How can we be sure??

Jaxxi said:

I am not the one who gave satan that power. Satan is the most powerful created being in existence. To undermine his capabilities is not very smart as you need to know your enemy without giving him place. He has the power to deceive the world and look what he had the power to do to Job. You need to know what he is capable of so you can recognize his works more clearly. Otherwise he can show up and fool us fairly easily. He is called " The prince of this world" for a reason. I did not give him that label.

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And He has absolutely no power or authority beyond that which God gave/gives him also, etc...

And I have regular experiences and encounters with Satan on a regular basis, so I most definitely, above and beyond anyone else, fully know all about all of his "powers and/or abilities", and a lot of them are "smoke and mirrors", etc, tricks that their kind can do and perform/make, etc, and I know that better than anybody else, etc, and, no offense, but most certainly better than you do, etc...

He tries them on me all of the time, but because he has done it/them and tried them so often, I have also begun to wise up to and figure out most of his tricks and/or schemes, etc, and know them better than anyone, etc...

After a while, you begin to see how they are the same old ones being done and/or tried over and over again, and you now know them, etc...

And I'm also telling you that, when we do not know them, we can give him more power than he actually has, etc, but not when you know them, etc, for you see them for what they actually are then (smoke and mirrors mostly, etc) (cannot actually force anyone to ever do anything, etc) (trick them sometimes into doing things, yes, when you/me/we don't fully know all of his schemes/tricks/deceptions/ways, but he cannot ever do so when you do fully know them, etc)....

God Bless!

@Jaxxi

Satan has to "trick" people before he can have any kind of power over them, but if God has showed you all of his tricks, then he has no real power over you, or over anyone who is "not ignorant of his ways", etc...

And his main ways are illusion/delusion and confusion and deception, and those are his main ones anyway, by using various channels/people/technology/ways, etc...

And he has tried them all on me so very much, that, as of now anyway, and by the Grace and power of God, I am starting to wise up to almost all of his ways, etc...

But they can come by or through the supposed people of God sometimes, or even the pulpit sometimes, etc, which is why it is important to not be ignorant of his ways, etc, and the many ways by which he can use or execute those ways, etc...

But he always has to trick or deceive you first, otherwise it does not work, etc...

God Bless!

Jaxxi said:

Satan has power to influence Christians! We see him enter Peter to which Christ says " get behind me satan!" And he enters Judas Iscariot causing him to betray Jesus, then kill himself. Satan is as a lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions are not picky- they will devour anyone. I am not giving him more credit than he has. He is not omnipresent or all- knowing but we must make no mistake that the most Godly people are at the top of his list since he is devoted to making sure no mere human is found worthy of inheriting what he feels is rightfully his. In the end he wants all to be found unworthy of salvation, dirty and sinful so that God is disgusted at the mere sight of us. In America what do we value most? Freedom from who you must ask because we have taken everything God despises and made it our lifestyle- greed, lying, idolatry, gluttony, envy, pride, lust, inappropriate contentography, indecency, vanity, fashion, gossip, divorce, profanity, violence and murder, sports and games- ANYTHING that can be considered something we would rather be doing than spending time with Him, and we could be exchanging our " freedom" in this life to be enslaved in chains after selling the very soul of America without even realizing it.

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Two more points:

We are under Satan's power until we are brought to Christ:

Acts 26
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 John 4
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Albion said:

Christ, who is God, ordained and commanded sacramental Baptism.

The dove that appeared on the occasion of Christ's baptism in the River Jordan is representative of the third person of the Trinity. It is not to be confused with Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Christ would not have a need of being baptized with the Holy Spirit anyway.


Thinking that sacramental Baptism is a guarantee of salvation is a mistake commonly made by people who are affiliated with churches that see Baptism as merely a gesture on the part of the recipient. I can't think of any church that does teach that if you're baptized, you're "home free."

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Christ refers to His Heavenly Father often. When Christ came to me, I learned the fear of The Lord.
Rev.2 Verses 27 to 28

1. 
   [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
   [28] And I will give him the morning star.

1. 
   Isa.11
   1. [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
   2. Eph.3 Verses 8 to 21
      1. 
         
         [8] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
         [9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
         Rom.8
      2. 1. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
   I generally don’t continue in dogmatic discussions because until Christ comes as a thief in the night to the individual they can’t understand.

lsume said:

Christ refers to His Heavenly Father often. When Christ came to me, I learned the fear of The Lord.
Rev.2 Verses 27 to 28

1. 
   [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
   [28] And I will give him the morning star.

1. 
   Isa.11
   1. [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
   2. Eph.3 Verses 8 to 21
      1. 
         
         [8] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
         [9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
   I generally don’t continue in dogmatic discussions because until Christ comes as a thief in the night to the individual they can’t understand.

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Christ and Paul are very clear about not declaring a false coming of the Lord.

Matt 24:
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning

11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

No "individual second coming":
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

=================== Paul
So Paul also predicts that there will be false reports that Christ has come -

2 Thess 2:
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

BobRyan said:

Christ and Paul are very clear about not declaring a false coming of the Lord.

Matt 24:
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning

11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

No "individual second coming":
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

=================== Paul
So Paul also predicts that there will be false reports that Christ has come -

2 Thess 2:
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Is everyone who disagrees with you considered to be antichrist? Your way out of line here.

lsume said:

Is everyone who disagrees with you considered to be antichrist? Your way out of line here.

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Did I call anyone "antichrist"??

This thread is about the assurance of salvation. Paul has some things to say about the future in 2 Thess 2 as does Christ in Matt 24 - I can't be blamed for what they write - but I can quote them if someone wants to know if the coming of Christ is past or future (As your post brings up that topic) so I answer according to Christ and Paul regarding the future coming of Christ.

Your comment - way out of line here

BobRyan said:

Did I call anyone "antichrist"??

This thread is about the assurance of salvation. Paul has some things to say about the future in 2 Thess 2 as does Christ in Matt 24 - I can't be blamed for what they write - but I can quote them if someone wants to know if the coming of Christ is past or future (As your post brings up that topic) so I answer according to Christ and Paul regarding the future coming of Christ.

Your comment - way out of line here

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Num.16

1. [29] If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.

Job.10

1. [12] Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.

Isa.10

1. [3] And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?

lsume said:

Num.16

1. [29] If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.

Job.10

1. [12] Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.

Isa.10

1. [3] And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?

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I assume this is your way of admitting I have not used the term antichrist against anyone at all on this thread.

Ok so back to the thread topic on the assurance of salvation - I notice that Rom 8:12-16 has a pretty good case for it.

BobRyan said:

I assume this is your way of admitting I have not used the term antichrist against anyone at all on this thread.

Ok so back to the thread topic on the assurance of salvation - I notice that Rom 8:12-16 has a pretty good case for it.

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What I believe is that most have yet to be visited. It’s hard for me to believe that anyone would reject the truth when they are visited. The response also included Scripture. Please read the entire chapter in Numbers 16. I apologize for my hurried response. The mission is for everyone to seek Christ.

lsume said:

What I believe is that most have yet to be visited.

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Every person who has been born again is visited by the Spirit of Christ - the Holy Spirit - according to Christ in John 3:16. In the case of ALL who are saved we have the reality of "Christ in you the hope of glory" Col 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory


In the case of ALL who are saved we have the reality of Gal 2:20 "20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. "

By contrast - the texts I quoted in post 65 show a corporate world-wide reality where "all the tribes of the Earth SEE Him" -- every eye sees Him at His coming... no individual second coming. As we saw here - 57 minutes ago #65

BobRyan said:

Every person who has been born again is visited by the Spirit of Christ - the Holy Spirit - according to Christ in John 3:16. In the case of ALL who are saved we have the reality of "Christ in you the hope of glory" Col 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory


In the case of ALL who are saved we have the reality of Gal 2:20 "20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. "

By contrast - the texts I quoted in post 65 show a corporate world-wide reality where "all the tribes of the Earth SEE Him" -- every eye sees Him at His coming... no individual second coming. As we saw here - 57 minutes ago #65

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Amen! Something that I believe very much goes with John 3:16 is John 3:17
John.3 Verses 16 to 17

1. 
   
   [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
   [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jaxxi said:

Well, at the baptism everything seemed fine and then during the sermon the preacher went on to talk about obeying the government. He talked and emphasized compliance and submission and then at the end said if you are not comfortable with it ask God if you should submit or not. If he had spoken more about Jesus and God I would have been more comfortable but halfway through the sermon I was ready to leave.

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That doesn't have anything to do with the baptism, though. And as for the sermon, I don't think you should be too hard on the pastor because of that choice of subject.

Some sermons are planned long in advance, sometimes to compliment a Bible reading from some other part of the worship service, or to continue a topic that was started a week ago, or because of something that recently appeared in the news, or for a dozen other reasons. They usually are not, in fact, planned to coordinate with the baptismal ceremony if there should be one one that particular day.

Even if you were to pay close attention to the sermons given over a longer period of time by this pastor and conclude that his mind was not on what is most important, your baptism wouldn't be invalidated anyway.

Jaxxi said:

Satan has power to influence Christians! We see him enter Peter to which Christ says " get behind me satan!" And he enters Judas Iscariot causing him to betray Jesus, then kill himself. Satan is as a lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions are not picky- they will devour anyone. I am not giving him more credit than he has.

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True and Paul predicts error coming into the Christian Church.

Acts 20:
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

Jaxxi said:

So what does that mean to you? Like how do you interpret that?

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It means that errors came in early and the first century church had to be constantly on the alert. That problem would only increase over time as the first century apostles would no longer be around

Jaxxi said:

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't? ?

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Jesus never water baptized anyone.

So, concern yourself with being born again, if you want to go to heaven.
Being born again is a "spiritual baptism" that happens on the inside of you.
Water Baptism can only get your body wet, and nothing more.

Trying to be saved, by water baptism, is exactly as futile as trying to take communion to be born again.
In both cases, the person is doing a work, and God is doing nothing.

Sparta said:

Jesus never water baptized anyone.

So, concern yourself with being born again, if you want to go to heaven.
Being born again is a "spiritual baptism" that happens on the inside of you.
Water Baptism can only get your body wet, and nothing more.

Trying to be saved, by water baptism, is exactly as futile as trying to take communion to be born again.
In both cases, the person is doing a work, and God is doing nothing.

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Here is what Jesus says on this matter:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus was sent on this earth as an example for us. How was Jesus baptized?

John baptized Jesus by immersion in the same river where Naaman was cleansed from leprosy. Note that they were "in" Jordan (not on the riverbank) and that Jesus came "up out" of the water. This is why John was baptizing in "Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there" John 3:23. Christians are to follow the example of Jesus (1 Peter 2:21), who was baptized by immersion "to fulfil all righteousness." Matthew 3:15.

What does the word "baptize" mean?

The Greek word "baptizo" means "submerge," "plunge under," or "immerse." A person has not been baptized unless he has been completely submerged, or buried, in water. This word "baptizo" is always used in the Bible in reference to the sacred ordinance of baptism. The Greek words for "sprinkling" or "pouring" are never used.

God does not make our choices for us and does not do all the work so we don't have to do any. He would have made us robots if we did not have free will and have the ability to make decisions which are shown through our actions.

We are told to be doers of the Word, not just hearers. James 1:22


God bless!

Sparta said:

Jesus never water baptized anyone.

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No, but he commended his closest associates to do it--and to do it throughout whole world! It's pretty hard to minimize Christ's interest in baptism, given that information.

Water Baptism can only get your body wet, and nothing more.

Trying to be saved, by water baptism, is exactly as futile as trying to take communion to be born again.

...the person is doing a work, and God is doing nothing.

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There are more than a couple of big-time errors in those three comments!