Purpose of the sabbath

Religiot

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The spiritual (?) yoke you are suggesting sounds confusing and ominous. I prefer the one Jesus offers.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Matthew 11:28-30

I find that obedience to God's law is actually quite simple and relatively easy, as Jesus said. No need for the spiritual gymnastics that I think you are suggesting.
You continue to twist what the Lord says, and casually.

--Did you not know that He was talking to Jews?

They lived under the administration of death and condemnation--if they sinned they had to pay for it, no ifs, ands, nor buts about it; and many sins required the death of the offender..... --Did you so soon forget, that Christ literally died for that reason? and it is by His death that He payed for our sins, once for all; and by His resurrection we are saved! --Did you forget these things?

--Did you forget that God drowned everyone, save Noah and His family?

--Did you forget that God killed everyone He brought out of Egypt, save their children and Kaleb and Joshua?

--Don't you understand, that the grace of God is so that we can keep His commands? --which are not burdensome, but to the wicked.

"Ominous", amazing: God's law is only ominous to those who want to do their own thing, their own way, above God's way: God is not the author of confusion but to those who love not the truth, viz:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." --2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

--His commands are easy to be understood, and give peace to the soul--not the peace the worldly know, but the peace that comes from knowing God: this is only possible for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Goodbye.
 
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Religiot

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Mmmm...

I was just asking for a yes or a no...
The Pharisees also came to my Lord, wanting a yes or a no, what they got instead was the truth of the matter.

I'm not here to give the answers you want to hear: I'm simply here for Someone else, to tell others what He says: those who obey God will hear that what I'm saying is not my own, but His.

Time to wake up, folks, before it's too late!
 
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Carl Emerson

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Sorry, your point is not clear to me.

God is enjoying rest in the seventh day of creation.

He invites us through obedience to join with Him in permanent rest.

This Sabbath rest we enter into and enjoy every day.
 
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Carl Emerson

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The Pharisees also came to my Lord, wanting a yes or a no, what they got instead was the truth of the matter.

I'm not here to give the answers you want to hear: I'm simply here for Someone else, to tell others what He says: those who obey God will hear that what I'm saying is not my own, but His.

Time to wake up, folks, before it's too late!

So you have a hot line to God that we don't have ???

Frankly that sounds rather arrogant.
 
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Danthemailman

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see post 136
Not buying it. Sabbath keeping (with all it's rules and regulations) was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on The Church/Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17) Period.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Not buying it. Sabbath keeping (with all it's rules and regulations) was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on The Church/Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17) Period.

You asked if anyone else had something to add and Soyeong did, he said the same thing I did...

@Soyeong wrote:
In Galatians 4:8, Paul addressed these verses to those who formerly did not know God, also known as former pagans. As such, they were not formerly keeping God's holy days and thus Paul could not have been criticizing them for returning to them, so whatever he was referring to in verse 10 is within the context of paganism, not God's holy days. You should be more careful not to take what was only said against obeying man and apply it to being against obeying what God has commanded, especially because Paul did not have the authority to countermand God.
 
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Danthemailman

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You asked if anyone else had something to add and Soyeong did, he said the same thing I did...

@Soyeong wrote:
In Galatians 4:8, Paul addressed these verses to those who formerly did not know God, also known as former pagans. As such, they were not formerly keeping God's holy days and thus Paul could not have been criticizing them for returning to them, so whatever he was referring to in verse 10 is within the context of paganism, not God's holy days. You should be more careful not to take what was only said against obeying man and apply it to being against obeying what God has commanded, especially because Paul did not have the authority to countermand God.
Even IF that were true in Galatians 4:8, it doesn’t change the fact that the sabbath was a shadow of the things to come, but lthe substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

People who believe otherwise typically mix the old and new covenants together and in extreme cases end up perverting the gospel by teaching “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.” (Galatians 1:6-9)

One such group even teaches the ludicrous doctrine that those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday will receive the mark of the beast. This is the kind of legalism that I strongly oppose!

Romans 14:5 - One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who eats, does so with regard to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat, it is for the Lord that he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.

I am not an Israelite who is under the law of Moses under the old covenant so spare me the rhetoric about the sabbath day.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Even IF that were true in Galatians 4:8, it doesn’t change the fact that the sabbath was a shadow of the things to come, but lthe substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

People who believe otherwise typically mix the old and new covenants together and in extreme cases end up perverting the gospel by teaching “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.” (Galatians 1:6-9)

One such group even teaches the ludicrous doctrine that those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday will receive the mark of the beast. This is the kind of legalism that I strongly oppose!

Romans 14:5 - One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who eats, does so with regard to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat, it is for the Lord that he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.

I am not an Israelite who is under the law of Moses under the old covenant so spare me the rhetoric about the sabbath day.

Dan we NEVER discussed the Sabbath, ONLY the passage in question. That was the only thing I commented on that you wrote. I am not sure what your Sabbath diatribe is for, but it has nothing to do with OUR conversation. IMO Romans 14:5 is regarding fasting. Sunday in the early church, even to this day, was to commemorate the Resurrection. Sunday has never been The Sabbath day.
Shalom
 
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Danthemailman

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Dan we NEVER discussed the Sabbath, ONLY the passage in question. That was the only thing I commented on that you wrote. I am not sure what your Sabbath diatribe is for, but it has nothing to do with OUR conversation. IMO Romans 14:5 is regarding fasting. Sunday in the early church, even to this day, was to commemorate the Resurrection. Sunday has never been The Sabbath day.
Shalom
As long as we agree that sabbath keeping is not mandatory for salvation we’re good. I don’t believe that Sunday is the sabbath day. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Soyeong

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Even IF that were true in Galatians 4:8, it doesn’t change the fact that the sabbath was a shadow of the things to come, but lthe substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

The OT contains many important foreshadows that teach us about God's nature and His plan of redemption. The light of Christ brings full substance to these foreshadows so that we can fully see what God was teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to observe in remembrance of him. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother keeping Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep it. The foreshadows testify about Christ and as his followers should live in a way that testifies about him by observing them.

People who believe otherwise typically mix the old and new covenants together and in extreme cases end up perverting the gospel by teaching “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.” (Galatians 1:6-9)

While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same laws for how to testify about His nature. For example, the way to testify about God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. It's not mixing covenants when they are all made with the same God with the same eternal nature.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23), and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to the nations (Matthew 24:12-14). The same goes for how Peter's audience knew what sin is when he told them to repent for the forgiveness of sin in Acts 2:38. In Romans 15:4, Paul said OT writings are for our instruction and in 15:18-19, his Gospel message involved bringing the Gentiles to obedience in word and in deed, so his Gospel was on the same page in regard to teaching repentance from our sins.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and to choose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the way of salvation by grace through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do that is itself the content of His gift of salvation. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what it means to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law. God's law commands to keep the Sabbath holy, so being saved from living in transgression of the Sabbath is part of the content of our salvation from sin, though we do not earn our salvation by keeping the Sabbath holy.

Romans 14:5 - One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who eats, does so with regard to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat, it is for the Lord that he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.

The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as promoting rebellion against what God has commanded. Where God has given no command, then we are free to follow our own opinions, but where God has given as command, then human opinion must yield. In Romans 14:4-5, it speaks about eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so it is speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century, and those who were choose to fast as a matter of opinion were passing judgement on those who were not, and were in trunk being resented, so it was exactly this sort of judging each other over opinions that Paul was seeking to quell in this chapter. On the other hand, God has commanded to keep the 7th day holy, so whether we choose to do that is not a disputable matter of opinion, but a matter of obedience to God. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit theft, adultery, murder, idolatry, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that rebellion against what God has commanded is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion.

I am not an Israelite who is under the law of Moses under the old covenant so spare me the rhetoric about the sabbath day.

In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so following those instructions is testifying about God's holiness, while refusing to follow them is bearing false witness against God's holiness. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are now included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the laws that God gave for how to fulfill those roles. It is contradictory for someone to what to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation, and it is contradictory for someone who thinks that they aren't under the Law of Moses to think that they need salvation from sin, which is the transgression of it.
 
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Soyeong

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God is enjoying rest in the seventh day of creation.

He invites us through obedience to join with Him in permanent rest.

This Sabbath rest we enter into and enjoy every day.

In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, the Mosaic Law is described as the way where we will find rest for our souls, so the Mosaic Law is God's invitation to join with Him in permanent rest, and part of that invitation is keeping the 7th day holy. In Hebrews 4:11, we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into that rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is exactly the opposite of what was being said.
 
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Religiot

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So you have a hot line to God that we don't have ???

Frankly that sounds rather arrogant.
Ironic that my honest response about my deference to God's word, to you, sounds arrogant; this immediately after your absurd sarcasm: truly, I cannot help you.

Goodbye.
 
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klutedavid

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Dan we NEVER discussed the Sabbath, ONLY the passage in question. That was the only thing I commented on that you wrote. I am not sure what your Sabbath diatribe is for, but it has nothing to do with OUR conversation. IMO Romans 14:5 is regarding fasting. Sunday in the early church, even to this day, was to commemorate the Resurrection. Sunday has never been The Sabbath day.
Shalom
Well you got that right.
 
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klutedavid

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The OT contains many important foreshadows that teach us about God's nature and His plan of redemption. The light of Christ brings full substance to these foreshadows so that we can fully see what God was teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to observe in remembrance of him. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother keeping Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep it. The foreshadows testify about Christ and as his followers should live in a way that testifies about him by observing them.



While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same laws for how to testify about His nature. For example, the way to testify about God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. It's not mixing covenants when they are all made with the same God with the same eternal nature.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23), and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to the nations (Matthew 24:12-14). The same goes for how Peter's audience knew what sin is when he told them to repent for the forgiveness of sin in Acts 2:38. In Romans 15:4, Paul said OT writings are for our instruction and in 15:18-19, his Gospel message involved bringing the Gentiles to obedience in word and in deed, so his Gospel was on the same page in regard to teaching repentance from our sins.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and to choose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the way of salvation by grace through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do that is itself the content of His gift of salvation. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what it means to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law. God's law commands to keep the Sabbath holy, so being saved from living in transgression of the Sabbath is part of the content of our salvation from sin, though we do not earn our salvation by keeping the Sabbath holy.



The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as promoting rebellion against what God has commanded. Where God has given no command, then we are free to follow our own opinions, but where God has given as command, then human opinion must yield. In Romans 14:4-5, it speaks about eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so it is speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century, and those who were choose to fast as a matter of opinion were passing judgement on those who were not, and were in trunk being resented, so it was exactly this sort of judging each other over opinions that Paul was seeking to quell in this chapter. On the other hand, God has commanded to keep the 7th day holy, so whether we choose to do that is not a disputable matter of opinion, but a matter of obedience to God. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit theft, adultery, murder, idolatry, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that rebellion against what God has commanded is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion.



In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so following those instructions is testifying about God's holiness, while refusing to follow them is bearing false witness against God's holiness. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are now included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the laws that God gave for how to fulfill those roles. It is contradictory for someone to what to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation, and it is contradictory for someone who thinks that they aren't under the Law of Moses to think that they need salvation from sin, which is the transgression of it.
Your making the same mistake that Peter was making.

Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Gentiles do not follow the law of Moses, Gentiles were never commanded to follow the law of Moses.

Your trying to get Gentiles to obey the law and that is unforgivable.

Gentiles are members of the new covenant and not members of that old covenant (Mt Sinai).

Gentiles don't celebrate Passover.

Gentiles don't celebrate the feast of unleavened bread.

Gentiles are not required to honor the Sabbath.

Gentiles cannot be circumcised.
 
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klutedavid

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You continue to twist what the Lord says, and casually.

--Did you not know that He was talking to Jews?

They lived under the administration of death and condemnation--if they sinned they had to pay for it, no ifs, ands, nor buts about it; and many sins required the death of the offender..... --Did you so soon forget, that Christ literally died for that reason? and it is by His death that He payed for our sins, once for all; and by His resurrection we are saved! --Did you forget these things?

--Did you forget that God drowned everyone, save Noah and His family?

--Did you forget that God killed everyone He brought out of Egypt, save their children and Kaleb and Joshua?

--Don't you understand, that the grace of God is so that we can keep His commands? --which are not burdensome, but to the wicked.

"Ominous", amazing: God's law is only ominous to those who want to do their own thing, their own way, above God's way: God is not the author of confusion but to those who love not the truth, viz:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." --2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

--His commands are easy to be understood, and give peace to the soul--not the peace the worldly know, but the peace that comes from knowing God: this is only possible for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Goodbye.
His new covenant commands are very easy to follow.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

There are people on this forum with the wrong set of commandments.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Ironic that my honest response about my deference to God's word, to you, sounds arrogant; this immediately after your absurd sarcasm: truly, I cannot help you.

Goodbye.

Well concerning the ways I determine if a member is truely speaking in the Spirit, I look for Humility and Love and Faithfulness.

My Father would never say 'I cant help you'...

And you said "those who obey God will hear that what I'm saying is not my own, but His.

Frankly again, all offerings from members are a mixture of their our own humanness and spiritual inspiration of one sort or another.

I immediately dismiss any claims to infallibility - in my understanding Jesus has not yet returned...
 
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Studyman

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Jesus broke the old testament sabbath requirement. Yes we should not forsake the gathering together but we can do it anytime. And we aren't going to hell if we miss a specific day.

First, there is no evidence in the Entire Bible that our High Priest, Christ Jesus, broke the Sabbath Commandment of God. This is one of many "winds of Doctrine" that permeate modern mainstream religions. And it is sad actually, that religious men would accuse Jesus of Sinning against His Father, although it is popular religious philosophy in the religions of this land I was born into..

He may have broken the religious traditions of the Pharisees, who Transgressed God's Commandments by their own Traditions. But I find no evidence that HE Broke God's Commandment regarding the Holy Sabbath of God.

I would be interested in seeing where you find this doctrine in the Scriptures.

I will wait for your Biblical support for this teaching.
 
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Studyman

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It was given to man (Adam in Hebrew) in Genesis, just as Yeshua said it was. It was to be A SIGN of the Mosaic covenant for the Jewish people.

True. But so as not to be confused, I don't find that it was Sign of the Levitical Covenant God made with Levi, "because of transgressions" till the Seed should come. Rather, it seems to have been a sign of the furtherance of the Covenant God made with Abraham. As it is certainly part of the Laws, Commandments, Statutes and Judgments of God Abraham is said to have obeyed. Not a sign of the Covenant God made with Levi, on Israel's behalf, 430 years after Abraham. (As Levi was not yet even born in Abraham's time)

I say this only because of the popular religious practice of not separating the two Covenants. (Which I don't see you do, but lots of others I do :) )
 
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27Then Jesus said to them, The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!”

Gen 2:1-3 the making of the Sabbath comes right after the making of mankind in Gen 1.

And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20: 10t the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
 
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