Purpose of the sabbath

GallagherM said:

Resting in the Lord is my consideration of an every single day sabbath. .

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I appreciate the fact that you identify yourself as the source for that.

You have free will... you can do as you wish

OldWiseGuy said:

God sanctified the seventh day in Genesis. .

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And in Ex 20:11 God says that - that act alone - makes it binding on mankind

Religiot said:

.....why not just read the actual gospel account, which shows, beyond any doubt, that the Lord resurrected on the first day of the week, instead of attempting a peace-mill contradictory reading?

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Ok Jesus was resurrected on week-day-1. In Ex 20 and Gen 2 - we find that it was the 7th day that was set apart as a holy day.

Concerning the Sabbath...

Jesus spoke in parables.

He did this to make sure that the realisation of truth would depend not on the worlds wisdom but on God'e Spirit of Truth.

The Scripture is similar - all scripture is inspired by God and is only understood when the Spirit of God gifts understanding.

So concerning the Sabbath I read endless wrangling about various theories as the scriptures are analysed by the human mind and holding fast to ones 'truth' is considered 'faithfullness'

Here is a different approach for your consideration.

God the creator is outside of chronological time.

The first 6 days of creation were epochs. We know that time to God is different than human experience of time. (the references to a thousand years to a day are simply illustrating this)

So during the first six days of creation God participated in creation time.

Then having finished creating He rested in His timelessness again.

Through the Cross which is also a timeless event anchored in chronology, believers are gifted with God's rest through the obedience of Jesus.

This Sabbath Rest is timeless and has no relation to any calendar event.

For this reason we should not be judged by those trying to tie believers down to a particular day.

This is also what Paul was saying.

I would appreciate discussion around this without getting into a verse fight.

Deleted

klutedavid said:

Your making the same mistake that Peter was making.

Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Gentiles do not follow the law of Moses, Gentiles were never commanded to follow the law of Moses.

Your trying to get Gentiles to obey the law and that is unforgivable.

Gentiles are members of the new covenant and not members of that old covenant (Mt Sinai).

Gentiles don't celebrate Passover.

Gentiles don't celebrate the feast of unleavened bread.

Gentiles are not required to honor the Sabbath.

Gentiles cannot be circumcised.

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In Acts 10:28, Peter referred to a law that forbid Jews to visit or associate with Gentiles, which is not found anywhere in the Mosaic Law, and is therefore a man-made law. It was this law that he was obeying in Galatians 2:11-16 when he stopped visiting or associating with the Gentiles, and by doing so he was giving credibility to those who were wanting to require Gentiles how to obey their works of the law in order to become justified, which is why Paul rebuked him and reiterated that we are justified by faith, not by works of the law. So you are wrong to say that I am making the same mistake Peter made.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, which was a light to the Gentiles (Matthew 4:15-23), so I am by no means doing something that is unforgivable by bringing light to the Gentiles through spreading the Gospel message. Christ also spent his ministry setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he taught his followers how to obey it by word and by example, and Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against Gentiles following Christ and against the Gospel message.

Studyman said:

True. But so as not to be confused, I don't find that it was Sign of the Levitical Covenant God made with Levi, "because of transgressions" till the Seed should come. Rather, it seems to have been a sign of the furtherance of the Covenant God made with Abraham. As it is certainly part of the Laws, Commandments, Statutes and Judgments of God Abraham is said to have obeyed. Not a sign of the Covenant God made with Levi, on Israel's behalf, 430 years after Abraham. (As Levi was not yet even born in Abraham's time)

I say this only because of the popular religious practice of not separating the two Covenants. (Which I don't see you do, but lots of others I do )

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I was speaking of Exodus 31:13-14
Shavua tov

Soyeong said:

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, which was a light to the Gentiles (Matthew 4:15-23), so I am by no means doing something that is unforgivable by bringing light to the Gentiles through spreading the Gospel message.

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Jesus was "sent only" to the lost Israelites living in the region. A careful study of Matthew 4:15 will reveal that.

OldWiseGuy said:

Jesus was "sent only" to the lost Israelites living in the region. A careful study of Matthew 4:15 will reveal that.

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Go into all the world, to all Nations, to every creature preaching the Gospel, teaching ALL that Christ had commanded AND that repentance and remission of sins be preached in His name

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

HIM said:

Go into all the world, to all Nations, to every creature preaching the Gospel, teaching ALL that Christ had commanded AND that repentance and remission of sins be preached in His name

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

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That is "The Great Commission", but Jesus himself went only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel as he was instructed to do.

OldWiseGuy said:

That is "The Great Commission", but Jesus himself went only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel as he was instructed to do.

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The great commission mirrored His. They taught what he taught including repentance and remission of sins.

OldWiseGuy said:

Jesus was "sent only" to the lost Israelites living in the region. A careful study of Matthew 4:15 will reveal that.

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The verse clearly refers to nations. Jesus did spend his ministry focused on Jews, through he did prophecy that the Gospel would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14) and he commissioned his disciples to make disciples of all nations, so there is the theme of to the Jew first, then to the nations insofar as Jews are being given the opportunity to fulfill the God-given role of being a light and a blessing to the nations (Isaiah 2:2-3, 49:6). Gentiles should be concerned with the way to become part of Israel through faith in Christ.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Thank you, that was all I was asking. Dan in his OP implied they were Jews. So he WAS wrong as I said.

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Thanks Yesh, late to this one. I enjoyed following the conversation with @Danthemailman . I see I am not needed here. Keep up the good work.

God bless.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Thank you, that was all I was asking. Dan in his OP implied they were Jews. So he WAS wrong as I said.

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I did not imply they were all Jews as I pointed out in post #112. Being right or wrong about that is not what’s most important. What is most important is that we don’t make the same fatal mistake the Judaizers made as I also pointed out in post #112.

Purpose of the sabbath

OldWiseGuy said:

Jesus was "sent only" to the lost Israelites living in the region. A careful study of Matthew 4:15 will reveal that.

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4:15 "Galilee OF THE GENTILES"

Jesus went out of his way for the Syrophoenician woman and heal her daughter.
Jesus healed a number of gentiles during his ministry, but for the sake of the highly prejudiced Jews He did not do much more.

John 12:
20 Now there were some Greeks among those who were going up to worship at the feast; 21 these then came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and began to ask him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” 22 Philip *came and *told Andrew; Andrew and Philip *came and *told Jesus. 23 And Jesus *answered them, saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. 26 If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

Jesus Foretells His Death
27 “Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.” 30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.

WOW that was a whopping testimony "to Greeks" to have God the Father speak in response to Jesus' request and to have Jesus foretell his death.

The Magi that came at Christ's birth - were gentiles
Luke 7 - Centurion's servant healed- gentiles

"God so loved the WORLD that He gave" - John 3:16 -- not "just Jews"
The Jews were to be world-wide evangelists -- they failed in their mission, they rejected it.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

BobRyan said:

4:15 "Galilee OF THE GENTILES"

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Galilee of the Gentiles just reveals where Jesus began his ministry. He was sent only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel".

Jesus preached to the remnant of the house of Israel living in the region.

Read this account carefully from Matthew 15,

21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

OldWiseGuy said:

Galilee of the Gentiles just reveals where Jesus began his ministry. He was sent only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel".

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John 4 - Jesus is offering eternal life to Samaritans - not "just the lost sheep of Israel"

Matt 15:
21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once. 29 Departing from there, Jesus went along by the Sea of Galilee .


If the lesson here were "Jesus was determined to call suffering humans (non-Jews) "dogs" and not to minister to them" - then the story would not start with Him going so far out of his way just for her. And would not end with his high affirmation of her FAITH and granting her request - then immediately leaving for Galilee almost 40 miles away over a small mountain range. A lot of work for that one gentile.

When Jesus speaks to the topic "Love our neighbor as yourself" the explanation for "Who is my neighbor" is given as a Samaritan showing love and concern for a Jew even at the peril of his life. It is not "Jews love only Jews"

Carl Emerson said:

Concerning the Sabbath...
...
Here is a different approach for your consideration.

God the creator is outside of chronological time.

The first 6 days of creation were epochs. We know that time to God is different than human experience of time. (the references to a thousand years to a day are simply illustrating this)

So during the first six days of creation God participated in creation time.

Then having finished creating He rested in His timelessness again.

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Moses said it was 7 days in Gen 2:1-3, then in Ex 20:11 in the Sabbath commandment legal code we see that the 7 days at Sinai are set equal to the 7 days in Gen 2 in terms of time. "Six days you shall labor..for in six days the Lord made". Same author, same subject, a clear meaning to Moses' readers. In fact Exodus 16 "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" - then emphasized for 40 years that no food would be showing up on Sabbath. this literal fact was well ingrained without any ambiguity.

God says "the seventh day IS the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

By contrast some people will say "This Sabbath Rest is timeless and has no relation to any calendar event."

So choose which source you wish to follow

Question -- who are those in the Trinity " trying to tie believers down to a particular day"?

Testing/questioning/evaluating doctrinal claims "sola scriptura" goes all the way back to Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

Mark 7:6-13 Jesus shows how this is done "sola scriptura" when it came to the traditions and commandments of men - among the Jewish leadership

BobRyan said:

John 4 - Jesus is offering eternal life to Samaritans - not "just the lost sheep of Israel"

Matt 15:
21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once. 29 Departing from there, Jesus went along by the Sea of Galilee .


If the lesson here were "Jesus was determined to call suffering humans (non-Jews) "dogs" and not to minister to them" - then the story would not start with Him going so far out of his way just for her. And would not end with his high affirmation of her FAITH and granting her request - then immediately leaving for Galilee almost 40 miles away over a small mountain range. A lot of work for that one gentile.

When Jesus speaks to the topic "Love our neighbor as yourself" the explanation for "Who is my neighbor" is given as a Samaritan showing love and concern for a Jew even at the peril of his life. It is not "Jews love only Jews"

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Matthew 4:15 is the fulfillment of Isaiah 9. It pertains only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel living in the region of Galilee of the Gentiles.

Also germane is Romans 9:24-26.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles (nations, tribes).

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

This is the fulfillment of the same prophecy, of Osee (Hosea), that the remnant of the house of Israel would be reconciled to God. This was Jesus' commission from God the Father.

Petros2015 said:

Oh.

View attachment 301806

OH.

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Umm...

Yeah that's a hearse of a different color...

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ugh! bad machine translation is bad