The Gospel of Jesus

Clare73 · Jul 10, 2021

timothyu said:
But that truth did not come to fruition where it could be called truth until He completed His mission of no will of His own but only that of the Father. Had He failed at the last moment before death, we would not be discussing this.

Not according to what he told Pilate--he said he is (not "would be") a king, that it was the reason he was born (John 18:37).

There is no NT teaching that Jesus was not king until he "completed his mission of no will of his own but only that of the Father;" i.e., after he died.

That is a human fabrication of not rightly dividing (cutting straight, handling) the word of truth.
(2 Timothy 2:15)

The eternal kingdom was set up at the first coming of Christ (Daniel 2:44-45)--a spiritual kingdom, invisible and within (Luke 17:20-21).

timothyu · Jul 10, 2021

Had Jesus sidestepped the crucifixion, He would be unworthy of being king of His Father's Kingdom.

Clare73 · Jul 10, 2021

timothyu said:
Had Jesus sidestepped the crucifixion,
He would be unworthy of being king of His Father's Kingdom.

He is God!

God is never "unworthy."

There is no basis for this notion in NT teaching, it is totally a fabrication of man.

timothyu · Jul 10, 2021

Clare73 said:
There is no basis for this notion in NT teaching, it is totally a fabrication of man.

Do you not see the reversal of the Garden using a second Adam? The temptation must be there for him as it is for us in order to accomplish anything. Second birth overcomes the flesh.

Clare73 · Jul 11, 2021

timothyu said:
Do you not see the reversal of the Garden using a second Adam? The temptation must be there for him as it is for us in order to accomplish anything.
Second birth overcomes the flesh.

Yes, he was tempted. . .to the point where the stress nearly killed him in Gethsemane.

If Jesus side-stepped the crucifixion, he would not be God.
There are no disagreements in the Trinity.

Jesus was not born again, because he did not need to be, not being a son of Adam.
(I see your metaphorical parallel of the first Adam being born again in the Second Adam.
However, Scripture parallels them, it does not unite them into one being who is spiritually reborn.)
Right?

Bro.T · Jul 11, 2021

Clare73 said:
So how did you miss what the Lord reveals all over the Bible in Daniel, Luke, John, 1 Corinthians, Ephesians and 1 Peter?

That his kingdom is on earth, right now, set up during the Roman empire of 63BC - 476AD at Christ's first coming, in fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Daniel 2:31-35), interpreted to him by/in Daniel 2:36-45, where God set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, will crush all other kingdoms, and will endure forever (Daniel 2:44).

There is no other kingdom of God than the everlasting one set up by Jesus at his first coming, the eternal kingdom, which has come--is among us (Luke 11:20), spiritual--within and invisible (Luke 17:20-21). God does not have two temporal earthly kingdoms.
That is a false notion of man, so suitable to his fancy that he thinks it is from God.
It will be the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness, no sin--sin free!
Are you sure about that?

"Father, I will those you have given me to be with me where I am. . ." (John 17:24)

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of man."
(John 3:13)

Past tense. . .relevance?

Not according to the fulfilled prophecy of Daniel 2:44-45, and not according to Jesus in Luke 11:20, Luke 17:20-21. . .that was all eternally set up at Jesus' first coming during the Roman empire.
And we are now a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9), seated with Christ in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2:6), reigning with him until he puts all enemies under his feet (1 Corinthians 15:25).

Well...let take a look at what Jesus says in John 18: 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Let's see this fight begin in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now we looking at the beginning of Jesus kingdom starting right after the great tribulation. Let's fast forward for time sake in the future. Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So there's two way to get in Jesus kingdom, one is coming up in the first resurrection and this will be the dead in Christ as well as the living in Christ. The other way is if you happen to make it through the great tribulation and did not get the mark of the beast.

Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52)

These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12) Notice the saints kept the commandments, these are the Ten Commandments brothers and Sisters. The other way getting in Jesus kingdom is to live through these events. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. (Revelation 7: 9,10)

Now right before the Father's kingdom is the Great White throne Judge. Now this is everyone on earth who is still sleep or dead and those that made it in Jesus kingdom through the great tribulation. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20: 11-15)

So now, let's take a look at the Father kingdom coming. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. (Revelation 21: 1-5, 22, 23)

So Jesus been on earth for thousand years, and here come the Father out of heaven coming down.

So we have a new heaven and a new earth, new Jerusalem the Father and Son, now on earth. This is the kingdom to come. Take a look at what Jesus says in Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The spiritual part of the Kingdom is Jesus. Jesus is teaching you, by repentance and doing the Father will. But Jesus left and set on the right hand of the Father. So the kingdom is gone and will be back on earth at Jesus second coming.

Clare73 · Jul 11, 2021

Bro.T said:
Well...let take a look at what Jesus says in John 18: 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Let's see this fight begin in Matthew 24: 29

On what basis do you say that it began at the end of time?
Jesus said it was the end of the age; i.e., the end of time (Matthew 24:3), not the beginning of anything temporal.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and

they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And the NT teaches that second coming is at the end of time; at the resurrection of all mankind
in the last day, (John 6:39-40, 44, 54, John 11:24; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54)
which Bibically is Judgment Day; at the trumpet call of God, which Biblically is a summons to judgment (Hosea 5:8-9, Hosea 8:1; Amos 2:1-2; Zephaniah 1:15-17; cf Exodus 19:16-17),
when all believers shall then be with the Lord forever (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), and
which is the hope of all believers (1 Thessalonians 5:10; John 14:3; 2 Corinthians 5:8).

Now we looking at the beginning of Jesus kingdom starting right after the great tribulation. Let's fast forward for time sake in the future. Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So there's two way to get in Jesus kingdom, one is coming up in the first resurrection

The NT does not teach two resurrections, it teaches one resurrection in the last day,
at the Final Judgment, at the end of time (see previous response).

and this will be the dead in Christ as well as the living in Christ. The other way is if you happen to make it through the great tribulation and did not get the mark of the beast.

Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52)

These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12) Notice the saints kept the commandments, these are the Ten Commandments brothers and Sisters. The other way getting in Jesus kingdom is to live through these events. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. (Revelation 7: 9,10)

Now right before the Father's kingdom is the Great White throne Judge.

The NT teaches no such thing.

The NT teaches that the kingdom is not of this material world (John 18:36),
that it is spiritual, invisible and within (Luke 17:20-21),
set up at Christ's first coming during the Roman empire (in fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel 2:44-45), an eternal kingdom never ending.
The NT teaches one temporal earthly kingdom, it does not teach two--the eternal one set up at his first coming, and another one set up along side it at the end of time at his second coming, which second coming the NT teaches is at the end of time--in the last day, at the Final Judgment.

A temporal kingdom set up at the second coming contradicts authoritative NT teaching.

Now this is everyone on earth who is still sleep or dead and those that made it in Jesus kingdom through the great tribulation. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20: 11-15)

So now, let's take a look at the Father kingdom coming. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. (Revelation 21: 1-5, 22, 23)

So Jesus been on earth for thousand years,

And hasn't aged a bit?

None of this is based in NT teaching, and all of it is a contradiction of authoritative NT teaching,
derived from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (Numberas 12:8), which riddles are subject to more than one interpretation, and any interprtation not in agreement with authoritative NT teaching is contra-Biblical, setting the Bible in contradiction against itself, proving the error of the personal interpretation.

and here come the Father out of heaven coming down.
So we have a new heaven and a new earth,

The new heavens and new earth are the result of the destruction by fire of the current heavens and earth, and are the new creation of the eternal heaven and earth, the home of righteousness where there is no sin.

new Jerusalem the Father and Son, now on earth. This is the kingdom to come. Take a look at what Jesus says in Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The spiritual part of the Kingdom is Jesus. Jesus is teaching you, by repentance and doing the Father will. But Jesus left and set on the right hand of the Father.

So the kingdom is gone and will be back on earth at Jesus second coming.

This is contrary to authoritative NT teaching.

The kingdom is not gone. . .it never left. . .because it is spiritual, invisible and within (Luke 17:20-21) the hearts of those where Jesus reigns and rules for all time and eternity.

This whole scenario is contra-NT, an invention of man so suitable to his own fancy that you will not separate him from it.

It puts the glory of the earthly kingdom of Israel at the center of God's plan in creation, rather than
putting at the center of God's plan the glory of Christ Jesus, his atonement for sin and the restoration of all creation in the new eternal creation.

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

GDL said:
But he taught one truth as foundational - the only foundation that can be built upon:

NKJ 1 Cor. 3:10-11 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name (authority).

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

Guojing said:
The NT did not start in Matthew 1:1, it only started after Christ died on the cross. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

Well that's not true, is it.

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to the Disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body. 27 And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins. John 1:1 John 6:35 John 12:48-50

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

If what this woman did in preparation for His burial is the Gospel, then Jesus lived and taught the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

FutureAndAHope said:
I feel that you have a bit of a misunderstanding as to what the Kingdom of God is about. Jesus said

Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The kingdom of God is about abiding in the Holy Spirit. The believer has the Holy Spirit in them, and He the Holy Spirit motivates our good works.

Although there will be a time when Christ will be on earth, it is not God's purpose for us to live on this earth.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I believe the verses you quoted in Mathew have little to do with an earthly kingdom. But rather are a mirror, showing us what we become in Christ.

Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

God is not saying we are blessed when we are sad, no, rather that the sad receive comfort in Christ.

Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

And in this verse, the meek, timid, would normally not inherit anything, but God says in Christ you shall inherit the earth.

The passage is saying what we have in Christ. We were once powerless, not able to have life, but Christ grants us life.

Luke wasn't a Disciple of Jesus, was he? John 17:20 says we believe on Jesus through the words of those given to Him by the Father. Not by hearsay.

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
I find this thread a little weird...

Surely The Kingdom exists where Jesus reigns.

If we are truely of Him He reigns in us.

If we hear the Gospel and respond in repentance, the kingdom is extended.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work without law. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

d taylor said:
I am not disputing that, that is not going to happen.

But when Jesus was going around in Jerusalem, stating that the Kingdom is at hand. He really meant, right then and there, He was there offering the Kingdom to Israel. All was needed was for the Nation of Israel to believe, He was who He said He was "The promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh"

So move forward 2000+ years, you or any believer does not know when the kingdom will be here. It may start next week but also it may be 25, 50, 100, 200, etc.. years from now.

But what is reality is that people are dying each day without receiving Gods free gift of Eternal Life.

Where do we see Jesus preaching the Kingdom is at hand in Jerusalem? I see that happening in Galilee... where the divided kingdom called Israel lived... not in the divided kingdom called Judea where they tried to kill Him early on John 7.

Paul... who talks about your free gift... actually is shown teaching the Jews. These gospels, according to Paul, are two separate gospels. Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8 And we know that Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom because Jesus tells us so. Matthew 4:23

Matthew 26:13 If what this woman did in preparation for His burial is the Gospel, then Jesus lived and taught the Gospel of the Kingdom. Matthew 24:14 And so did his Galilean Disciples Matthew 10:7 Matthew 28:18-20

Guojing · Jul 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
Well that's not true, is it.

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to the Disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body. 27 And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins. John 1:1 John 6:35 John 12:48-50

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

If what this woman did in preparation for His burial is the Gospel, then Jesus lived and taught the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus did not shed his blood at the Last Supper. The blood was shed at the cross

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

GDL said:
Just by using the name "Jesus" and connecting it to His title/position "Christ," we're talking about the King to whom all knees shall bow. Thus His - the Eternal King's - Commission to make disciples/disciple/teach/instruct "all the nations" - baptizing and teaching them to guard/keep/obey all He commands. Thus Paul's stated Apostleship for "obedience of faith in all the nations" on behalf of the name of Jesus the Christ (Romans 1:5; 16:26 effectively bookending Romans).

Well, that doesn't work, does it. Paul wasn't there for the great commission or for the John 17 prayer to the Father.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

These gospels, according to Paul, are two separate gospels. Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8 And we know what Jesus calls His gospel. Matthew 26:13

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

Guojing said:
Jesus did not shed his blood at the Last Supper. The blood was shed at the cross

I'm taking His word for it. Don't let that hurt your feelings.

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to the Disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body. 27 And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.

The blood on the cross was that of the passover Lamb...

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Exodus 12:21 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning. ... 26 And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service? 27 that ye shall say to them, "This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses."

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

GDL said:
NIV Notes (Luk 17:21): Notes: 1 Or is within you

The concern for me is how much we spiritualize the Kingdom vs. how much we understand that the earth and Heaven - to which He has been granted all authority - is all His and He has commanded that His people make the nations aware of this & teach them all He commands.

John 17:4 I have glorified Thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest Me to do. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

There is no Luke in that list.

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
All foundational truth needed for salvation was offered in the scripture I shared with you.

1 Cor 15:2-4 Christ died for your sins, was buried & rose on the 3rd day.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Where in the kingdom message do I find Christ's salvations death & resurrection foundational truth message?

BTW Messiah/Christ wasn't promised to gentiles. Pre-resurrection gentiles had no relationship with God.

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Additional help:
Though told the apostles did not understand that Messiah was going to die or rise from the dead. (Matt 16:21-22, Lk 18:33-34, & Jn 20:9)

Messiah's, earthly/walk, fleshly/ministry. Was to and only to the Jews = the circumcision.

Matt 10:5 Messiah sent forth the 12 & commanded them. To not go the Gentiles or into any city of the Samaritans
(NOTE: Samaritans were Jewish descendants from Ephraim and the half-tribe of Manasseh. They had inter married & were considered 1/2 breeds by the Jews. Jesus say's DON'T go to GENTILES)

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(NOTE: Messiah is sent, & sends his disciples to, the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Matt 15:24 Messiah answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(NOTE: Messiah say's; He has been sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(NOTE: Messiah came to preach to the circumcision (Jews only) & to fulfil promises made to the circumcision's fathers, NOT GENTILES)

Acts 10:28 Peter said unto them, Ye know how that it is an """unlawful""" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean
(NOTE: Peter tells Cornelius a gentile. It's UNLAWFUl for a Jew to keep company with a gentile)

Pre-cross, Jews often referred to Gentiles as "dogs". (See Matt 7:6; Lk 16:21) To include the Lord Himself (Matt 15:26)

Gentiles were considered so ungodly, being in their presence could make a Jew ceremonially unclean (Jn 18:28)

Broad brushing gentiles into Jesus pre-death & resurrection kingdom message is unscriptural. Pease JJ

John 12:31-33 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. This he said, signifying what death He should die.

helkuo = from haireomai, to drag, draw.
haireomai = to take for oneself

The added word [men] doesn't belong there. Because this is where Jesus takes the title deed of Earth from the prince of the world. prince = angel ... So Jesus was murdered, and the whole world became His, because His Resurrection defeats Death. This is the seed of Heavenly Sion crushing the head of the serpent.

Matthew 28:16 Then the Eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ligurian · Jul 11, 2021

nolidad said:
Myriads of people will give myriads of ideas as to what teh gospel of Jesus is. It will all depend on what they are focusing on.

But the gospel Jesus preached was purely a Jewish only gospel. He came to His own to announce the long awaited Kingdom promised to Israel had arrived (in th e person of the King). If they had accepted that, He would have still died under Pilate for the sins of the world, but when He arose He would hav vanquished HIs enemies and began the kingdom on earth as was often promised to happen. But that is moot because it was prophesied that Israel would reject Jesus at His first coming so we have history unfolding.

It is incorrect to call the whole divided kingdom by the name of its southern 2 tribes. We know that the lost sheep lived in Galilee because that's where Jesus found them. Jesus tells us what His gospel is in no uncertain terms at the Sermon on the Mount. It is a gospel of works. If ye love Me keep My commandments.

d taylor · Jul 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
Where do we see Jesus preaching the Kingdom is at hand in Jerusalem? I see that happening in Galilee... where the divided kingdom called Israel lived... not in the divided kingdom called Judea where they tried to kill Him early on John 7.

Paul... who talks about your free gift... actually is shown teaching the Jews. These gospels, according to Paul, are two separate gospels. Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8 And we know that Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom because Jesus tells us so. Matthew 4:23

Matthew 26:13 If what this woman did in preparation for His burial is the Gospel, then Jesus lived and taught the Gospel of the Kingdom. Matthew 24:14 And so did his Galilean Disciples Matthew 10:7 Matthew 28:18-20

So i get mixed up writing and meant Israel when i was thinking of this verse. Were it states And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.”

As for your other comment, not sure if you are trying to say there are two Gospels on how to receive Eternal Life. If that is the case, i will not waste my time on that.

BrotherJJ · Jul 12, 2021

Ligurian said:
John 12:31-33 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. This he said, signifying what death He should die.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is:

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you", which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(NOTE: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you")

2 "By which also ye are saved", if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(NOTE: "By which also ye are saved")

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how "that Christ died for our sins" according to the scriptures;
(NOTE: "that Christ died for our sins"

4 And "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day" according to the scriptures:
(NOTE: "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

Vrs 1-4 Recap: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you" "By which also ye are saved" is "that Christ died for our sins" "that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day"

The Gospel of Jesus

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