Do Creationists Believe in Talking Snakes?

Dale · Jul 13, 2021

Fervent said:
What's rather strange to me is when professed believers accept God made everything from nothing, but then balk at God being able to do some trivial miracle.

Thanks for your contribution. I don't know which "trivial miracle" you are talking about, but consider this. If the talking snake in Genesis is a miracle, it isn't God's miracle. The talking snake didn't serve God's purpose.
I don't believe the Devil can work miracles.

Fervent · Jul 13, 2021

Dale said:
Thanks for your contribution. I don't know which "trivial miracle" you are talking about, but consider this. If the talking snake in Genesis is a miracle, it isn't God's miracle. The talking snake didn't serve God's purpose.
I don't believe the Devil can work miracles.

There are miracles that aren't God's? Do you think God has no part in upholding the laws of the universe themselves?

Dale · Jul 13, 2021

Fervent said:
There are miracles that aren't God's? Do you think God has no part in upholding the laws of the universe themselves?

Of course I believe that God upholds the laws of the universe.
Beyond that, you'll have to say which miracles you are talking about.

GenemZ · Jul 13, 2021

Dale said:
Thanks for your contribution. I don't know which "trivial miracle" you are talking about, but consider this. If the talking snake in Genesis is a miracle, it isn't God's miracle. The talking snake didn't serve God's purpose.
I don't believe the Devil can work miracles.

Satan has the power to do things that would be classified miracles. Just look at what happened when Moses first appeared before Pharaoh's court in Exodus 7. The snake of Moses staff ate up the snakes given by Pharaoh's priests.

But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret
arts, and Pharaoh’s heart became hard; he would not listen to
Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said.

Follow the sequence... Trivial miracles by Satan? But they could be classified as miracles.

The talking snake in the Garden did serve God's purpose.

It tripped up Satan. It was the beginning of the end for Satan and his angels.

God is deceiving the deceiver all the time by letting Satan be Satan..

It will all come out at the right time.

Fervent · Jul 13, 2021

Dale said:
Of course I believe that God upholds the laws of the universe.
Beyond that, you'll have to say which miracles you are talking about.

Gravity. Nuclear Strong. Nuclear Weak. Electromagnetism. Those miracles.

GenemZ · Jul 13, 2021

Fervent said:
Gravity. Nuclear Strong. Nuclear Weak. Electromagnetism. Those miracles.

Come to think of it.... even fire. Why does fire spread and grow?

And, destroy what it grows on?

Dale · Jul 15, 2021

Fervent said:
Gravity. Nuclear Strong. Nuclear Weak. Electromagnetism. Those miracles.

Most people use "miracle" when they mean a violation of natural law, or at least something that seems to us to be a violation of the usual laws of nature. Gravity, etc., are natural laws. That's no problem as long as people understand how you're using the word.

Fervent · Jul 15, 2021

Dale said:
Most people use "miracle" when they mean a violation of natural law, or at least something that seems to us to be a violation of the usual laws of nature. Gravity, etc., are natural laws. That's no problem as long as people understand how you're using the word.

Miracle is rarely well-defined in discussion, and questions of whether there is a "natural" and "supernatural" distinction often rely on artificial constructs. My point is simply that those "natural laws" are in fact the action of God, they are not self-supporting facts. The exceptional miracles don't have a separate causation from "natural" causation, both are in fact caused by the will of God.

Dale · Jul 20, 2021

Fervent said:
Miracle is rarely well-defined in discussion, and questions of whether there is a "natural" and "supernatural" distinction often rely on artificial constructs. My point is simply that those "natural laws" are in fact the action of God, they are not self-supporting facts. The exceptional miracles don't have a separate causation from "natural" causation, both are in fact caused by the will of God.

I thoroughly agree that natural laws are the result of action by God. The problem is that creationists seem to think that any attempt to observe and understand those laws is a threat to their religion.

GenemZ · Jul 20, 2021

When miracles take place on a daily basis and is common to all we fail to recognize them.

Our heart beats without our will being involved. We breath and our lungs extract the oxygen from the air that just so happens to be there.... Not to mention we have no say in our digestive system doing its work.

Fervent · Jul 20, 2021

Dale said:
I thoroughly agree that natural laws are the result of action by God. The problem is that creationists seem to think that any attempt to observe and understand those laws is a threat to their religion.

It's not the observation of the laws, but the insistence on a myth that such laws have proceeded uninterrupted from the beginning of time. God's word is a sure foundation, empirical data and human wisdom simply leads to follly. What is revealed is contingent on the assumptions it is built on, and scientific reconstruction is based on false assumptions.

GenemZ · Jul 20, 2021

Look....If you were God? Would secular scientists bother you?

Satan gets the stupid ones.

Imagine if your claim to fame was the ability to win over the stupid?

Paradox.79 · Jul 23, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
I guess Numbers 22 is also just a myth to you then?

"When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”
The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?”
“No,” he said.
Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown." - Numbers 22:27-31

You either believe God's word or you don't. Cherry-picking from the Bible is very questionable.

I do not, I believe the bible is a book that is very parable and fable oriented. A good portion of what the bible taught in the old testament has debunked. Diseases are not caused by evil spirits, the earth is not flat nor is it the center of the universe as was taught up to about 5/600 years ago.
There earth and universe is not 7 or 8000 years old its billions Astronomy and Geology have proven that. The biggest ships on the planet today are bigger than ark and they could hold 2 or 7 of every land animal and there would have been more animals 4300 years ago not less, 4300 years ago is the rough estimate the bible gives for the great flood, at the time of the great flood the great pyramids had been for several hundred years...such a flood would have destroyed them. Now there have been great floods in the past that are probably the basis for the flood story. Earthquakes and Volcanoes would have been the hand of god. I swear if there was line in the bible that said 10+10 was 2 Christians would argue to know end that it was two even though we know its 20. Most Historians even atheist ones agree Jesus existed, the miracles are mater of faith. So I believe in Christ but I consider much of the old testament to be parable and part history

Friedrich Rubinstein · Jul 23, 2021

Paradox.79 said:
I do not, I believe the bible is a book that is very parable and fable oriented. A good portion of what the bible taught in the old testament has debunked. Diseases are not caused by evil spirits, the earth is not flat nor is it the center of the universe as was taught up to about 5/600 years ago.
There earth and universe is not 7 or 8000 years old its billions Astronomy and Geology have proven that. The biggest ships on the planet today are bigger than ark and they could hold 2 or 7 of every land animal and there would have been more animals 4300 years ago not less, 4300 years ago is the rough estimate the bible gives for the great flood, at the time of the great flood the great pyramids had been for several hundred years...such a flood would have destroyed them. Now there have been great floods in the past that are probably the basis for the flood story. Earthquakes and Volcanoes would have been the hand of god. I swear if there was line in the bible that said 10+10 was 2 Christians would argue to know end that it was two even though we know its 20. Most Historians even atheist ones agree Jesus existed, the miracles are mater of faith. So I believe in Christ but I consider much of the old testament to be parable and part history

I believe that Jesus healed the physically sick instantly and without even touching them (which literally means that God commands the atoms/cells of the body, defying all human "science"), I believe that Jesus walked on water (again defying all human "science"), and that Jesus turned water into wine (which literally means that the jugs out of nowhere contained ingredients that were not there before, defying all human "science").
Now tell me a reason why I should believe that God cannot make an animal talk?

FaithT · Jul 23, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
I believe that Jesus healed the physically sick instantly and without even touching them (which literally means that God commands the atoms/cells of the body, defying all human "science"), I believe that Jesus walked on water (again defying all human "science"), and that Jesus turned water into wine (which literally means that the jugs out of nowhere contained ingredients that were not there before, defying all human "science").
Now tell me a reason why I should believe that God cannot make an animal talk?

Does Paradox think Christians are flat earthers?

Friedrich Rubinstein · Jul 23, 2021

Hope1960 said:
Does Paradox think Christians are flat earthers?

I don't think he wanted to say that all Christians are flat earthers, but he thinks that those who take the Bible literally must be flat earthers.
Unfortunately there is so much flawed thinking in his post that it's not worth to word a more specific reply to it than I gave above.

J_B_ · Jul 23, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
I believe that Jesus healed the physically sick instantly and without even touching them (which literally means that God commands the atoms/cells of the body, defying all human "science"), I believe that Jesus walked on water (again defying all human "science"), and that Jesus turned water into wine (which literally means that the jugs out of nowhere contained ingredients that were not there before, defying all human "science").
Now tell me a reason why I should believe that God cannot make an animal talk?

Yeah. I don't get why this is an issue. These types of questions just seem like click bait.

If you believe, why is the miraculous a question?
If an unbeliever understands how believers perceive the miraculous, why bother to ask? It's not as if the debate is about whether snakes could talk if God didn't exist.

But, if there's a sincere question in here, I'm willing to listen. I'd be curious to know what the motivation is.

J_B_ · Jul 23, 2021

Paradox.79 said:
Most Historians even atheist ones agree Jesus existed ...

Yes.

Paradox.79 said:
... the miracles are mater of faith.

Also yes.

Paradox.79 said:
So I believe in Christ ...

That's good, though I wonder what that means to you.

Paradox.79 said:
... but I consider much of the old testament to be parable and part history

Hmm. This begs the question: Do you think God is powerful enough to do miraculous things?

Do Creationists Believe in Talking Snakes?

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