Purpose of the sabbath

Yeshua HaDerekh

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I did not clearly say they were "all" Jews and I have even heard certain misguided teachers of the law describe the churches of Galatia as a mixture of Jews, Romans, Greeks and Gauls. There are those who were mixed up in a multiplicity of pagan superstitions and rituals, yet Paul also wrote to the Galatians to counter Judaizing false teachers who were undermining the central theme of justification by faith in Christ and were adding works of the law to the equation, as we see in Galatians chapter 3.

Yes you did regarding that passage in our discussion. I already posted what you wrote so it is there in black and white for all to see. Again, you are conflating 2 different passages and 2 different issues.
 
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Carl Emerson

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And where did I ever say I do not believe in eternal rest for the souls that are saved and what has this got to do with what you are quoting from?

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear.

According to the scriptures, whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin. If the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. We are sinners indeed but we have a Saviour for those that our Heavenly father have given ears to hear and eyes to see.

If our eyes are not open we cannot see the Garden of Eden or the paradise of God. Sin closes our eyes and makes us blind but seeking Jesus can open the blind eyes to see and the deaf to hear. Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not says Jesus, that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Do you know these scriptures Carl? I left the references out this time. Are they my words or God's Word? If they are God's Word should we believe them? Funny how people cry interpretation, interpretation when they do not want to hear the Word of God as written in Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:15-16 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. I will leave it between you and God to work through as I do not judge you and of course you are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day for the Words of God we accept or reject according to John 12:47-48.

Take care.

Yes I know the scriptures you are talking to someone who started reading the bible about 70 years ago.

It is not good enough to pretend that your interpretation is not judgemental.

Just quoting scripture alone, in itself, is no guarantee of presenting the truth - Satan tried that in the wilderness.

What would impress me more would be your relationship with the Father and how you have done the things you have seen Him doing - that would catch my attention much more than copious scriptures. And that is what Jesus said to the Pharisees.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes I know the scriptures you are talking to someone who started reading the bible about 70 years ago.

It is not good enough to pretend that your interpretation is not judgemental.

Just quoting scripture alone, in itself, is no guarantee of presenting the truth - Satan tried that in the wilderness.

What would impress me more would be your relationship with the Father and how you have done the things you have seen Him doing - that would catch my attention much more than copious scriptures. And that is what Jesus said to the Pharisees.
Carl as posted earlier, I do not judge you. It is the Word of God we accept or reject that becomes our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures (see John 12:47-48). If we feel judged by the scriptures shared with us then that is between us and God as it is God's Spirit according to the scriptures that convicts us of sin and of righteousness and of the judgment to come (John 16:8; John 8:9). We should be careful therefore if we feel judged by the scriptures when they are shared with us that we do not harden our hearts to seeing, hearing and believing God's Word (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31). According to the scriptures only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. There is no salvation outside of faith in Gods' Word or in disobedience to it Carl.
 
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Dkh587

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The Sabbath was given only to generational Israelites.

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Exo 31:16

"Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, H7676 to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant."
the new covenant with God & Israel, not God and the Gentiles Jeremiah 31:31-33. Have you excluded yourself from the covenant by trying to exclude yourself from obedience to God's commandments?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Carl as posted earlier, I do not judge you. It is the Word of God we accept or reject that becomes our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures (see John 12:47-48). If we feel judged by the scriptures shared with us then that is between us and God as it is God's Spirit according to the scriptures that convicts us of sin and of righteousness and of the judgment to come (John 16:8; John 8:9). We should be careful therefore if we feel judged by the scriptures when they are shared with us that we do not harden our hearts to seeing, hearing and believing God's Word (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31). According to the scriptures only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. There is no salvation outside of faith in Gods' Word or in disobedience to it Carl.

Yes that all sounds very nice - but your take on the scripture condemns millions of believers.

Your take on the scripture...

Your take on the scripture...

May God confirm His living Word that releases us from Law.

Amen - come Lord Jesus.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes that all sounds very nice - but your take on the scripture condemns millions of believers.

Your take on the scripture...

Your take on the scripture...

May God confirm His living Word that releases us from Law.

Amen - come Lord Jesus.

Scripture is God's Word dear Carl not my words. What is it in the scriptures that have been shared with you that you disagree with and why (scripture please)? If I am only sharing the scriptures with you Carl who is your argument with me or God? As posted earlier you are free to believe as you wish I do not judge you it is God's Words not mine that we all need to give account come judgement day *John 12:47-48 for the Words of God we accept or reject. I think deep down inside you know I am telling you the truth. Take care Carl, we all only have today. Lets all pray that none of us harden our hearts to seeing and believing Gods' Word.
 
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HIM

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Those Galatians, who Paul was speaking to, were former pagans. THAT is the context of the text in our discussions. You are conflating 2 different issues. Pagans did not know God, Jews did. Paul would have NEVER said that if they were Jews.
Conflating? No. You have a lot to contend with if you are going to continue teaching what you teach concerning these verses.


Questions....
What is it you think elemental practices is?

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Apparently Paul himself when he and his contemporaries were under the law, it being their Schoolmaster until Christ were in bondage to these SAME elemental practices.


Have you noticed Paul's use of the 2nd person and 1st person plural? Do you think all of a sudden he is speaking to a different group of people?



Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage (servitude) under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew (SEEN) not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

These people that Paul is talking to, he included himself with in verses 3-5. Then in verse 6 and 7 calls them sons and relays to them that they are no longer servants to the elemental practices that they were mentioned to being in verse 3

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew (SEEN) not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?



So you think that the days mentioned are related to their pagan worship and not to the ones subscribed to in the Book of the Law?

How is it then that the ones being spoken to are being zealously affected but not good by Judeans or Israelites if the days mentioned are not of the Book of the Law.


Gal 4:17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

And how is it that they desire to be under the law if the days, months and years are not of the law?

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Conflating? No. You have a lot to contend with if you are going to continue teaching what you teach concerning these verses.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew (SEEN) not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

These people that Paul is talking to, he included himself with in verses 3-5. Then in verse 6 and 7 calls them sons and relays to them that they are no longer servants to the elemental practices that they were mentioned to being in verse 3

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew (SEEN) not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

So you think that the days mentioned are related to their pagan worship and not to the ones subscribed to in the Book of the Law?

Yes, you are conflating 2 different issues. The Galatians were former PAGANS, NOT Jews. You can keep posting what you are but that does not change that. So WHO or WHAT "by nature are no gods"?? The Jewish God?? Pagan gods?? Nothing implies Paul is talking to Jews and everything to imply they were former PAGANS that did service to those "gods". BTW, not that I care, I looked at commentaries regarding this and found them agreeing with my position. You can think and believe whatever you want...
 
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Carl Emerson

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Scripture is God's Word dear Carl not my words. What is it in the scriptures that have been shared with you that you disagree with and why (scripture please)? If I am only sharing the scriptures with you Carl who is your argument with me or God? As posted earlier you are free to believe as you wish I do not judge you it is God's Words not mine that we all need to give account come judgement day *John 12:47-48 for the Words of God we accept or reject. I think deep down inside you know I am telling you the truth. Take care Carl, we all only have today. Lets all pray that none of us harden our hearts to seeing and believing Gods' Word.

Please...

As I have said - quoting scripture only, is not a ticket to Truth.

Satan tried that in the wilderness.

I have seen too much of my Father, and His Son to worry about your claims.

I do worry about others being dragged into your theology of legalism.
 
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Danthemailman

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Conflating? No. You have a lot to contend with if you are going to continue teaching what you teach concerning these verses.

Questions....
What is it you think elemental practices is?

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Apparently Paul himself when he and his contemporaries were under the law, it being their Schoolmaster until Christ were in bondage to these SAME elemental practices.

Have you noticed Paul's use of the 2nd person and 1st person plural? Do you think all of a sudden he is speaking to a different group of people?


Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage (servitude) under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew (SEEN) not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

These people that Paul is talking to, he included himself with in verses 3-5. Then in verse 6 and 7 calls them sons and relays to them that they are no longer servants to the elemental practices that they were mentioned to being in verse 3

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew (SEEN) not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

So you think that the days mentioned are related to their pagan worship and not to the ones subscribed to in the Book of the Law?

How is it then that the ones being spoken to are being zealously affected but not good by Judeans or Israelites if the days mentioned are not of the Book of the Law.


Gal 4:17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

And how is it that they desire to be under the law if the days, months and years are not of the law?

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
So it's not just me. ;)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Please...As I have said - quoting scripture only, is not a ticket to Truth. Satan tried that in the wilderness. I have seen too much of my Father, and His Son to worry about your claims. I do worry about others being dragged into your theology of legalism.

Now Carl, do you really need to spread untruthful slander about me? I do not believe in legalism whatsoever and have never said anything to make you think this is what I believe and feel quite disappointed you would seek to spend your time in slander and misinformation in order to avoid addressing the posts, questions and the scriptures that have been shared with you here.

Legalism is thinking one is saved by the works of the law apart from faith in Christ. Where did I ever say to you anywhere that we are saved by what we do apart from faith in Christ? If I have never said such things why are you pretending that I believe in something that I do not believe? What is it in the scriptures Carl that I have shared with you that you believe is not true and why?

Do you really need to go to that length to try and say things that are not true in order to avoid answering the questions that are asked and the scriptures that have been shared with you that disagree with you? Anyhow I will leave that between you and God. You can ignore the scriptures that have only been shared in love and as a help to you if you want to and of course you do not have to answer the questions that are asked of you if you do not want to. So everyone knows exactly what I believe let me show it here so there is no misunderstandings.

I believe according to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. As posted earlier, obedience to God's words are not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12.

Now what is it Carl in the scriptures that I have shared with you here that you do not think is true and why (scriptures please), and if I tell you the truth why do you not believe me? What is it here that I have posted that you claim is legalism? If I have posted nothing to show that what I believe is legalism why are you pretending that I have and bearing false witness against your brother in Christ?

Take care Carl.
 
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Danthemailman

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Please...

As I have said - quoting scripture only, is not a ticket to Truth.

Satan tried that in the wilderness.

I have seen too much of my Father, and His Son to worry about your claims.

I do worry about others being dragged into your theology of legalism.
Well said brother and I admire your heart for truth. :) I also admire your concern for others to not get dragged into legalism and I share your same concern.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Well said brother and I admire your heart for truth. :) I also admire your concern for others to not get dragged into legalism and I share your same concern.
Yes avoid the truth of God's Word at all costs and lets bare false witness, slander and misinformation instead about what people do not believe or have never said as a distraction to discussing the scriptures. This is what many said among themselves when they tried to put Jesus to death according to the scriptures. Anyhow I will leave that between those who say things falsely and God to work through as I have no interest in discussing slander and misinformation. Thank you for blessing me. You just made my day (Matthew 5:11).
 
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BABerean2

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the new covenant with God & Israel, not God and the Gentiles Jeremiah 31:31-33.

Paul contrasts the two covenants in the passage below written to a church mainly made up of former Gentiles. He talks about the Sinai Covenant in the past tense in verse 7.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Paul contrasts the two covenants in the passage below written to a church mainly made up of former Gentiles. He talks about the Sinai Covenant in the past tense in verse 7.
2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?.

What was the Sinai covenant? The ministration of the Spirit in the new covenant is a heart that loves and obeys Gods law through faith in the promises of God according to the scriptures (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:2-4). There is only condemnation and death in the letter of the law because it is through the law we have a knowledge of what sin is according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4. Therefore sin and condemnation and death is the problem not God's law which Paul calls holy just and good in Romans 7:12. The ministration of the Spirit is forgiveness from sin and condemnation and death and freedom to walk in newness of life (see Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16). Unless we are born again we cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven according to Jesus *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9 because sin (breaking God's law) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to *1 John 3:9-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Now what is it here that you disagree with?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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the new covenant with God & Israel, not God and the Gentiles Jeremiah 31:31-33. Have you excluded yourself from the covenant by trying to exclude yourself from obedience to God's commandments?

I am under the spirit of the law, not the letter.

Letter: Don't steal.
Spirit: Be generous.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am under the spirit of the law, not the letter.
No one is under the Spirit of the law if they are breaking the law according to the scriptures they are under the condemnation of the law standing guilty before God of sin which is the transgression of the law (Romans 3:19-20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). Neither do they know God according to 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6-9, because those who are under the Spirit of the law obey God's Law from the heart which is Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 to love in all those who believe Gods' Word according to the new covenant promise. Paul makes this clear in Romans 8:4 when he says that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (see also Romans 13:8-10). This is why Jesus say "on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. While in Romans 3:31 Paul says faith does not abolish God's law it fulfills God's law in those who believe and follow God's Word. According to Jesus God's salvation is from sin not to continue in known unrepentant sin in John 8:31-36. If we continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures once we have been given a knowledge of the truth and continue to reject Gods' Word there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come according to Hebrews 10:26-27 because we count the blood of the covenant and unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:29.
 
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No one is under the Spirit of the law if they are breaking the law according to the scriptures and neither do they know God according to 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6-9, because those who are under the Spirit of the law obey God's Law from the heart which is Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 to love. Paul makes this clear in Romans 8:4 when he says that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (see also Romans 13:8-10). While in Romans 3:31 Paul says faith does not abolish God's law it fulfills God's law in those who believe and follow God's Word.

Obeying the letter of the law is easy for those that have God's spirit. I don't even think about stealing, murder, adultery, lying, coveting, dishonoring my parents, etc. As Paul said, "God forbid". Fulfilling the law according to the spirit is also pretty easy, once you get the hang of it. And if I do slip up on either I can repent and be forgiven.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Obeying the letter of the law is easy for those that have God's spirit. I don't even think about stealing, murder, adultery, lying, coveting, dishonoring my parents, etc. As Paul said, "God forbid". Fulfilling the law according to the spirit is also pretty easy, once you get the hang of it. And if I do slip up on either I can repent and be forgiven.
Yet there are 10 commandments and James says in James 2:9-10 if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. As does Paul in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and John in 1 John 3:4. Yes I am referring to the one that God knew we would all forget and said "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" in Exodus 20:8-11. In times of ignorance God winks at according to Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow it *Hebrews 10:26-27. It is not God's will that we sin according to the scriptures but if any man sins we do indeed have an advocate with the father in Jesus Christ the righteous *1 John 2:1.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Yet there are 10 commandments and James says in James 2:9-10 if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. As does Paul in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and John in 1 John 3:4. Yes I am referring to the one that God knew we would all forget and said "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" in Exodus 20:8-11. In times of ignorance God winks at according to Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow it *Hebrews 10:26-27. It is not God's will that we sin according to the scriptures but if any man sins we do indeed have an advocate with the father in Jesus Christ the righteous *1 John 2:1.

Of course the Sabbath day is holy time. I keep it holy by resting on it.
 
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