20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Guojing said:

Interesting passage you have used there. In context, in 1 Cor, the believers in Corinthians were committing "sins" of various degree, they slept with temple prostitutes, getting drunk at the Lord's supper, suing one another etc

Not once did Paul ever say to them "God might punish you for doing that, so repent", instead he reminded them of their identity, who they are in Christ.

And at the ending part, when he came to 1 Cor 15, when he was teaching those same "sinners" about the mystery of the rapture, do you notice he said

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

When Paul stated we, he is referring to both himself, as well as every believer in Corinth, which includes those who "slept with temple prostitutes, getting drunk at the Lord's supper, suing one another etc".

As for that passage you used, that verse is describing the action of eating, not the eater himself. I know my church believes that eating the Lord's supper with the proper revelation can mean that you receive healing from that, so her interpretation is that, healing can come with the holy comm.

So when you are unaware of that, you can be weak and fall asleep because you don't receive healing.



But I no longer believe in that doctrine.

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Marilyn C said:

Hi Guojing,

I`m glad you now don`t believe that false teaching.

Marilyn.

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Now I posted that the Holy Spirit was/is guiding the Body of Christ into all truth and thus the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the ministries of the ascended Lord have brought about - healings, deliverances, miracles etc. These have been happening for many years, it is just that it is not in the media, and obviously not in your circle of influence.

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Marilyn C said:

Hi SJ,

I answered on the side of the Holy Spirit. OK, so now from our perspective.

I believe, as you do that the Church and the Body of Christ are the same. (Eph. 1: 22 & 23) (It seems you thought I saw them differently. That was Guojing.)

So your question - `What is required to be in the Body of Christ, (the Church)?`

The Body of Christ, the ekklesia, are the called out ones from Israel and the nations. They are those who believe that Jesus died for them, that He rose and ascended to the Father and is coming again., that His Holy Spirit was sent to make them like Christ, (His character). These believers walk with the Holy Spirit who guides them into all truth and helps them to die to self and live to Christ.

Marilyn.

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Guojing said:

Hmm, wait a minute, didn't you say this?



You believe in signs and wonders, including healing, are for today right?

My senior pastor believes that too, so I thought you would agree with him there. =)

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Guojing said:

Actually I was explaining to him the difference between in Christ and in the Body of Christ.

I was not explaining to him the difference between church and the Body of Christ.

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Marilyn C said:

Yes I do believe in healings, deliverances etc as I have experienced and also seen such things. However I do not believe that taking communion brings healing.

Marilyn.

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Guojing said:

I see. I believe God can heal too, and he can heal if he wants to today. But when I am referring to signs and wonders, I mean God no longer heals thru someone with a gift of healing.

There are none of us here with that gift of healing now.

Those healings that Christ did in the 4 gospels were meant as a sign to Israel (John 10:38, John 20:30-31). They are not meant for us to claim and believe that Christ will still heal us in the same way today

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Marilyn C said:

Hi Guojing,

Actually healings and other gifts are from the Holy Spirit and He will manifest them as He will in the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 7 - 11)

Marilyn.

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Guojing said:

So if your point is that God can heal if he wants to, we are in agreement.

But what do you think of churches who constantly go the 4 gospels to claim healing, and especially invoke Isa 53 for that?

When I read Paul's statements to Timothy about his stomach aliments, as well as Philippians 2

25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.

27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful.

29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation:

I never once read Paul invoking Isa 53 to claim healing in these passages, nor did he claim healing based on what Jesus did while he was in the flesh during the 4 gospels.

And this is from someone who once had the sign gift of healing, where his handkerchiefs could heal.

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Marilyn C said:

Glad you still believe that the Lord heals. Now the teaching from Isa. 53 that claims we are healed if only we had enough faith & claim it etc, is not correct.

Isa. 53 tells us HOW we are healed not WHEN.

If we are healed then it is by His stripes.

Marilyn.

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Guojing said:

When you are basing your doctrine on healing on Isa 53, you will run into many issues.

If you claim "If we are healed then it is by His stripes", isn't the cross already a fact of reality?

So if we are healed by his stripes, why is healing not guaranteed to all, given that the cross was a fact?

Also, why did Paul not mentioned Isa 53 even once, for us in the Body of Christ, for healing in Romans to Philemon?

Why didn't he tell Timothy to believe that for his healing, or Epaphroditus in Philippians 2 that?

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Marilyn C said:

I`m not basing my doctrine on Isa. 53, however being part of God`s word it does contribute to the whole of that topic. Each prophet gives some of God`s revelation and it is for us to read all that pertains to a topic for a full understanding.

Paul was speaking to the Philippians about Epaphroditus being sick nearly to death, but God had mercy on him. In Isa. 53 the context is about the Lord suffering and being beaten for our iniquity.

The context of each is different. God doesn`t have to keep repeating Himself in His word for the whole of the Bible is written by Him.

Healing is not guaranteed for healing is not at the top of God`s purpose for us. Being made like Christ is His purpose. (Rom. 8: 29). Often we have to go through things that come because we live in a fallen world, with damaged genes, and that can make us lean on the Lord more.

Marilyn.

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Guojing said:

My wife is female
Your wife is also female

Therefore, my wife is your wife too.

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Marilyn C said:

Hi SJ,

I answered on the side of the Holy Spirit. OK, so now from our perspective.

I believe, as you do that the Church and the Body of Christ are the same. (Eph. 1: 22 & 23) (It seems you thought I saw them differently. That was Guojing.)

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So your question - `What is required to be in the Body of Christ, (the Church)?`

The Body of Christ, the ekklesia, are the called out ones from Israel and the nations. They are those who believe that Jesus died for them, that He rose and ascended to the Father and is coming again., that His Holy Spirit was sent to make them like Christ, (His character). These believers walk with the Holy Spirit who guides them into all truth and helps them to die to self and live to Christ.

Marilyn.

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Guojing said:

I have provided you with scripture not just from James alone. This doctrine is not just based on James.

(Matthew 5:17-19, Matthew 28:20, Acts 21:20, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:28-29, 1 John 3:6)

John was pretty clear to Israel in the last 2 scriptural passages on what Israel needed to do to remain in Christ

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Sin is transgression of the Law. If you want to claim that all these people, including Jesus, did not mean what they say but actually meant something similar to what Paul tells us, that is your choice.

I have explained to you the difference between in Christ and in the Body of Christ. Whether or not you want to accept, that is another story.

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Guojing said:

1 John 2:28-29, 1 John 3:6)

John was pretty clear to Israel in the last 2 scriptural passages on what Israel needed to do to remain in Christ

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Moriah's Song said:

It is pretty clear to me in John 3 that he was writing to "the church" (which included both Jews and Gentiles) as "church" is mentioned 3 times and the word Israel is not mentioned at all in any of the 3 Books of John.

3 Jo 1:5,6 - Beloved, it is a loyal thing you do when you render any service to the brethren, especially to strangers,- who have testified to your love before the church.
3 Jo 1:9 - I have written something to the church; but Diotrephes,* who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority.
3 Jo 1:10 - So if I come, I will bring up what he is doing, prating against me with evil words. And not content with that, he refuses himself to welcome the brethren, [the Jews] and also stops those who want to welcome them and puts them out of the church.​

*Most commentators say he was a Gentile (Greek possibly because of the spelling) but would not rule out the possibility that he could have been Jewish.

To finish, in 1 John 1:9 it says...

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."​

In John 2:2 it says...

"He is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."​

The letters are usually dated around A.D 90 according to my introduction to the 3 books. By that time Jerusalem was gone, the Christians and Jews were a mixed congregation most likely by that time and so I do not see where Israel (the nation) is being told what to do to remain in Christ. The nation itself (if that is what you are referring to) never was "in Christ" - only the elect remnant composed of Christian and Jewish believers can be "in Christ." Those OT believers who looked forward to the Messiah (the remnant) could possibly be said to be "in Christ. (as in Job, David, Ezekiel, Mary, John the Baptist etc.)

​

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Spiritual Jew said:

Your hyper literal way of interpreting scripture is the reason you misinterpret so many verses. You're not using spiritual discernment like Paul says we should (1 Cor 2:9-14). For example, 1 John 3:6 is not saying that someone needs to be sinless in order to know Christ and abide in Him. That is apparently what you think, at least as it relates to Jews. That is an impossible standard to live up to. Only Christ Himself could do that. Do you know that?

What the verses you quoted mean is that a person who abides in Christ will not sin willfully in defiance of Christ. Anyone who sins willfully without feeling guilty about it clearly is not in a personal relationship with Christ. That's what verses like those mean. When someone is in a relationship with Christ and has faith in Him, their desire will be to obey Him. It doesn't mean we obey Him perfectly or that we can't be forgiven if we sin, but that is our goal (to obey Him perfectly).

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Spiritual Jew said:

You're right, that was Guojing who said that and not you. It's sometimes difficult to remember who said what since you both have pretty similar beliefs. Never mind the question about the supposed differences between the two then since you agree they are the same.

Yes, but do you not believe that OT saints are in the Body of Christ as well? There is no other name by which anyone from any time can be saved (Acts 4:12). They too "drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

1 Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

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Moriah's Song said:

Typical of dispensational circular reasoning - pure gibberish.

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