BNR32FAN

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The "stupidest" thing you'll find on this forum, is your posts that talk about "self saving" trying to pretend this is the Grace of God and the "gift of Salvation".
And you'll do it again, as you have nothing else to offer.

Funny, but so far your the only one finding my posts stupid. I’m not the one who has everyone in this thread refuting my theology. That’s all you bro.
 
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Sidon

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Funny, but so far your the only one finding my posts stupid. I’m not the one who has everyone in this thread refuting my theology. That’s all you bro.

you probably do have the mentality that believes that you , setse777, and ligurian, are "everyone".

You make me smile with your mentality and comments.
Really.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You dont keep yourself saved by believing.
God saves you initially because you gave him your faith.
He accepts this, to save you from that day on.

When you go to the Cross, and trust in Christ, ...God takes that faith as "faith is accepted as Righteousness".
Notice you didnt have any Righteousness?
So, God accepts your faith to Give you His....and the person then becomes "the Righteousness of God".
This is God giving a BELIEVER, "the gift of Righteousness".
This is literally Christ the Righteous, coming to join His Spirit, with the believers, which causes the "new Creation". = born again.

As I already pointed out Jesus said some will believe for a while then later fall away. So no, God does not keep someone against their will. There is no believe one time and you can’t stop believing. People stop believing all the time just as Jesus said they would.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And those are not born again.
See, you can't "fall away" from being BORN AGAIN.

Have you forgotten what you just posted not 5 minutes ago?

You dont keep yourself saved by believing.
God saves you initially because you gave him your faith.
He accepts this, to save you from that day on.

You just finished saying that God saves you because you gave Him your faith. Faith and believing is the same exact thing. Faith is the noun form and believing in the verb. Any seminary student would know this.
Now when I prove you wrong you flip your theology again, as always.
 
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setst777

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No.

Im born again by the Spirit of God.

Here are your words:

Sidon said:
By faith.

"faith is counted as Righteousness".

God sees faith in Christ, in the sinner's heart, when they hear the Gospel, and "faith comes by hearing", and God accepts this faith to give them the BLood Atonement and the new Birth = born again.


We are born again by faith in Lord Jesus.

Let me explain.

Faith is not the Savior.
God is the Savior.
Faith does not save you.
God saves you through your faith.

We all know faith is not the savior. None of us has stated otherwise.

God chooses that by faith we are saved.

Luke 7:50 (WEB) 50 He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

John 3:16 (WEB)
14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
 
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Ligurian

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From the Kingdom Gospel Perspective

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, [then] are ye My Disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered Him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.



From the Kingdom Gospel Perspective

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but [that] rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed [his] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye [to it].

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.



From the Kingdom Gospel Perspective

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.



From the Kingdom Gospel Perspective

Esaias 55:3 Give heed with your ears, and follow My ways: hearken to Me, and your soul shall live in prosperity; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, the sure mercies of David. 4 Behold I have made him a testimony among the Gentiles, a prince and commander to the Gentiles. 5 Nations which know thee not, shall call upon thee, and peoples which are not acquainted with thee, shall flee to thee for refuge, for the sake of the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel; for He has glorified thee. 6 Seek ye the Lord, and when ye find Him, call upon Him; and when He shall draw nigh to you, 7 let the ungodly leave his ways, and the transgressor his counsels: and let him return to the Lord, and he shall find mercy; for He shall abundantly pardon your sins. 8 For My counsels are not as your counsels, nor are My ways as your ways, saith the Lord. 9 But as the heaven is distant from the earth, so is My way distant from your ways, and your thoughts from My mind. 10 For as rain shall come down, or snow, from heaven, and shall not return until it have saturated the earth, and it bring forth, and bud, and give seed to the sower, and bread for food: 11 so shall My word be, whatever shall proceed out of My mouth, it shall by no means turn back, until all the things which I willed shall have been accomplished; and I will make thy ways prosperous, and will effect My commands. 12 For ye shall go forth with joy, and shall be taught with gladness: for the mountains and the hills shall exult to welcome you with joy, and all the trees of the field shall applaud with their branches. 13 And instead of the bramble shall come up the cypress, and instead of the nettle shall come up the myrtle: and the Lord shall be for a name, and for an everlasting sign, and shall not fail.LXX

Can you do something other then post from hyper religious heretical commentaries?
No?

Please show me where to find these commentaries of which you speak. Perhaps give me a title of their material, so I can see what it is that you are pretending I've copied without giving credit to the author? When you find the link, please post it... I'll wait here.

While we're waiting for the proof of Sidon's false witness, or not...
All I've actually done is come up with a catch phrase and then post
direct quotes from Jesus as well as the source from which He quotes.

So... let me ask you, Sidon:

Are my direct quotes from Jesus "hyper religious heretical" to you?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Exactly.
God is the Savior, not faith.

You just said when a person believes, God saves him, then when I pointed out that some only believe for a while then they fall away you say that God is the Savior not the faith. Your not making any sense at all. Obviously God doesn’t save a person when they believe if they are able to fall away. That’s just common sense. I just pointed this error out to you in my last post and you completely dismissed it as if it never happened. Here let’s take another look at what happened.


Your earning it just as much by believing to keep yourself saved.


You dont keep yourself saved by believing.
God saves you initially because you gave him your faith.
He accepts this, to save you from that day on.

When you go to the Cross, and trust in Christ, ...God takes that faith as "faith is accepted as Righteousness".
Notice you didnt have any Righteousness?
So, God accepts your faith to Give you His....and the person then becomes "the Righteousness of God".
This is God giving a BELIEVER, "the gift of Righteousness".
This is literally Christ the Righteous, coming to join His Spirit, with the believers, which causes the "new Creation". = born again.


As I already pointed out Jesus said some will believe for a while then later fall away. So no, God does not keep someone against their will. There is no believe one time and you can’t stop believing. People stop believing all the time just as Jesus said they would.


And those are not born again.
See, you can't "fall away" from being BORN AGAIN.


You just finished saying that God saves you because you gave Him your faith. Faith and believing is the same exact thing. Faith is the noun form and believing in the verb. Any seminary student would know this.
Now when I prove you wrong you flip your theology again, as always.


Exactly.
God is the Savior, not faith.

You just completely tried to sweep your error under the rug but I’m not letting it go that easy. I’m going to keep on exposing your flip flopping theology every chance I get because a sound theology is built on a solid foundation. It doesn’t need to waiver or flip flop when compared to other scriptures.

So now let’s get back to our original topic. Does God save every person when they believe or not? And how is enduring “my savior” any more than believing is your savior?
 
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setst777

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You dont keep yourself saved by believing.
God saves you initially because you gave him your faith.
He accepts this, to save you from that day on.

We don't give our faith to God, we put our faith in God. Faith must continue. Faith is not a one-time action that you give to God, and the God guarantees your salvation to the end. No such Scripture.

The many warnings of Scripture teach us we must CONTINUE in the Faith to be eternally saved.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB)
16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (WEB) 4 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron

Romans 11:20-22 (WEB)
20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith.
Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 3:13-15 (WEB)
13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Hebrews 12:25 (WEB) See that you (the Christians for whom the letter was written) do not refuse him who speaks. For if they (those OT Israelites) did not escape when they refused him who warned on the earth, how much more will we (the Christians for whom the letter was written) not escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven

Hebrews 10:35-38 (WEB)
35 Therefore do not throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB)
Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into his Rest.
 
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setst777

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And those are not born again.
See, you can't "fall away" from being BORN AGAIN.

The only way to hold onto your doctrine is to ignore the Holy Scriptures. Which is exactly what you have been doing on this board

You just flat out ignore all the warnings, admonitions, and commands of Scripture to remain faithful to be eternally saved.
  • Not one Scripture states that you can never lose being born again. You made that up.
  • We are born again by faith in Lord Jesus (John 3:16).
  • If a person falls away from the faith by unrepentant sin, or false doctrine, that person is no longer born again, because God disowns such as these (ex: Hebrews 10:26-30).
 
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Sidon

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Here are your words:

Sidon said:
By faith.

"faith is counted as Righteousness".

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Yes.
 
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Sidon

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you are pretending I've copied without giving credit to the author?
Are my direct quotes from Jesus "hyper religious heretical" to you?


I never said you didn't "give credit".

Also, quoting verses, isn't the same as proving truth, tho, you would not be able to see it that way, at this time.
 
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Sidon

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You just said when a person believes, God saves him, then when I pointed out that some only believe for a while then they fall away you say that God is the Savior not the faith.

You just completely tried to sweep your error under the rug but I’m not letting it go that easy. I’m going to keep on exposing your flip flopping theology

The only thing you are proving, is that you dont actually understand what i post.

For example, if i say that Faith is not the Savior, you'll then post that i said faith is the savior.

If i post that "those that fall away, are not born again", you'll then post that i said God is their savior and not faith".

So, that is a very confused reading of what im simply posting to you.


Listen, not everyone is born again, who claims to be so.
And, Its God who died on the Cross, and faith is what He accepts to give you what Jesus said, is "finished".
This is the "gift of Salvation".
 
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Ligurian

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BNR32FAN quotes a parable... I don't read the context, so I don't know why.



A grace-gospel-believer tries his best to interpret the parable.



I toss my pearls of wisdom in... ;)



And grace-gospel-believer guy sticks to his guns, adds the oddity of "that's not a parable," and doesn't care who's qualified to understand parables.

Matthew 13:10 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
19 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

Not so far.
But then again, you've only had about 5 weeks of trying it on my Threads.
That's why you've been trying to rend me.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 13:45-46 Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. Matthew 13:10-11

Revelation 21:21 And the twelve gates twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.KJV
 
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Sidon

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We don't give our faith to God, we put our faith in God.

Actually God accepts our faith, as "faith is counted as righteousness', which is.. ."Justification by faith".

And what continues, once we give God the faith that He accepts to save us, is our Salvation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The only thing you are proving, is that you dont actually understand what i post.

For example, if i say that Faith is not the Savior, you'll then post that i said faith is the savior.

Nope that never happened.
 
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Sidon

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The only way to hold onto your doctrine is to ignore the Holy Scriptures.

Salvation is God on the Cross, offering His blood as the reconciliation that allows "all who call on the name of Jesus", to be born again.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If i post that "those that fall away, are not born again", you'll then post that i said God is their savior and not faith".

So, that is a very confused reading of what im simply posting to you.

I don’t know if you noticed or not but those were all quotes. I quoted exactly what you posted. So this is not me saying you said this, this is me quoting exactly what you posted.
 
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setst777

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Actually God accepts our faith, as "faith is counted as righteousness', which is.. ."Justification by faith".

And what continues, once we give God the faith that He accepts to save us, is our Salvation.

We do not give our faith to God, we place or put our faith in God. God accepts the faith we place in Him.

Faith is not a one time action. Faith must continue, according to all the Scriptures, to remain in God's saving grace.

God accepts our faith. If a believer is no longer living by faith, then God will disown that unfaithful servant.

And don't say they were never in the faith to begin with, as you continually do, because the Epistles are written to the Churches to warn, admonish, and command the believers to remain faithful to the end to inherit eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB)
16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (WEB) 4 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron

Romans 11:20-22 (WEB)
20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith.
Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 3:13-15 (WEB)
13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Hebrews 12:25 (WEB) See that you (the Christians for whom the letter was written) do not refuse him who speaks. For if they (those OT Israelites) did not escape when they refused him who warned on the earth, how much more will we (the Christians for whom the letter was written) not escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven

Hebrews 10:35-38 (WEB)
35 Therefore do not throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB)
Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into his Rest.
 
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