How to perfectly understand...."born again".

Sidon said:

Discipleship, is what we do, because we are born again.
Its our lifestyle of devotion, based on becoming a Son of God.

We are certainly obligated to behave, as a Son of God, but not so that we stay saved.

We behave as a Son of God, because we ARE SAVED, not to try to stay saved.
So, this means we understand that our behavior, both before we are saved, and after we are saved, is not a part of the CROSS that is the SAVING, is the Gift of Salvation.

Im serving God, since i was called in '86.
If i never did any of this, then that has no effect on God's Salvation that has ALREADY made me His SON, before He called me.. to serve.

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And yet I thought you opposed OSAS. Is there a difference?

Sidon said:

OSAS, is the devil's concept, where he retrains believers into deception, who use to believe in Christ, into the idea that God's Grace, as a GIFT, that you possess, , is not that,......but that God's Grace is a license to Sin.
See that flip? that Twist? that SUBVERSION of God's Grace?


So, what the devil did, according to JUDE.....is he brought people into the church who taught that Paul was teaching...>"sin more so that Grace will come"..
This is the 1st century version of .."cheap grace" "easy believism" and "license to sin", as you find as the updated '2021 Satanic bumper sticker.

JUDE said that these dark lights, these ministers of the Devil, pretending to be real teachers, flipped God's Grace, into= "this is really license to sin".

And for 2000 yrs, believers have been tricked into this twisting of the Grace of God, into, "that is license to sin".
So, if anyone tries to deceive you OUT of the right understanding of Grace, as "the GIFT of SALVATION.... by teaching that this is OSAS, (License to sin) then avoid that devil.

Click to expand...

I don't think all OSAS adherents believe in the 'license to sin' concept tho. Many believe something as you do, I think, that we'll at least sin less, or not at all, once saved-and that we're strictly declared righteous to begin with in any case. There's really quite a bit of confusion and disagreement on that whole idea, with the doctrine of Sola Fide leaving the door open to one degree or another, not able to offer a clear or definitive understanding by itself. Anything from 'license to sin' or antinomianism to never wanting or able to sin again may prevail.

Sidon said:

Discipleship, is what we do, because we are born again.
Its our lifestyle of devotion, based on becoming a Son of God.

We are certainly obligated to behave, as a Son of God, but not so that we stay saved.

We behave as a Son of God, because we ARE SAVED, not to try to stay saved.
So, this means we understand that our behavior, both before we are saved, and after we are saved, is not a part of the CROSS that is the SAVING, is the Gift of Salvation.

Im serving God, since i was called in '86.
If i never did any of this, then that has no effect on God's Salvation that has ALREADY made me His SON, before He called me.. to serve.

Click to expand...

You say that we try not to stay saved.

We are told:



We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

My guess is that even if you were told these verses by our Lord at the Judgment, you still would not get it.

Sidon said:

If you are trying to stay saved then you are either not born again, or you are, and you have lost Trust in Christ.

See, when you try to keep yourself saved, then Christ looks down from the Cross and says to you...."Oh really"

Think on that.

Click to expand...

I quoted Scripture. It is up to you to believe it.

Sidon said:

OSAS, is the devil's concept, where he retrains believers into deception, who use to believe in Christ, into the idea that God's Grace, as a GIFT, that you possess, , is not that,......but that God's Grace is a license to Sin.
See that flip? that Twist? that SUBVERSION of God's Grace?


So, what the devil did, according to JUDE.....is he brought people into the church who taught that Paul was teaching...>"sin more so that Grace will come"..
This is the 1st century version of .."cheap grace" "easy believism" and "license to sin", as you find as the updated '2021 Satanic bumper sticker.

JUDE said that these dark lights, these ministers of the Devil, pretending to be real teachers, flipped God's Grace, into= "this is really license to sin".

And for 2000 yrs, believers have been tricked into this twisting of the Grace of God, into, "that is license to sin".
So, if anyone tries to deceive you OUT of the right understanding of Grace, as "the GIFT of SALVATION.... by teaching that this is OSAS, (License to sin) then avoid that devil.

Click to expand...

I am sorry. What you preach sounds a lot like Easy Believism. You said salvation is only in believing in Jesus or the cross and or His blood for salvation and it is not in anything you do. Imagine if you told a child this and you never see them again. If they turned out to be the next George Sodini or Kenneth Nally, you would on part be to blame because they were just following what you said.

Sidon said:

OSAS, is the devil's concept, where he retrains believers into deception, who use to believe in Christ, into the idea that God's Grace, as a GIFT, that you possess, , is not that,......but that God's Grace is a license to Sin.
See that flip? that Twist? that SUBVERSION of God's Grace?


So, what the devil did, according to JUDE.....is he brought people into the church who taught that Paul was teaching...>"sin more so that Grace will come"..
This is the 1st century version of .."cheap grace" "easy believism" and "license to sin", as you find as the updated '2021 Satanic bumper sticker.

JUDE said that these dark lights, these ministers of the Devil, pretending to be real teachers, flipped God's Grace, into= "this is really license to sin".

And for 2000 yrs, believers have been tricked into this twisting of the Grace of God, into, "that is license to sin".
So, if anyone tries to deceive you OUT of the right understanding of Grace, as "the GIFT of SALVATION.... by teaching that this is OSAS, (License to sin) then avoid that devil.

Click to expand...

You basically said a person cannot reverse being born again. So how is that not OSAS?
Do you believe it possible to fall away from the faith?

Sidon said:

OSAS, is the devil's concept, where he retrains believers into deception, who use to believe in Christ, into the idea that God's Grace, as a GIFT, that you possess, , is not that,......but that God's Grace is a license to Sin.
See that flip? that Twist? that SUBVERSION of God's Grace?


So, what the devil did, according to JUDE.....is he brought people into the church who taught that Paul was teaching...>"sin more so that Grace will come"..
This is the 1st century version of .."cheap grace" "easy believism" and "license to sin", as you find as the updated '2021 Satanic bumper sticker.

JUDE said that these dark lights, these ministers of the Devil, pretending to be real teachers, flipped God's Grace, into= "this is really license to sin".

And for 2000 yrs, believers have been tricked into this twisting of the Grace of God, into, "that is license to sin".
So, if anyone tries to deceive you OUT of the right understanding of Grace, as "the GIFT of SALVATION.... by teaching that this is OSAS, (License to sin) then avoid that devil.

Click to expand...

So you never lied, looked at a woman in lust, hated, etc. after coming to the faith? Have you not committed some kind of sin that the New Testament condemns? If so, do you believe you were saved by believing in the finished work of the cross while you committed such sins? If so, how is that different than those who blatantly sin who trust in Christ for their salvation? How many sins does it take for a believer to commit before they are turning God's grace into a license for immorality?

Adam just committed one sin and it led to the fall of mankind.

Sidon said:

If you are trying to stay saved then you are either not born again, or you are, and you have lost Trust in Christ.

See, when you try to keep yourself saved, then Christ looks down from the Cross and says to you...."Oh really"

Think on that.

Click to expand...

Actually, after we are saved by God's grace, Christ does the good work through us (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5).

Sidon said:

All people are without God, initially, so they are without hope, literally, until they are born again.

The reason that Jesus said to "GO into ALL the world", is because its by this offering of reconciliation to God, as "the preaching of the Cross", that the world is given the opportunity to engage in the relationship with God you are describing.

A person has to hear about the Cross and the Love of God to be able to choose it.
"""FAITH comes by HEARING and hearing by the word of GOD".
This is why God has preachers, and Churches, and Christians.
All of this is the LIGHT, that is shining into the world as the Gospel, which is pleading with them to come to the CROSS of CHRIST and be born again.

Click to expand...

Is not all of the New Testament a part of the faith?

Sidon said:

OSAS, is the devil's concept, where he retrains believers into deception, who use to believe in Christ, into the idea that God's Grace, as a GIFT, that you possess, , is not that,......but that God's Grace is a license to Sin.
See that flip? that Twist? that SUBVERSION of God's Grace?


So, what the devil did, according to JUDE.....is he brought people into the church who taught that Paul was teaching...>"sin more so that Grace will come"..
This is the 1st century version of .."cheap grace" "easy believism" and "license to sin", as you find as the updated '2021 Satanic bumper sticker.

JUDE said that these dark lights, these ministers of the Devil, pretending to be real teachers, flipped God's Grace, into= "this is really license to sin".

And for 2000 yrs, believers have been tricked into this twisting of the Grace of God, into, "that is license to sin".
So, if anyone tries to deceive you OUT of the right understanding of Grace, as "the GIFT of SALVATION.... by teaching that this is OSAS, (License to sin) then avoid that devil.

Click to expand...

While grace is an attribute of the Lord Jesus Christ because Scripture says He is full of grace and truth (John 1:14), this attribute is not something that is separate from who He is as a person. God is spirit (John 4:24). But the spirit is not distinct from who is as a person anymore than grace is distinct from who is as a person. Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by God's grace through faith, it is the gift of God. This gift is Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that he GAVE His only begotten Son (John 3:16). Jesus said "I am the bread of life." (John 6:35). Jesus is speaking in spiritual terms. He is not saying he is actual physical bread. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the LIFE." (John 14:6). In other words, Jesus is saying He is spiritual life (i.e. eternal life). 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. So a person needs have to have the Son in order to have life and they cannot be saved without God's grace because true believers are saved by God's grace (like a gift) through faith. So Jesus is the source of salvation itself. Jesus is the source of grace itself. Grace is embodied in a person. God's grace is Jesus Christ.

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." (Acts of the Apostles 15:11).

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (Romans 3:24).

This grace is in Jesus for it is a part of who He is.

Paul was able to labour more than the brethren not because of his own working but because of the "grace of God" that was with him.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." (1 Corinthians 15:10).

This "grace of God" is Jesus Christ. Jesus was the One who had helped Paul to labor more abundantly than His brethren. For Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

It has been suggested by some that Jeremiah 29:13 does not apply to the New Covenant believer.

Is this true? No.

Hebrews 11:6 says,
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Paul says,

“That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,...” (Philippians 3:10).

Surely Paul knew the Lord, but he wanted to know more of Him. He diligently seeks after the Lord.

“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.” (James 4:8).

We need to draw near to God and that way He can draw near to us.

For truly God hides himself whereby we need to seek Him.

“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.” (Matthew 11:25).

Obviously God desires even those who hold to wordly wisdom to seek after Him to find Him. But while they are wise in their own eyes, the Lord is hidden from them.

For it is written...

“Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.” (Isaiah 45:15).