek out truth and the truth will be made known to you but if a person does not care to know the truth and only desire to believe whatever they desire they can also willfully go that route to...

All people of Faith and believing will either have a reward given to them after this life for reaping to the spirit. - Faith believers
All people unfaith and unbelieving will not have any reward given to them if they desire to chase after this life here and not seek out the truth that God has to bring forth.

There are two rising up - or Resurrections: Unbelievers and believers.

Unbelievers go to the outside of the kingdom of God because that is what they desired from the heart.

Believers go on to be with God inside of the Heavenly Jerusalem on high - because that is what they desired from the heart.

(Revelation 22)

John 5:29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.​

That is the cost that maybe people do not desire to truthfully hear.

It is a persons choice and I do not hate anyone here, nor judge anyone here, or care if people make remarks to me that they have been in the faith longer than me none of that matters. But what does matter to me is the truth... because the truth will set you free ; so it says in the bible and my desire is allow people to make a choice and to be set free from their bondage of man-made doctrines like this one, and maybe traditions that have kept a person in bondage and be set free in the liberty of the spirit of Adoption given from the Father in heaven allowing us to have the spirit of Christ live inside of them.

If people wanna just reject all of that it is fine by me, God bless them on their journey and hopefully they will change their mind.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RickReads
Upvote 0

Hmm

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know
Sep 27, 2019
4,866
5,025
34
Shropshire
✟186,359.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Anyone can easily use a whole list of scripture from however many books they need. Collectively and say here is my doctrine. Everyone is going to be saved and go to heaven.

I agree but that does apply equally to all other competing doctrines about heaven. Scripture isn't clear on the matter otherwise there wouldn't be so much disagreement between equally well informed people (and I don't include myself in that category!) Throwing proof texts at one another is not going to get anywhere.

But where is the choice? What if people do not desire to go and be with God?

I think in that case God would respect that and they won't go. But I think because we are all made in God's image, we all deep down do want to be with God and God won't give up on us. God wants all to be saved and He will accomplish that however hard it is and long it takes (it may be post mortem for many)

It is a persons choice and I do not hate anyone here, nor judge anyone here, or care if people make remarks to me that they have been in the faith longer than me none of that matters.

You seem to have a very good faith to me - it's not how long you've been on the road but how far down it you are that's important ☺️

But what does matter to me is the truth... because the truth will set you free ; so it says in the bible

Indeed!
 
Upvote 0

GallagherM

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
818
349
33
Fyffe
✟13,469.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thank you for your reply @Hmm

In concurring with; even after earth; I would believe God still would be calling out to his creations that have not come around to know truth and maybe those in the kingdom can go out to help them. That is something I desire to believe in, but that is in my own heart of desire to continue to help others for the Love of God.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hmm
Upvote 0

Hmm

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know
Sep 27, 2019
4,866
5,025
34
Shropshire
✟186,359.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Thank you for your reply @Hmm

In concurring with; even after earth; I would believe God still would be calling out to his creations that have not come around to know truth and maybe those in the kingdom can go out to help them. That is something I desire to believe in, but that is in my own heart of desire to continue to help others for the Love of God.

I think the same and that's Universalism in a nutshell. I don't apply the label Universalist to myself btw - I just think it's the option devoutly to be wished for as per the topic of the thread. I've also not heard any convincing evidence that the idea is not scriptural - on the contrary I've been surprised by the scriptual evidence and writings from the ECFs (some good quotes and links have been given in this thread) that support the idea.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I think the same and that's Universalism in a nutshell. I don't apply the label Universalist to myself btw - I just think it's the option devoutly to be wished as per the topic of the thread. I've also not heard any convincing evidence that the idea is not scriptural - on the contrary I've been surprised by the scriptual evidence and writings from the ECFs (some good quotes and links have been given in this thread) that support the idea.
What was that "scriptural evidence?" The great majority of the posts here that favored universalism talked about God being forgiving and merciful and that Christ died for the sins of the whole world...not one of which even deals with the subject of universal salvation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hmm

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know
Sep 27, 2019
4,866
5,025
34
Shropshire
✟186,359.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
What was that "scriptural evidence?"

See the many posts in this thread quoting scripture that may support the idea. Evidence is just that, evidence which you may find persuasive or not. There's obviously no knockdown proof that will convince everyone on either side of the argument otherwise we'd all be in agreement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
74
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟294,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The way the discussion has turned, I feel impelled to post this, and leave it at that. It is the distillation of over two years of inquiry below the surface of a very ordinary King James Bible.

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is apparently uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. To back that up, the Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation as described in Genesis is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life surely also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. Nearly all the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4. The only exception is the banishment of the unrighteous to the Lake of Fire – but that is for their ultimate salvation, otherwise Death cannot be defeated and God cannot become All in all...as we see in I Corinthians 15.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the marginal or center-column reference.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato. It is clearly pagan.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and dead) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

15. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s also cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but Mary K Baxter depicts Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in Eternal Conscious Torment, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on… Fictional descriptions of Hell, especially as seen in the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter, are clearly fictional and un-Biblical.

16. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not to destroy them or send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

17. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

18. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

19. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – usually as fire, but sometimes as soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

20. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.

21. “Hell” is used in the King James Version (and others) to replace four other words: “Sheol,” “Hades,” “Gehenna” and “Tartarus.” None of these refer to a place of damnation or Eternal Conscious Torment. See any decent dictionary, especially the Oxford English Dictionary.

22. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is an imposition, an insertion into the text. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, such as the “Hel” we find in Norse mythology, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
There's obviously no knockdown proof that will convince everyone on either side of the argument otherwise we'd all be in agreement.
Well, sure there would be a disagreement for the reason that's already been referred to several times. People (or some of them) will continue to make Christianity over into their own image. They will believe what they want to have be the truth and as for Scripture...it is just ignored.

I've met many such people in my life. They will defend to the bitter end whatever their favorite sin happens to be (not that this is a sin we are talking about on this thread, but the same reasoning applies) by refashioning God into a "good guy" who wouldn't think of being "mean" to them by having any standards or expectations of his creatures that might cause them any discomfort. :doh: But when it comes to OTHER sins, ones that other people do, well, then they're real sticklers for obedience.
 
Upvote 0

GallagherM

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
818
349
33
Fyffe
✟13,469.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think the same and that's Universalism in a nutshell. I don't apply the label Universalist to myself btw - I just think it's the option devoutly to be wished for as per the topic of the thread. I've also not heard any convincing evidence that the idea is not scriptural - on the contrary I've been surprised by the scriptual evidence and writings from the ECFs (some good quotes and links have been given in this thread) that support the idea.

Reconciliationism is a term that is liked better by myself, because judgement after this earth comes first; when hearing the word universalism - to me I just hear "EVERYONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN EVERYONE IS GOING BE SAVED" now on earth because it seems so simple to say... to someone...

Oh you don't believe ? That is okay; everyone is going to be saved one day; but in reality while here on earth there ...

There are rewards at stake for the here after...

I do not know how well equipped those who are unbelievers will be able to dwell in the light... or whatever.

All I know is : 1 Corinthians 2:9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.”
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The way the discussion has turned, I feel impelled to post this, and leave it at that. It is the distillation of over two years of inquiry below the surface of a very ordinary King James Bible.

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is apparently uncreated by God or anyone else.

You've taken on hell and debunked it without ever addressing the question of universalism.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are correct. After all is said and done, the conventional belief that some are saved and some are lost is Biblical, while the Universalist argument rests mainly on what the human would like God to do.

So, for all the chit chat we've experienced on this thread, this is still the Controversial Christian Theology forum, and Scripture still decides this issue.

The Original Post was sensible for having asked what we would do IF we could have it our way, but inevitably the discussion drifted away from that question.
The only cure for ignorance is education. I suggest you hit the books.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Albion
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Try lining up those few, unspecific verses against the pile of Scriptural evidence that teaches the other view. The case for Universalism fades fast.
The one with the most verses wins? Is that how it works.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The one with the most verses wins? Is that how it works.
If you have none, you may want to frame the issue that way. But the fact is that one side has plenty of evidence and it's strong, whereas the other has very little and it's rather speculative.

For instance, Acts of the Apostles 3:21 which says that everything will be restored. We could argue that this means that everyone will be in heaven with the Lord, but it's a guess and the meaning could very well be about one of several other developments.

Or, there's Romans 11:32 which says that God has put all people into a prison of disobedience in order to be merciful to all. But while that verse is one of the very few that universalists claim, it doesn't really tell us that the mercy of God refers to what they want God to be speaking of there.

Meanwhile, the verses that go the other way are many and almost impossible to interpret in any way other than that some people will be lost.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: RickReads
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RickReads

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2020
3,433
1,068
59
richmond
✟64,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
The way the discussion has turned, I feel impelled to post this, and leave it at that. It is the distillation of over two years of inquiry below the surface of a very ordinary King James Bible.

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is apparently uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. To back that up, the Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation as described in Genesis is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life surely also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. Nearly all the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4. The only exception is the banishment of the unrighteous to the Lake of Fire – but that is for their ultimate salvation, otherwise Death cannot be defeated and God cannot become All in all...as we see in I Corinthians 15.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the marginal or center-column reference.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato. It is clearly pagan.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and dead) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

15. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s also cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but Mary K Baxter depicts Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in Eternal Conscious Torment, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on… Fictional descriptions of Hell, especially as seen in the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter, are clearly fictional and un-Biblical.

16. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not to destroy them or send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

17. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

18. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

19. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – usually as fire, but sometimes as soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

20. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.

21. “Hell” is used in the King James Version (and others) to replace four other words: “Sheol,” “Hades,” “Gehenna” and “Tartarus.” None of these refer to a place of damnation or Eternal Conscious Torment. See any decent dictionary, especially the Oxford English Dictionary.

22. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is an imposition, an insertion into the text. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, such as the “Hel” we find in Norse mythology, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

It isn`t necessary to discuss hell to refute Universalism. That`s one of its fatal weaknesses.
 
Upvote 0