The Gospel of Jesus

Ligurian · Jul 13, 2021

Clare73 said:
Contrare. . .

"In the days of those kings" = the Roman empire (Daniel 2:40-43), which conquered the Greek empire (Daniel 2:39, Daniel 8:21).

The Roman empire (63BC - 476BC) conquered the Greek empire (330BC - 63BC) in 63BC.
The Messianic kingdom was set jup during the past Roman empire, at the time of the first coming of Christ (Matthew 12:28).
So how did you miss what the Lord reveals all over the Bible in Daniel, Luke, John, 1 Corinthians, Ephesians and 1 Peter?

No, the Messianic Kingdom was not set up in Matthew 12:28... that doesn't happen until Revelation 11:15. The judgment often happens long before the sentence is carried out.

Clare73 said:
That his kingdom is on earth, right now, set up during the Roman empire of 63BC - 476AD at Christ's first coming, in fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Daniel 2:31-35), interpreted to him by/in Daniel 2:36-45, where God set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, will crush all other kingdoms, and will endure forever (Daniel 2:44).

Daniel 2:42 And whereas the toes of the feet were part of iron and part of earthenware, part of the kingdom shall be strong, and part of it shall be broken. 43 Whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with earthenware, they shall be mingled with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave together, as the iron does not mix itself with earthenware. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and his kingdom shall not be left to another people, but it shall beat to pieces and grind to powder all other kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Whereas thou sawest that a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, and it beat to pieces the earthenware, the iron, the brass, the silver, the gold; the great God has made known to the king what must happen hereafter: and the dream is true, and the interpretation thereof sure.LXX

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
(When Revelation was written, Rome's called "one is.")

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Clare73 · Jul 13, 2021

Ligurian said:
No, the Messianic Kingdom was not set up in Matthew 12:28... that doesn't happen until Revelation 11:15. The judgment often happens long before the sentence is carried out.

Your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (Number 12:8) does not overturn Jesus' words in Matthew 12:28.

Daniel 2:42 And whereas the toes of the feet were part of iron and part of earthenware, part of the kingdom shall be strong, and part of it shall be broken. 43 Whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with earthenware, they shall be mingled with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave together, as the iron does not mix itself with earthenware. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and his kingdom shall not be left to another people, but it shall beat to pieces and grind to powder all other kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Whereas thou sawest that a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, and it beat to pieces the earthenware, the iron, the brass, the silver, the gold; the great God has made known to the king what must happen hereafter: and the dream is true, and the interpretation thereof sure.LXX
Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings:

Has nothing to do with the four kings of Daniel 2:31-45.

five are fallen, and one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
(When Revelation was written, Rome's called "one is.")

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

The rock/stone of Daniel 2:34, Daniel 2:45--Jesus of Nazareth, the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20).

Ligurian · Jul 13, 2021

timothyu said:
But that truth did not come to fruition where it could be called truth until He completed His mission of no will of His own but only that of the Father. Had He failed at the last moment before death, we would not be discussing this.

Thank you! This is true.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto Him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth My voice.

Jesus didn't say He was king... And that's not the reason He came here. If the people who added punctuation had done it correctly, that sentence in John 18:37 would read:
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world: that I should bear witness unto the truth.

Because Jesus' entire mission statement is here:

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Ligurian · Jul 13, 2021

Clare73 said:
Your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (Number 12:8) does not overturn Jesus' words in Matthew 12:28.

Has nothing to do with the four kings of Daniel 2:31-45.
The rock/stone of Daniel 2:34, Daniel 2:45--Jesus of Nazareth, the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20).

Your personal interpretation doesn't overturn my personal interpretation.

I am not a grace gospel gentile. I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Clare73 · Jul 13, 2021

Ligurian said:
Your personal interpretation doesn't overturn my personal interpretation.

Right, Scriputre does that.

I am not a grace gospel gentile. I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Same gospel. . .only one gospel.

Who knew 30 years ago that dispensationalism would lead to a false gospel?
That's what false doctrine does.
Cautionary tale. . .

So, how are you saved from God's condemnation of all mankind (Romans 5:18)?

Have you corrupted the only way to salvation also?

This is no gospel of Jesus, this is a spiritually fatal corruption of the gospel of Jesus.

ANATHEMA!
(Galatians 1:6-9)

BrotherJJ · Jul 13, 2021

Ligurian said:
These gospels, according to Paul, are two separate gospels.

There is only ONE gospel Jesus Christ today & applicable to ALL:

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you", which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(NOTE: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you")

2 "By which also ye are saved", if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(NOTE: "By which also ye are saved")

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how "that Christ died for our sins" according to the scriptures;
(NOTE: "that Christ died for our sins"

4 And "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day" according to the scriptures:
(NOTE: "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

Vrs 1-4 Recap: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you" "By which also ye are saved" is "that Christ died for our sins" "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

This ONE & ONLY gospel is accessed by God's grace thru Faith & Faith Alone: placed in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection.

Rom 5:
Therefore, since we have been justified [that is, acquitted of sin, declared blameless before God] by faith, [let us grasp the fact that] we have peace with God [and the joy of reconciliation with Him] through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).

2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this [remarkable state of] grace in which we [firmly and safely and securely] stand. Let us rejoice in our [a]hope and the confident assurance of [experiencing and enjoying] the glory of [our great] God [the manifestation of His excellence and power].
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - Amplified Bible

Ligurian · Jul 13, 2021

timothyu said:
That would be a gospel attributed to Paul, even though there are at least three references to him teaching Jesus' actual gospel, the good news of the Kingdom/governance of God returning to replace the kingdoms/self governance of mankind. It has been a simple matter for those more interested in defending the character of the world to do a simple switch so it sounds we can have it both ways (which we cannot) Repent means change, not self justify our actions and claiming we are saved regardless. The only saving Jesus did was to open a door and offer an alternative to mankind. Available only to those who reject our self serving nature for the will of God. All the rest are Lord Lords.

All in reference to the original Gospel of Jesus, the Gospel of the Kingdom, not the later gospel of Christianity which sought to build it's own kingdoms and govern man.

Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

We don't really know who Luke may have interviewed or whether his circle of friends had ever followed Jesus. Many things he says is never said even by Matthew who seems to have been able to take notes while hearing first-hand what Jesus teaches. This second-hand witnessing of Luke is a biography of Paul. But what's said in Acts about Peter makes me wonder how many Peters lived there.

BrotherJJ · Jul 13, 2021

timothyu said:
That would be a gospel attributed to Paul./QUOTE]

BrotherJJ · Jul 13, 2021

timothyu said:
That would be a gospel attributed to Paul./QUOTE]

There is only ONE gospel Jesus Christ today & applicable to ALL:

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you", which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(NOTE: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you")

2 "By which also ye are saved", if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(NOTE: "By which also ye are saved")

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how "that Christ died for our sins" according to the scriptures;
(NOTE: "that Christ died for our sins"

4 And "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day" according to the scriptures:
(NOTE: "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

Vrs 1-4 Recap: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you" "By which also ye are saved" is "that Christ died for our sins" "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

This ONE & ONLY gospel is accessed by God's grace thru Faith & Faith Alone: placed in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection.

Rom 5:
Therefore, since we have been justified [that is, acquitted of sin, declared blameless before God] by faith, [let us grasp the fact that] we have peace with God [and the joy of reconciliation with Him] through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).

2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this [remarkable state of] grace in which we [firmly and safely and securely] stand. Let us rejoice in our [a]hope and the confident assurance of [experiencing and enjoying] the glory of [our great] God [the manifestation of His excellence and power].
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - Amplified Bible

Ligurian · Jul 13, 2021

Clare73 said:
Right, Scriputre does that.

Same gospel. . .only one gospel.

So, how are you saved from God's condemnation of all mankind (Romans 5:18)?

Two separate gospels, according to Paul.
Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8

We know what Paul calls his Gospel:
1 Corinthians 1:23 Romans 4:4 Romans 5:18 Galatians 3:13

And we know what Jesus calls His Gospel:
Matthew 4:23 Matthew 5:19 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13

Ligurian · Jul 13, 2021

Clare73 said:
This is no gospel of Jesus, this is a spiritually fatal corruption of the gospel of Jesus.

ANATHEMA!
(Galatians 1:6-9)

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

A different gospel where the Holy Spirit is given by the works of Law.

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know Him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (pleroo = make replete)
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. (ginomai = come into being)
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Peter in Galatia

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia... 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear: ... 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ... 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (John 14:15-17)
2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Osee 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.LXX

Matthew 4:16-17 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Salvation vs : service.

timothyu · Jul 13, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
1 Cor 15:1 I declare the gospel which I preached to you. (2/A) By which also ye are saved. (3/A) Christ died for our sins. (4) was buried & that he rose again the third day" according to the scriptures:

Yes ... Ye are saved because of the good news of the Kingdom/governance of God returning to abolish the governance of man. The Christ died in order to make it happen by even unto death not putting his will ahead of the will of the Father who wished Him to die so that He could be the first worthy of resurrection of many who belonged to the Kingdom rather than the governments of man ... according to scriptures

You will notice here he takes an excerpt which resulted from Jesus doing only the will of the Father, and he says the he declares his own little bit of good news, (NOTE his own good news that he preached) NOT the Good News Jesus came to teach. Two bits of good news but only one came from the mouth of Jesus. This was conveniently twisted to become the salvation gospel of a future gentile church which is hot on salvation but avoids the Kingdom. Of course following the same self serving selfish path, greedy man also took it another selfish step further and tacked on the prosperity gospel to self justify man building our own kingdoms instead of the Kingdom of God.

They like to avoid the fact Paul is mentioned in scripture on at least 3 occasions teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (and not just casually mentioning but for over a period of years). This was the complete Gospel from Jesus that the church has spent millennia avoiding, preferring to self justify the building of their own kingdoms and exerting their own governance over mankind, contrary to the teachings in Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom where the only ruler can be free of the self serving ways of man. Clergy hardly fits that bill.

The salvation has become a matter of tradition with the blind repeating it to the blind as being Jesus' Gospel. But of course most of mankind wishing to retain their self serving ways avoid that fact and viciously defend a gospel that lets them have it both ways. That was never Paul's intention I don't believe but it sure became convenient for a gentile church building itself, not upon God's Kingdom, but in the same manner as man's institutions that went before, specifically the Roman form of governance. People of both gospels exist within Christianity but only one serves the Kingdom/governance of God.

Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Clare73 · Jul 14, 2021

Ligurian said:
Two separate gospels, according to Paul.

Does Jesus agree with that?

Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8
We know what Paul calls his Gospel:
1 Corinthians 1:23 Romans 4:4 Romans 5:18 Galatians 3:13
And we know what Jesus calls His Gospel:
Matthew 4:23 Matthew 5:19 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13

One would have to look far and wide to find a better example of 2 Timothy 2:15--failure to rightly divide (cut straight, handle) the word of truth.

So it took Christendom 2,000 years after Christ and the apostles to see this truth of the NT?

Poor God! . . .He really dropped the ball on that one! . . .I hope no one points it out to him, he worked so hard 'n all.

Clare73 · Jul 14, 2021

Ligurian said:
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

A different gospel where the Holy Spirit is given by the works of Law.

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know Him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (pleroo = make replete)
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. (ginomai = come into being)
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Peter in Galatia

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia... 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear: ... 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ... 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (John 14:15-17)
2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Osee 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.LXX

Matthew 4:16-17 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Salvation vs : service.

Please don't tell God how badly he failed here!

pescador · Jul 14, 2021

Ligurian said:
Two separate gospels, according to Paul.
Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8

We know what Paul calls his Gospel:
1 Corinthians 1:23 Romans 4:4 Romans 5:18 Galatians 3:13

And we know what Jesus calls His Gospel:
Matthew 4:23 Matthew 5:19 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13

It's apparent that you don't understand to whom they were writing. Paul wrote to the Christian churches in Rome, Corinth, and Galatia after the crucifixion and the giving of the Holy Spirit. Matthew wrote to the Jews prior to the crucifixion and the giving of the Holy Spirit.

As my English teacher used to say: "context, context, context"...

BrotherJJ · Jul 14, 2021

timothyu said:
Yes ... Ye are saved because of the good news of the Kingdom/governance of God returning to abolish the governance of man.

The Kingdom governance is SPIRITUAL!

Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(MY NOTE: This is a spirit promise that began in Acts 2:4. At Pentecost believers are INDWELT via the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU". The Kingdom of God is: SPIRITUAL: The Church/Body of Christ = Christ's spirit within you))

Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(MY NOTE: Born again = New spiritual birth/baptism preformed by Christ & Christ only (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33)

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit is what? SPIRITUAL!)

1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
(MY NOTE: The Kingdom of God is realized/accessed thru faith placed in Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection = SPIRITUAL POWER)

Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(MY NOTE: The Kingdom of God is: SPIRITUAL: The Church/Body of Christ = Christ's spirit within you)

There is only ONE gospel Jesus Christ today & applicable to ALL:

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you", which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(NOTE: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you")

2 "By which also ye are saved", if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(NOTE: "By which also ye are saved")

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how "that Christ died for our sins" according to the scriptures;
(NOTE: "that Christ died for our sins"

4 And "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day" according to the scriptures:
(NOTE: "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

Vrs 1-4 Recap: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you" "By which also ye are saved" is "that Christ died for our sins" "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

The Kingdom governance is SPIRITUAL! It's accessed by God's grace thru Faith & Faith Alone: placed in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection.

Rom 5:
Therefore, since we have been justified [that is, acquitted of sin, declared blameless before God] by faith, [let us grasp the fact that] we have peace with God [and the joy of reconciliation with Him] through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).

2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this [remarkable state of] grace in which we [firmly and safely and securely] stand. Let us rejoice in our [a]hope and the confident assurance of [experiencing and enjoying] the glory of [our great] God [the manifestation of His excellence and power].
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - Amplified Bible

timothyu · Jul 14, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
The Kingdom governance is SPIRITUAL!

Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. Repentance means change and that change is thinking spiritually, as in 'the will of God' rather than physically, the 'will of man'. If we can't learn to do that now and understand the reasoning behind it, don't book ahead for the new world when His Kingdom/governance comes. The ways of the world man has made in our own image is not the ways of God

Ligurian · Jul 14, 2021

pescador said:
It's apparent that you don't understand to whom they were writing. Paul wrote to the Christian churches in Rome, Corinth, and Galatia after the crucifixion and the giving of the Holy Spirit. Matthew wrote to the Jews prior to the crucifixion and the giving of the Holy Spirit.

As my English teacher used to say: "context, context, context"...

Context says it doesn't matter when these two very different gospels were written. Because Jesus spoke the Gospel of the Kingdom at the beginning of His priesthood through at least Matthew 26:13, and Matthew 28:18-20 says the message remained the same after Jesus Resurrected and returned. In fact, since Jesus says He brought the Commandments of the Father and taught them to His Disciples, John 12:48-50, the message stays the same for the two witnesses, as well.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

This woman is Heavenly Sion which gives birth to the Kingdom. Isaiah 66:7-8

Esaias 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool: what kind of a house will ye build Me? and of what kind is to be the place of My rest? 2 For all these things are Mine, saith the Lord: and to whom will I have respect, but to the humble and meek, and the man that trembles at My words? 3 But the transgressor that sacrifices a calf to Me, is as he that kills a dog; and he that offers fine flour, as one that offers swine’s blood; he that gives frankincense for a memorial, is as a blasphemer. Yet they have chosen their own ways, and their soul has delighted in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their mockeries, and will recompense their sins upon them; because I called them, and they did not hearken to Me; I spoke, and they heard not: and they did evil before Me, and chose the things wherein I delighted not. 5 Hear the words of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word; speak ye, our brethren, to them that hate you and abominate you, that the name of the Lord may be glorified, and may appear their joy; but they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of a cry from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord rendering recompence to his adversaries. 7 Before she that travailed brought forth, before the travail-pain came on, she escaped it and brought forth a male. 8 Who has heard such a thing? and who has seen after this manner? Has the earth travailed in one day? or has even a nation been born at once, that Sion has travailed, and brought forth her children?LXX

The giving of the Holy Spirit is told by Acts and John the beloved. John 20:19-22 says it happened the same day, and that the Holy Spirit was given by the breath of Jesus.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.KJV

timothyu · Jul 14, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(MY NOTE: This is a spirit promise that began in Acts 2:4. At Pentecost believers are INDWELT via the outpouring of the Holy Spirit "the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU". The Kingdom of God is: SPIRITUAL: The Church/Body of Christ = Christ's spirit within you))

Yes we have the ability to understand God's will unlike our brethren mammals.

BrotherJJ said:
Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(MY NOTE: Born again = New spiritual birth/baptism preformed by Christ & Christ only (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33)

Repentance (change) of the self serving ways of man for the will and ways of God.

BrotherJJ said:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit is what? SPIRITUAL!)

Contentment with the counter-culture of God's Kingdom compared to the world/culture man has made in our own image

BrotherJJ said:
1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
(MY NOTE: The Kingdom of God is realized/accessed thru faith placed in Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection = SPIRITUAL POWER)

Kingdom equates to governance which is His power, not ours

BrotherJJ said:
Lk 17:21 (B) Jesus said; Behold, "the kingdom of God is within you"
(MY NOTE: The Kingdom of God is: SPIRITUAL: The Church/Body of Christ = Christ's spirit within you)

We were given the ability to understand God's will in the Garden but chose to put our own will ahead of His. We have both abilities within us.

BrotherJJ said:
1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you", which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(NOTE: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you")

Yes, Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom

Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

BrotherJJ said:
2 "By which also ye are saved", if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(NOTE: "By which also ye are saved")

Yes ,believe in the Kingdom/governance of God being superior over the governance of man and we will be saved from out self-righteous selves

BrotherJJ said:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how "that Christ died for our sins" according to the scriptures;
(NOTE: "that Christ died for our sins"

Yes, to reverse the events of the Garden that has us cast out and bring the new Kingdom into being.

BrotherJJ said:
4 And "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day" according to the scriptures:
(NOTE: "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

Yes the first of the resurrected to the new kingdom.

BrotherJJ said:
Vrs 1-4 Recap: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you" "By which also ye are saved" is "that Christ died for our sins" "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

Yes but that is only a snippet of Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom. No Kingdom, no saved.

BrotherJJ said:
The Kingdom governance is SPIRITUAL! It's accessed by God's grace thru Faith & Faith Alone: placed in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection.

Yes faith that God's will is superior to the self serving will of man.

Ligurian · Jul 14, 2021

Ligurian said:
Two separate gospels, according to Paul.
Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8

We know what Paul calls his Gospel:
1 Corinthians 1:23 Romans 4:4 Romans 5:18 Galatians 3:13

And we know what Jesus calls His Gospel:
Matthew 4:23 Matthew 5:19 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13

Clare73 said:
Does Jesus agree with that?

One would have to look far and wide to find a better example of 2 Timothy 2:15--failure to rightly divide (cut straight, handle) the word of truth.

So it took Christendom 2,000 years after Christ and the apostles to see this truth of the NT?

Poor God! . . .He really dropped the ball on that one! . . .I hope no one points it out to him, he worked so hard 'n all.

Even the apostles saw it, you just haven't looked for it; and having it pointed out to you, you still won't see it.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Ligurian said:
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Gospel where the Holy Spirit is given by the works of Law.

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know Him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (pleroo = make replete)
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. (ginomai = come into being)
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Peter in Galatia

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia... 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear: ... 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ... 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (John 14:15-17)
2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Osee 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.LXX

Matthew 4:16-17 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Salvation vs : service.

Clare73 said:
Please don't tell God how badly he failed here!

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to perdition, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel of Jesus

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